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Old 04-09-2004, 12:38 PM   #23
WhoMe
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties
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Thanks Mountain Dew. I appreciate you sharing this account on pws.com. I know you are very knowledgeable of Kiowa Culture and History (We know each other *L) Huaco Tanks, TX?
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I met with the Kiowa Museum Commitee two months ago specifically concerning the origins of the gourd clan and the three other active warrior societies. Members of the Kiowa Gourd Clan and Kiowa Tia Piah Society of Carnegie sit on that committee.

From what they said, it is agreed that a Kiowa men's warrior society called the Tdienpaygah (Gourd Clan), began in the mid-1700's. "This is the time the story of the Red Wolf originated."

This occurred when the Kiowa were in transition from where they were during this time period - in and around the Black Hills of present day South Dakota.

The Cheyenne Bowstring connection occurred almost a century later.

Also I have a question,

In 1833, the Osage came to Kiowa country, killed and beheaded over 100 Kiowa women, children and old men at Cut Throat Gap.

In 1835, the Kiowa were invited to sign a treaty at Camp Holmes near the present Lexington, Oklahoma. This treaty was monumental because it included the former land owners - the Kiowa, Comanche and Wichita - and several tribes who were recently removed to Indian Territory - Osage, Quapaw, Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek and Seneca.

The Kiowa were the only one of these invited tribes that did not attend because the Osage were going to be there and "the Cut Throat gap incident was too fresh in their minds."

My point is, do you think the Kiowa leadership at that time(including the husbands and sons of those beheaded) would be taking advice from the Osage, just five years after the massacre? You as well as I know - the Kiowas have never forgotten this massacre even up to this day*
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