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Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Pow Wow Talk 41st Annual Haliwa-Saponi Powwow April 14-16, 2006 41st Annual Haliwa-Saponi Powwow April 14-16, 2006

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Old 04-23-2006, 09:59 PM   #101
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I just want to say that I was at the pow wow the whole weekend and had fun. However, I do not think it's fair to say that most of the judges were not from NC and didn't know anyone. As a spectator that weekend I seen plenty of judges from that area and from NC and that were friends with dancers that were in the catagory that they were judging. And some of the catagories had the same judges back to back. I am a dancer myself and I have been a judge. I think that dancers should be judged on their style and grace. And on how good they dance, stay on beat, honor their honor beats, and stopping at the end of the song. And I really think that alot of judges these days , not saying particulary this pow wow, place dancers based on how their outfit looks alone. Not based on dancing and how the person acts in their outfit and inside of the arena. I also think that alot of people do not know what to look for in dancing while judging but if they know the person or if that person has a "name" then they place them. Which to me isn't the right way. But hey like I said I had fun but just thought I would throw that in the mix.
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Old 04-23-2006, 10:08 PM   #102
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onegoofynd,

Yes, how HOW PETTY INDEED!!! You say you were here Sat and Sun, so were you a dancer, singer or a bleacher judge?? As for the quality of dancers out there... all dancers are good dancers. And on any given Sunday an "average dancer can rise to the occasion and out dance a "champion". That is called Competition. Is this not what we teach the little ones?? I have taught dancers that on Sunday when the winners are named, if they are not in that group to be proud that they did their best and had a great time.

As for the judges... I thought the Head Judge did a good job picking judges. Obviously you would have done differently, but then again, you were not picked as a judge. Maybe you have not been to our powwow before, but we have a good time and we represent our folks well. So, we have a big family and alot of friends. As a matter of fact alot of dancers and singers that come from far away to visit become family thus making the picking of impartial judges just that much harder. Our Head Judge did his best to pick judges that had little or no ties to the community. Had he picked home folks then you would be complaining of us choosing our own winners. Judges are individuals "what were the Judges looking for?" Only they can answer that for you. I can tell you that I have confidence in our Head Judge to select judges that are knowlegeable of what they are called to do.

I know two of the traditional crow women and they always dance well and are a pleasure to watch. They have placed here many times before. Are they in the "in crowd"? I would say that they are a part of our family.

Your whining is very petty. I always welcome anyone and everyone to come and have a good time with us but if you do not like how we do things... STAY HOME!!!
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Old 04-24-2006, 12:20 AM   #103
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Well.... Well Okay then I'll bite

I am not criticizing anyone inparticular but Come on now we all know how these powwows go. One weekend your in and the next your out. Most of the time it is not a matter of how good a dancer you are but how many times you have placed in the past or other factors like your name or who you know. People say they pick the best dancers but that is only their opinion it does not mean it is right! Let's face it how many judges have a degree in dance or are dance professionals? Exactly not many or 1 out of 20. One thing I can tell you all is that judging is based on arbitrary opinions. People are human beings and are not perfect so ofcourse sometimes there are going to be mistakes made (not the fault of the head judge) and bad choices are inevitable to happen because there is no real criteria for the judges to follow. As I have said before the Head judge has the right to hold a meeting with the people he/she is asking to judge and inform them of the rules and tell them what to look for as far as the technique of the dance, the style & appropriateness of the regalia, attitude, timing, rhythm, etc. There is no overall standard of excellence when it comes to powwow dancing. Judges basically pick who they know or do the best they can to choose but as I said there is no real standard or rule as to what they should really be looking for. In my experience most people need to be told or taught what is appropriate or they will just pick the prettiest colors or what they think is cool. Another thing..........People let the wins go to their heads, some dancers think they are better than others because of their "socalled" wins, some people have refused to dance at certain powwows because they are fixed or they try to fix them and have their friends judge them. I hope there are others out there like me who are going to keep on dancing because they love to dance and could care less whether they place or not. What matters is how you play the game, not whether you won or not. Hold up my ninja master stuff is coming out... ....If you can hold your head up regardless after the powwow then you are a real champion! Champions do what amateurs won't ....like learn a totally different style of dancing from a different nation other than their own or they keep on powwowin' even though that person seems to never place, when they know they should! It is called video tape study them & learn, then ask as many questions as you can before criticizing someone just because you think you know it all. I usually do not comment this much but the pettyness & bull headedness just really got on my nerves. We should be trying to come together and figure this stuff out together not be at each other's throats, that is beyond petty and by the way there were plenty of "good dancers" that competed that did not place but that is how the cookie crumbles.....Most of us deal with it and move on that is the best advice I can give ....... Later
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Old 04-24-2006, 01:07 AM   #104
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Dance Judges

