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Old 01-01-2012, 07:46 AM   #258
timmy tiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
This was wrote in 1672 and it says over 400 years. So either way still close to 1200. This is speaking of the Siouans that came to Virginia. Take note he also refers to the Clock they use being made of a Wheel and refrerences the Mexican indian's wheel clock.

Note: The Oenock is the ENO who lived by Granville, NC. The Oenock merged with the saponi to be universally called Saponi.

http://rla.unc.edu/Archives/accounts...dererText.html

--THE Discoveries of JOHN LEDERER from Virginia to the West of Carolina, and other parts of the Continent These parts were formerly possessed by the Tacci, alias Dogi but they are extinct; and the Indians now seated here, are distinguished into the several Nations of Mahoe, Nuntaneuck,aliàs Nuntaly, Nahyssan, Sapon, Managog, Mangoack, Akenatzy,and Monakin,&c. One Language is common to them all, though they differ in Dialects. The Indians now seated in these parts, are none of those which the English removed from Virginia, but a people driven by an Enemy from the Northwest, and invited to sit down here by an Oracle above four hundred years since, as they pretend: for the ancient inhabitants of Virginia were far more rude and barbarous, feeding onely upon raw flesh and fish, until these taught them to plant Corn, and shewed them the use of it. But before I treat of their ancient Manners and Customs, it is necessary I should shew by what means the knowledge of them hath been conveyed from former ages to posterity. Three ways they supply their want of Letters: first by Counters, secondly by Emblemes or Hieroglyphicks, thirdly by Tradition delivered in long Tales from father to son, which being children they are made to learn by rite.

An account of Time, and other things, they keep on a string or leather thong tied in knots of several colours. I took particular notice of small Wheels serving for this purpose among the Oenocks, because I have heard that the Mexicans use the same.--


It is funny you mention Aztecs Because people have refered to this Ohio Collins family as aztecs also.


Keep in mind the Melungeon's indian blood comes from Vardy Collins and shepard gibson. DNA tests prove Vardy is the same collins as the Ohio collins and the Virginia Collins and the Granville, NC Collins. So when this guy mentions Melungeons in the sense of indians, he is speaking about Vardy Collins and Shepard gibson's kids.


http://www.historical-melungeons.com/worlds_fair.html



--The Melungeons

A Strange and Little Known Tennessee People

Descendants of Aztecs and Pizarro’s Spaniards - Their Peculiar Manners and Customs - Speculations: “Who are These Peoplle?

(From a Special Contributor)

July 29, 1894


But investigation proves these people to be true descendants of the Aztecs, with the blood of Spain and Portugal,
Now, let us take all the evidences we have before us-the names, features, bearings, habits, fondness for bright clothing and ornaments, traits of character and disposition, relics yet preserved in their homes, although unassociated as links in the chain of a direct history of their ancestry in the minds of the present tribe or race of “Melungeons,” yet is convincing to me that they are the diect descendants of the Aztecs and Portuguese, the latter commingling with the Aztecs probably as far back as the sixteenth century-I say this because I believe I can furnish proof of evidence difficult to refute of this being true-tat the Aztecs welcomed among them these few adventurers and that the union of the two races never extended farther than a limited area and a proportionately small amount of mixed blood, these being confined to the present limits of Tennessee, and represented now by a few hundred “Melungeons.”

R. A. BOWIE--


There is more references however I am not getting into all of it. However I did prove my point that these siouans did get brought to Virginia from the North West, anyone who looks at a map will see Ohio is North West.

So timmy care to still comments about a subject you do not know about?

Oh and by the way I'm still waiting to see even one document on the three Saponi groups.

First of all I'm not arguring about the other Saponi's. I'm not a descendant. And they are State Recognized by the states they live in. The one's in OH Are NOT!!!

So that's your problem. I'm not worried about showing a document about one already seen by the state they reside in. I just know the ones in OH are FAKE!!! You can't fully document them as a tribe, only--maybe possibly one family if you're lucky. That's not a tribe. Get over it already. And it doesn't matter when he said it, you said 1700, now 1672, NEXT?LOL You keep changing it. Doesn't matter, it's just one person's word not a document and yes it's important to the tribe. But not a bunch of people running around trying to claim something that can't be. Not if the tribe left the state in the 1200 or even 1300's and then people show up 1850, wow who did they marry? How did they know one ancestor from 500 years before? Wouldn't have carried that far back then and your story is flat out wacked.

So what if they were brought to VA from OH, they left the state and from the time of the State's statehood, they were not ever documented as being in the State of OH so therefore the tribe left the state. ANy who remained left the tribe and aren't documented as being part of the tribe. The Court document you say shows someone was Indian, doesn't list what Tribe just that they were Indian. At least I didn't see it.

I do know what I'm talking about. It's you trying to twist it again like you always do. The facts are still the same:

1. There are NO State Recognized tribes in the state of OH

2. If the Saponi's had been in OH once, the tribe had left before it became a state and there's no documentation showing that they were actually in OH. Sure verbal history that is important to the tribe themselves, but has no basis for anyone to make up a tribe based on that. Especially since some families didn't show up until 1850's and OH became a state in 1803, where were they before 1850? So in 1850 they left the body of the tribe? so then still they left the tribe on their own. Either way, that's one family not a Tribe.

3. The OH Group of Saponi's is Fake and NOT State recognized or documented through the State at all. Means no Tribe, just a club!!!

4. You went in putting down Federally recognized tribes out of sour grapes and spoiled behavior and when someone shows you and tells you that something you want isn't real then you lower yourself to insults and arrogance and cocky behavior that you try to throw on someone else, but you now people now me here and can see through your arrogance. Well, if you have to go right ahead. I know the truth and so do you and everyone who reads these posts and the other's on the other thread. Yeah, you can go pout in a corner. The OH Saponi's are NOT a Tribe, they are a CLUB!!!! Nothing more

A CLUB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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