Thread: We are Chiefs
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:00 PM   #25
RestlessN8iv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdrummer View Post
Fine... Just watch... Hopefully, we won't live to see the horrors coming to us.

Yes, I would have similar issues if other beliefs had taken power in alternate universes with the same consequences of war, pestilence, and diseases. However, Christianity takes the cake in the abuses that have occurred in the 2000 years. Native Americans are just among some of the more recent victims of it in its push to make this world a Christian world. Tribal Europeans were its victims 1,000-1,500 years before. The trouble I have is, people on the street come to me to try to convert me, saying "Well, the bible says..." NOBODY ELSE does this in my area. It is ALWAYS a Christian of some sort. AND, I was told by somebody in my company, which is in my store a Christian stronghold, a place where a lot of people are hired through references at church. This lady is from California, so when she first came to work with us, she was questioned about her long-term relationship with her boyfriend, like, "Why aren't you married?" She'd never really had someone question her back in California. I've never had a muslim, a hindu, or some other person ask me that. She recognizes that people here in Texas are more traditional as Christians, and they are very pushy about it. Fortunately for her, she has gotten a promotion that takes her back to California. I've had another coworker do the same thing to me, only we were discussing something very personal. She said, "I'd like you to come to our church, just to see the community of love. Just see what we do there." She REALLY tried to sneak her way in, and IMMEDIATELY, my guard went up. She has not talked to me in email since... People of other faiths, or non-Christians, are much better behaved than this, at least on the surface, BECAUSE they understand what people who push religion look like to them and how it makes them feel.

You need to read more carefully what I wrote, and I'll explain more carefully in the future. I first lived in a household where my Mom did not push me to be Christian once they realized I wasn't getting it (before they found out I was deaf). After my parents found out, it was "hands off" with me. Mom and Dad never did try to push me, even as Mom took me to church on the weekends she visited me. She was originally Quaker and really questioning her beliefs when I was 9-13 years old, so one year, she was Prebyterian, another year, she tried Catholicism until she heard the claim from a priest that "We are all such bad people, we don't deserve anything." Mom let a lot of that go in the last 20 years of her life and became content in life once she stopped questioning things, trying to make religion so important, and just accepted herself as a human being. Mom may have reverted back to Quaker in the days before she died, but she didn't say anything and didn't indicate that she was about to go (died the day after I talked to her over the phone), so I don't know that for a fact.

And in case you you think I have Hollywood visions of Native Americans, I'll set you straight. I've read that when the whites came here, NAs were found to be warring with each other, as you would have found in Tribal Europe before the Roman conquests came about. There were things that Cherokees had supposedly done to prisoners of war. I have to accept that there are things that I don't like about what they did to some people or some aspects of the traditional, pre-Contact beliefs, but those are the facts, and I have to accept that. The good with the bad. To live closer to the earth is hard, as you don't have AC, you don't have credit to buy tools you don't have, etc., so it's not pastoral and easy like people have it today.
First of all this conversation will go nowhere so long as Christians, and Natives and any othergroup for that matter are being lumped into generic piles. I know, stereotypes are a fun and easy shortcut to thinking, but nothing healthy will come of it.

Christianity is not bad in and of itself. Like most things in this wold it is dangerous in the wrong hands.

An easy mistake to make is to assume that because the most obnoxious Christians are the loudest, they must speak for all Christians. This simply is not true. There are many mild mannered Christians who don't spend every waking hour thinking "convert teh heathans" or "OMG the gays!" They are simply harder to spot as unlike their obnoxious counterparts these people have the decency to not jam their religion down your throat. It also doesnt help that few news outlets want soundbites from sane Chrostians, they want the foaming-at-the-mouth "you're going to Hell" Christian,that's what gets people's attention. Every group has its obnoxious members be it a religion, political party, vegitarians, or Twilight fans it is important not to judge the rest by the actions or words of a few.

The same can be said of atrocities carried out in the name of God. Similar horrors have been carried out in the name of many gods, political views, science, and lets not forget the old favorote. " for your own good." Christianity is no exception.

Incidentally these crimes against humanity usually begin with an over simplistic view of a group of people coupled with a "us good, them bad" style of thinking. Lables are a very effective means of calling people to arms for all of the wrong reasons. When you lable someone you no longer see them as people with thoughts feelings hopes and fears. They instead become "them".

That's what angered me about the band in question. How many Indians do they know? What makes them think we can all be lumped together in the same category? A good trip around these forums should be enough to tell anyone we don't all agree on everything, but I'm guessing they've never visited this site. I'm guessing they know only what they've seen on television. And I'm guessing that's what makes them think they can "speak for the Indian".
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