One Goofy ND, well your screen name says it ALL!!! I was one of the dancers at the pow-wow, and a judge and one of the winners. I thought Marty did a very good job as Head judge, and I also have been a Head judge . You will never please everyone, no matter how hard you try!! Out of all the 68 winners, I could only count about 10 that I know for sure, that were not!!! not!!! from N.C. In my 30 years plus of dancing at pow-wows you will always have WINNERS and WHINNERS and maybe even some WEINERS too!!!!
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Old 04-24-2006, 10:22 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmy
glad u think its funny... when people do his peoples' dances wrong. im glad it amuses u



taani, to me his outfit looked more like an old time round bustle from pictures ive seen. ill see if i can find some.


at least he tries to help people when he sees something askew, instead of letting the wrong things perpetuate. he has never lied to anyone about these dances he teaches what was taught to him. what do u need a resume? then hed be criticized for name dropping. he has well know chicken dancers and round bustlers in his family and he has learned right along side of them

he doesnt want these dancers to be laughed at or their outfits to be taken away. which has happened to people dancing wrong or using the wrong things on their outfits where he comes from.

there were a couple of people watching who knew what to judge 4 in chicken and round bustle and i heard them ask what he was doing. but since u didnt believe him maybe ask nakia williamson ( a well known round bustler), or rooster topsky, dustin whitford, guy fox, clinton croff, sheldon scalplock (all chicken dancers from "out west")
So, you think it's "his people's" dances that I'm laughing at huh?? First of all since when does he speak for ALL of "his people?" Heck yeah, show me that resume!! I wouldnt mind seeing it!
You wanna know what amuses me?? I won't hold back, you want the truth, I'll get it out there: I've seen your man on here before running his mouth and running people down for the way they dance. Does Brooklyn ring a bell? Now Hollister? This isn't "teaching" in any tribe I know. It' SOOO easy for people like him and you for that matter, to hide behind your computer and "preach" on what is right and what is wrong. If you believe in what you're talking about then approach these people!! Have you pulled them aside discreatly at a pow-wow and talked to them about "your teachings?" Have approached them with tobacco and shared your knowledge??? I can bet you $$$$ neither one of you would have the nerve to face these people and tell them like you tell them here!!! That's the part that amuses me!

Some key points: He isnt "helping", he's ridiculing! He is sharing what "was taught to him", teachings vary from family to family....even person to person. That's something important to remember!! Then you talk about how things happen "where he comes from".......My point exactly. Where did both of these incidents happen??? Just because teachings are different here, does NOT make them wrong!!

This is nothing that I would not say TO YOU if I saw you somewhere. I would go about it differently, in a more respectable way but YOU wanted to make it public. Remember, you drew the claws first!!!
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Old 04-24-2006, 11:32 AM   #106
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Travelling is good. Dancing is good. Placing is good.

Being selected by judges who do not know you/ have never ever seen you dance before is an honor.

Whining is not good.

Just dance.
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Old 04-24-2006, 12:20 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii
Travelling is good. Dancing is good. Placing is good.

Being selected by judges who do not know you/ have never ever seen you dance before is an honor.

Whining is not good.

Just dance.
Kiwehnzii....You're a man of few words & great Knowledge...you ROCK!!! he's right people!

I had a kick *** time at Hollister!!! It was so good to see so many dancers fill that arena! Marty you did an excellent job, Sandon is a future MC Great...watch out for this man folks, he'll be comin to a powwow near you!

As for the winners...CONGRATS to all!! There's always going to be someone who thinks the results are unfair, that stems from bias, hatred, jealousy, etc....but know that you won because you were chosen by the judges & thats how it goes! You win some, you lose some, but you should always keep dancing!!
A few shout outs for the winners, Crystal i'm so happy for ya girl...i love dancing w/you & you were JAMMIN at Hollister, way too go! Same w/Mrs. Kline, it was an honor to be in the cirlce w/you!
I enjoy watching Josh Richardson dance, he's a Champion on the rise, and i mean this next comment w/nothing but good intensions, my only suggestion is Josh, luv, please incorporate some traditional double beat moves into your dance when your category is given a double beat....you'd be a killer at "double beat crow hop"! i know ya would!! :) I love watchin u jam out!

As for Yahsti, big ups for gettin out there & tryin a new style....it takes a lot for someone to switch categories & come into their own in that style...it takes time & no one is a "CHAMPION" fresh out the gate, so i'm proud of you bro for tryin somethin new.....keep at it.

Once again, Congrats to all the winners, Way to go Powwow Committee....and i just wanted to tell my NC Fam & Friends that i really enjoyed seein' all of ya'll....you guys are just too darn good to us & we truly appreicate everything....THANK YOU!! We'll see ya'll down in LUMBEE ready to do it again!

