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Old 02-11-2018, 08:13 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
Please provide a source/s for the quotes: "A native or inhabitant of any of the countries of North, South, or Central America" and "Relating to or denoting the continents of America."

If you are asserting I claimed that is some way descendants of indigenous people are inauthentic, that is not true. I was trying to understand why some folks seemed quite exercised by the conventional American English usage of Native American.
I got the exact definition from google's dictionary; you just google "define American" and those are some of its definitions. You can find similar definitions here as well:

American | Define American at

American - Dictionary of English

I'm not asserting anything specifically against you. As I mentioned in my previous post, I at least implied challenging/debating anyone on anything as its basis. I mainly intended to expound on most of you and the others' responses. Nonetheless, I was hoping for some discussion to continue as well.

This is far from a settled fact as far as many physical and social scientists are concerned.
I'm aware there's still some serious disputes over the objectivity of "race."

I personally do believe it exists to a certain degree though.

Citations? Citations from peer reviewed journals?
I've witness such studies and data in too vast in total to list them all, so I'll just share a few here on what I base my claims on:

DNA Analysis Shows That Native American Genealogy Is One of the Most Unique in the World

"We analyzed human molecular diversity at 109 DNA markers, namely 30 microsatellite loci and 79 polymorphic restriction sites (restriction fragment length polymorphism loci) in 16 populations of the world. By partitioning genetic variances at three hierarchical levels of population subdivision, we found that differences between members of the same population account for 84.4% of the total, which is in excellent agreement with estimates based on allele frequencies of classic, protein polymorphisms. Genetic variation remains high even within small population groups. On the average, microsatellite and restriction fragment length polymorphism loci yield identical estimates. Differences among continents represent roughly 1/10 of human molecular diversity, which does not suggest that the racial subdivision of our species reflects any major discontinuity in our genome.

Guido Barbujani, Arianna Magagni, Eric Minch and L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Proc Nat. Acad. Sci. 1997 April, 94 (9) 4516-4519.

Be very very careful of the political implications claiming race as a genetic construct. Without a nuanced understanding of the relationship of expression of these alleles to human characteristics and potential, the genetic variation between populations can be used to assert group superiority. Scientific ideas rarely survive popularization without distortion and significant loss of subtlety. Embracing a genetic us/them model is like falling in love with a sword someone will get cut.

Careful, careful. This way lies the skin color charts and diagrams like this:
It seems your main concern is that my claims will lead to racist ideology.

I don't find race solely a biological construct. I find it both a social and biological (only to a certain extent) construct.

When I claim there are biological implications involved in race, I mean this mostly in terms of phenotype and "unaffecting," but observable differences in DNA as well. When it comes to genetics, I do not believe in any DNA differences as evidence for racial supremacy, whether it be regarding intelligence, physical prowess, etc... I've never witness such anyhow.

The DNA differences between races I've noticed from the studies are more about expressionless genes, haplogroups, and other differences that serve little to no function and impact.

Mind you I'm largely against racism, but I don't see anything racist and wrong with believing expressionless, but observable differences between races as long as you do not involve notions of superiority and hatred. In other words, I find you can still acknowledge the existence of race without racism involved. Nonetheless, I also find racism and anti-racism will always exists whether or not genetic studies confirm exclusive differences (especially expressionless ones) between significant populations.

Originally Posted by gilisi View Post
This is where I see a difference in our ways....

What language was that in, claiming rights to the continent?

Pre colonial histories among the over 500 tribes tell some very different stories.

The Comanche, the Apache, the Kiowa, the Cheyenne, the Cherokee and so many others all had their own areas, hunting grounds, etc. In other words, before the white man came there were no Aztec or Mayan temples on our lands. In fact, some of our older guys might even remember stories from older guys they knew about some of our own inter-tribal wars.

I don't know alot about Los Aztecas, or Los Mayas. From what I hear they are strong people who maintain their own ways and identities in Mexico. In fact I was able to watch -my first time!- Aztec dancers at a powwow recently. They were pretty amazing! They were respectful.

If I was to visit your peoples land, or your website LOL, I would be respectful. So far I haven't seen any from you.

Oh whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... I forgot to mention I don't entirely agree with their approach with open borders based solely on Native American ancestry either.

The only reason I posted that Mexica Movement poster as further support for my claim of physiological similarity between Native Americans... NOT for advocating any sort of agenda at all.

As for "Nican Tlaca," it is supposed to literally translate to something like "We the people here" in Nahuatl. The movement promotes the label as something ALL Native Americans should identify as in terms of race. I never sided with this.

"or your website LOL"

Are you referring to the Mexica Movement's website? If so, you do realize that I'm not the owner, right? I already mentioned I disapprove of that movement overall; I'm definitely no supporter of theirs.

Still believe I'm disrespectful somehow?
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