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Old 01-17-2012, 10:58 AM   #83
pigheaded
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Genealogy is not a laughing matter
Tracing your Ancestry is not a Laughing matter
This is serious business!
Having said that you must keep an open mind
Not all us descend from Famous Folks
Jesse James must have a Million Descendants but when you actually trace that is not so.

I got interested into doing this research about 7 years ago and along the way have met other people that have the same interest. I consider my self a thorough researcher because that is what it takes. You can't have a preconceived idea that you are going to find something sensational. I have traced my Paternal side and Maternal side.

Ok now we will talk about NDN ancestry
Specifically Cherokee there are Three Federally Recognized Tribes Two in Oklahoma and one in North Carolina
First Oklahoma:
Cherokee Nation and United Keetoowahs use the same roll the famous Dawes Roll of 1907. This is a listing of Cherokees that lived in Indian Territory as of the taking of the roll 1896 to 1907. Some popular misconception's about this roll
1) It was not Voluntary!
2) It is incomplete because people hid out in Arkansas to keep from signing up
3) People were arrested but they escaped and refused to sign up

The Dawes commission was assembled and traveled throughout the Indian Territory enrolling the different tribes. In our case they had the Records of the Cherokee Nation specifically The 1896 payment Roll the 1880 Citizenship rolls both done by the Cherokee Nation Themselves. So they already had a pretty clear picture of who was Cherokee and living in Indian Territory. Over 100,000 people showed up to enroll (HMMM) but only 40,000 were in fact enrolled. When you came to the commission they had a Commissioner,Interpreter a Scribe and a Representative from the Cherokee Nation usually WW Hastings. You sat down and they asked you questions who are you what are your parents etc etc. If you read through the Dawes packets it has a wealth of information. A snapshot of who a person was at the turn of the century. Notes would be written down this person was indeed found on previous rolls yes they had lived within the boundaries of the Cherokee Nation and No they had not left. Parents and Grandparents would be written down if they spoke English and what was there post office. A person would be used as a reference that would attest that they lived where they said they did and how long they knew them. Fairly extensive process to enroll a Family, in the case of my Grandma on my Father's side she was Born Nov 11 1907. So she was not enrolled but a too late. So her Parent's roll number was used so we go back another Generation to Josiah and Evabelle Hawkins roll number 18204 and 18205. Looking up their Dawes Packet you find something that dispels several myths about the Dawes Rolls. Josiah and Evabelle were not present at the time they were signed up by Mother in Law Sarah Swimmer!!
She testified that she was enrolling her daughter because she was sick and feeble at the time. They asked about Josiah (by Name) and she said he would not be coming in because he refused to enroll. They asked if he was Keetoowah she said yes... They enrolled both my Great Grandparents without them actually being present. They wrote down the fact that both were found on previous rolls and that they had both lived and were alive in the Cherokee Nation they wrote down the name of there Children as of that date and they were assigned Roll Numbers and Received 160 acres plus 40 for Homestead case closed NEXT...

Redbird Smith also refused to enroll and was traveling all over Indian Territory making speeches to keep people from enrolling
He was arrested in Muskogee and was enrolled along with his whole family and others.

This information is found in many places on the Internet and in the National Archives. The LDS have librarys all over the country that is open to the public and anyone can use for the most are free but if they have to send off for microfilm it ia a nominal fee.

If its there, you will find it, you do not need to go back hundreds of years but to 1900 Grandparents or even Great Grandparents age
I found my Great Great Granparents on the roll also plus Great Aunts, Uncles lots and lots of people you just have to look.
At the risk of starting up yet ANOTHER "discussion", Isn't this the point that we've all been trying to make? Where as one person who has little to no blood quantum, but lives within the community and is active within the community, could and would be considered Native. But in cases like this, (assuming the poster is NOT in a Native community, this is where, (I believe) blood quantum is important. Because here we have AGAIN, a 3G grandma or grandpa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by docgary View Post
With that I mind, I dug some more and found an ancestor, but it only makes me 1/32nd blood and one generation down from qualifying in the Eastern Band of Cherokee. So great, I can have the defects and weaknesses but not the CDIB card! Perfect!
@Josiah haven't you, on several occasion, stated qualifications of Cherokee enrollment is 1/4 blood quantum and lineage? And that all the same rules and regulations apply throughout all 3 tribes?

Adding to what comadre said, Mr. docgary, if I were you, I think I would be content with the defects and weaknesses and forget the CDIB card, that makes an NDN NOT!, that merely shows blood quantum, it does NOT make you a bonafide NDN. What does however make one an NDN is all the crap that comes with it. The parts that NewAgers and wannabes LOVE to over look. It's the stuff like, of the 10 childhood friends that you grew up with and were close to through school, 5 are dead, 2 are in prison, and 3 are still drinking and drugging and eventually to either the morge or prison, whichever comes first. May not be an issues so much here in the valley of Arizona, but up north and on reservations all over the US, but finding elders, children babies, grandmas and grandpas, auntie's and uncles sisters and brothers mothers and fathers, frozen to death because there is not sufficient enough heat, or because the power company took the meter, during the time of year that it is illegal to do, even when there are people in the home who have medical issues, http://www.powwows.com/gathering/showthread.php?t=57791 here a link to see for yourself. It also includes devastatingly aggressive alcoholism, domestic violence, murder rates higher than the national average, incest, rape. Too many times folks watch Dances with Wolves or Last of the Mohicans and believe the Hollywood romance of Native life. You really want to know what Native life is like watch this movie, it's called Mile Post 398. You can only buy it online, but you can watch the trailer here



All I'm saying is it's not a lucrative life to be Native, it comes with more hardships than romance, That's all I'm saying
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