;)
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Old 04-24-2006, 12:36 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndneyez
So, you think it's "his people's" dances that I'm laughing at huh?? First of all since when does he speak for ALL of "his people?" Heck yeah, show me that resume!! I wouldnt mind seeing it!
You wanna know what amuses me?? I won't hold back, you want the truth, I'll get it out there: I've seen your man on here before running his mouth and running people down for the way they dance. Does Brooklyn ring a bell? Now Hollister? This isn't "teaching" in any tribe I know. It' SOOO easy for people like him and you for that matter, to hide behind your computer and "preach" on what is right and what is wrong. If you believe in what you're talking about then approach these people!! Have you pulled them aside discreatly at a pow-wow and talked to them about "your teachings?" Have approached them with tobacco and shared your knowledge??? I can bet you $$$$ neither one of you would have the nerve to face these people and tell them like you tell them here!!! That's the part that amuses me!

Some key points: He isnt "helping", he's ridiculing! He is sharing what "was taught to him", teachings vary from family to family....even person to person. That's something important to remember!! Then you talk about how things happen "where he comes from".......My point exactly. Where did both of these incidents happen??? Just because teachings are different here, does NOT make them wrong!!

This is nothing that I would not say TO YOU if I saw you somewhere. I would go about it differently, in a more respectable way but YOU wanted to make it public. Remember, you drew the claws first!!!
Sorry i have never preached on what was right or wrong i have said what i think or what i saw.

just like when people see jingle dress dancers hip hop dancing and get outraged cuz they look like they are dancing on a pole. or when people think a powwow was run funny. or when people do stange things when gourd dancing. there are basics for all dancing, jingle, chicken, straight, traditional. u take those basics and build.

this is a forum to discuss what goes on in and around powwow country. im sorry if u feel this is sacred grounds where no one is allowed to speak their mind. i also dont see u patroling every thread watching out for when people have something to say about some1

in real life louie has talked to yahsti, billy, keith and others about chicken dancing and round bustling. he answers anyones questions and poses ones he feels he needs to ask, like where they learned to dance from or who taught them.

as for when outfits or things were taken
Rocky Boy Powwow 2005, Rocky Boy MT (just in case u r unfamiliar with this powwow or its location- there are several chicken dance societies where they feel it was started there) a young man who carried and wore items from these societies, was asked about the 3 items he carried; had not the correct answers; had 3 items taken away
if u need more explaination feel free to pm
Kyi-Yo 2005 a young man danced with his otter pelt (which is a symbol of a society) and a few members of the same societies asked him about his pelt and then took it from him.

He has asked his uncles is he is wrong for explaining to people or getting mad when stuff isnt correct. and i feel bad for him cuz hes not used to the east coast, his uncles just tell him to keep doing it right and maybe with time they will learn

as for louies resume if u want to know it u send him a pm im sure hed be happy to tell u his society and his family tree or whatever u need to know to feel like he knows what hes talking about. then maybe u might wanna ask paul to add that to the profile so that when people question whether some1 can answer questions about styles of dance u can just click on the link and have that little nifty resume

and im sure when he gets to a computer he can answer whatever u have sent him
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Old 04-24-2006, 12:50 PM   #109
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hollister powwow

as ms. bp said i had fun also. what a way to bring in my birthday...

it is always a pleasure to see the OE u all dance beautifully and now we have one more crow lady to show us her stuff :) (ms OB)

Kit was amazing. smooth as always. fancy and mens tradish always great to watch...

paige great dancin out there. :) *wink wink*

see every1 down the road
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Old 04-24-2006, 12:56 PM   #110
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Emmy, I believe I made my point.

Dance hard Yahsti! Like Bux said, "nobody is perfect fresh out of the gate."
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Old 04-24-2006, 05:55 PM   #111
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Still just opinions!!!

Yeah...I agree that it takes time to become good at a particular style of dance, well then work on it. Which is what most of us do. Get everything you need beadwork, great outfit, practice, etc. & then just jam out.... but some of these people do not even come close to resembling the dance style it looks more like modern dance and I can professionally speak on that. Give me a break. No matter how you look at this it is still a matter of opinion and opinions can be challenged. There are many different styles and it seems that every category becomes more contemporary as we go on. The dancers in the grass dance category jammed out yes but DREW..... you just go boy everybody was talking about how well you danced that weekend. Keep it up!!!!!!!
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Old 04-24-2006, 06:21 PM   #112
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[QUOTE=blah blah blah!!!

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Old 04-24-2006, 11:01 PM   #113
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bla bla bla......

What quote & who are you referring to????????????????
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Old 04-24-2006, 11:12 PM   #114
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WOOOOOOOOAH!

Somebody's trying to get tough with my girl Ndneyez?????

I'll just say this, she can hold her own. She's intelligent and can handle the debate but I've seen her handle her stuff before... be careful with your mouth.
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Old 04-25-2006, 10:47 AM   #115
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this is exactly why i don't powwow..........
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Old 04-25-2006, 11:09 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudN9ne
are you sure you're blackfeet taani? old style chicken didn't have bustles or all that stuff yahsti had, plus he wasn't really chickening he was more like jumping around with some bustles on. make sure you check you're stuff and facts before you go off with that ugly attitude you have!!!! i know because i have asked the best, next time you go to blackfeet take some time to ask someone like ray blackwater, john ground, and sheldon scalplock. they'll tell you right!!!

Okay, so I've been away and come back to this?!?!!!? OMG
I don't quite understand why you degrade ppl for trying. Are you best? Are you the greatest of all time? Oh Lord, I'll hold my tongue otherwise my attitude will come out and believe you me you will know the diff.

I never said he was perfect at it nor did i state that he should have placed. He was told and given permission to 'chicken' by a highly respectable individual who is no longer on this earth.
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Old 04-25-2006, 12:37 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taani
Okay, so I've been away and come back to this?!?!!!? OMG
I don't quite understand why you degrade ppl for trying. Are you best? Are you the greatest of all time? Oh Lord, I'll hold my tongue otherwise my attitude will come out and believe you me you will know the diff.

I never said he was perfect at it nor did i state that he should have placed. He was told and given permission to 'chicken' by a highly respectable individual who is no longer on this earth.
no where does he say he is the greatest. and he never said he was the best he said he asked the best. which is an opinion of his of dancers in powwow country.

the point i think louie was trying to make was that his bustles where more of round bustle than chicken. and his movements were not quite what chicken dancers or round bustlers do.

he may not have said it right or to ur liking. he stated his feelings or what he saw. he spoke to yahsti.

like all other styles of dance there are things should be done and not done. u dont see traditional ladies spinning and and kicking their legs up like fancy shawl, u dont see jingle dancers doing flips like mens fancy, u dont see any women in miniskirts and haltertops.
we take what we learn and make it our own but within reason. at the risk of being chastized. like a a friend said when we were talking about otter caps and straight dancing. he said, "People take the basics of a dance and the take parts(meaning the otter caps) from people they see along the trail. well when i know its not right i can ask them who gave them the right to wear it. i can also take it away from them if inclined to do so." can he speak 4 all comanches? can an ojibkwe speak for all jingle dressing ladies? can a crow voice their opinion on moves during a double beat?
if they see something not right that belongs to them (their people), do they...?

thats all i really have to say on this all
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Old 04-25-2006, 01:03 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmy
no where does he say he is the greatest. and he never said he was the best he said he asked the best. which is an opinion of his of dancers in powwow country.

the point i think louie was trying to make was that his bustles where more of round bustle than chicken. and his movements were not quite what chicken dancers or round bustlers do.

he may not have said it right or to ur liking. he stated his feelings or what he saw. he spoke to yahsti.

like all other styles of dance there are things should be done and not done. u dont see traditional ladies spinning and and kicking their legs up like fancy shawl, u dont see jingle dancers doing flips like mens fancy, u dont see any women in miniskirts and haltertops.
we take what we learn and make it our own but within reason. at the risk of being chastized. like a a friend said when we were talking about otter caps and straight dancing. he said, "People take the basics of a dance and the take parts(meaning the otter caps) from people they see along the trail. well when i know its not right i can ask them who gave them the right to wear it. i can also take it away from them if inclined to do so." can he speak 4 all comanches? can who me speak for all kiowa goard dancers? can an ojibkwe speak for all jingle dressing ladies? can a crow voice their opinion on moves during a double beat?
if they see something not right that belongs to them (their people), do they...?

thats all i really have to say on this all
From Yahsti....

First of all I NEVER spoken with Louie NEVER EVER EVER.

If anybody has anything to say about my dancing, say it to my face don't wait til you get behind the computer and hide yourself. As far as style of the dancing I was doing, that was my style. And if you are a true dancer, anybody should know individuality is what dance is all about. I've taken a style of dance that has been given to me and I dance the way I know how to dance it. Anyone has any questions, see me on the circuit, not on the computer.

Thank you to all those that support me in my change of style at this time.

For Louie, If you keep traveling the path that you're on, your circle will come back on you. Just remember!

Last edited by taani; 04-25-2006 at 01:17 PM..
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:03 PM   #119
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he said s[h]e said
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:19 PM   #120
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