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ojibwecommodbod 01-18-2007 06:11 PM

*attention White People Who Powow!*
 
YOUR DOING IT ALL WRONG! YOU CAN NOW GO BACK TO BOWLING, DART LEAGUE, AND SOFTBALL, AND PLEASE LEAVE THE POWOWS TO US NDNS!


thought it was worthy enough to start a new thread. some come on all you pigmently-challenged powow peoples, what ya gunna say now?

attn moderators! please dont move this thread to the "native issues" section. you let the weirdos keep their posts here, so u should let a young brother speak his mind here.

Ahinawake 01-18-2007 06:24 PM

Quote:

YOUR DOING IT ALL WRONG! YOU CAN NOW GO BACK TO BOWLING, DART LEAGUE, AND SOFTBALL, AND PLEASE LEAVE THE POWOWS TO US NDNS!


thought it was worthy enough to start a new thread. some come on all you pigmently-challenged powow peoples, what ya gunna say now?

attn moderators! please dont move this thread to the "native issues" section. you let the weirdos keep their posts here, so u should let a young brother speak his mind here.
All I'm going to say is that I understand why you feel that way. You and a lot of indians. It's complicated...at some powwows I feel like I belong. At others I feel like I just need to leave. I wish things weren't so complicated. You might do well to remember, though, that someone who looks white could very well be half or 25% Indian...it doesn't seem wise to me to make vast generalizations based on the way somebody looks.

Sleeping Bear 01-18-2007 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwecommodbod (Post 856204)
YOUR DOING IT ALL WRONG! YOU CAN NOW GO BACK TO BOWLING, DART LEAGUE, AND SOFTBALL, AND PLEASE LEAVE THE POWOWS TO US NDNS!


thought it was worthy enough to start a new thread. some come on all you pigmently-challenged powow peoples, what ya gunna say now?

attn moderators! please dont move this thread to the "native issues" section. you let the weirdos keep their posts here, so u should let a young brother speak his mind here.

Why?

Blackbear 01-18-2007 06:52 PM

having gotten the attention of a moderator, let me then make a disclaimer for this thread....

The opinions expressed here by ojibwaycommodbod are'nt necessarily those of every single north american aboriginal person that walks on the earth, and can only be held to this being of his/her own opinion and does not represent any formal group in any legal arena.
Ok having said that, go about your discussion, keep it nice so we don't have to remove the thread. Thanks!

Ahinawake 01-18-2007 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackbear (Post 856218)
having gotten the attention of a moderator, let me then make a disclaimer for this thread....

The opinions expressed here by ojibwaycommodbod are'nt necessarily those of every single north american aboriginal person that walks on the earth, and can only be held to this being of his/her own opinion and does not represent any formal group in any legal arena.
Ok having said that, go about your discussion, keep it nice so we don't have to remove the thread. Thanks!

Having met several others here, that is sorta what i figured. :)

ojibwecommodbod 01-18-2007 07:11 PM

why?
 
cuz you are disrespecting us by thinking u know what u are doing! thats why. the ndns u met here that think its ok for anybody to suit up and dance and/or sing, are prolly some new age friggin cherokee from virginia. (lotsa legit ndns there)

the powows u dont feel comfortable at are probably powows that are run correctly and frown upon wanabees.

everybody is welcome at a powow, just dont think you "belong" there with an outfit on, or sittin at some crazy a$$ drum. stand on the sidelines, gaze at the indins, and pay the folks u take pictures of.

and i know, alot of people are nice here, but whoever knows me, knows i'm nice as long as u know yer place. u dont see me coming to bowling league telling you how to bowl.

and of course i got a moderators attention, the title speaks out to most of you mods.

ojibwecommodbod 01-18-2007 07:17 PM

if u are dont worry about it
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahinawake (Post 856209)
All I'm going to say is that I understand why you feel that way. You and a lot of indians. It's complicated...at some powwows I feel like I belong. At others I feel like I just need to leave. I wish things weren't so complicated. You might do well to remember, though, that someone who looks white could very well be half or 25% Indian...it doesn't seem wise to me to make vast generalizations based on the way somebody looks.



if you are truly native, always been native, and know that you are native, then u shouldnt worry about it. the ones whose gramma was a cherokee from pennsylvania and other questionable territories are the ones i'm speaking of. the indians with chiefs that look like friggin mountain men are the ones in question. apply to you?

Blackbear 01-18-2007 07:19 PM

So what's wrong with Skins that bowl??

... hey wait.. take the skin heads bowling.. take them bowling! I love that song!

But no seriously... is there somethign wrong with indians bowling? You gotta let me know now because we go neon bowling at least twice a month and I need to know is this seriously a non indian thing that I should stay away from????

Dude, the non native dancers are'nt going to quit just because you make a post... same as the wannabes don't stop claiming indian ancestry just because you prove they don't have any... take Ward Churchhill for example. Lighten up, the disclaimer was supposed to make people laugh.

ojibwecommodbod 01-18-2007 07:25 PM

but at least they will know their place
 
no they might not quit, probably wont. but at least they will know how us young, real, powow ndns feel. thats my intention here. leave this post here for awhile and you will see i'm not alone on this. and thank you to whoever "stickied" this thread.

Blackbear 01-18-2007 07:27 PM

Well I'll leave it unless it breaks guidelines and gets nasty.. but that's just me... can't guarantee what other moderators might do, I don't speak for them.

Ahinawake 01-18-2007 07:27 PM

Quote:

cuz you are disrespecting us by thinking u know what u are doing! thats why. the ndns u met here that think its ok for anybody to suit up and dance and/or sing, are prolly some new age friggin cherokee from viginia. (lotsa legit ndns there)
What if there was a "white" person there who DID know what they were doing? Maybe they had Indian ancestors or something. Maybe they have worked very hard to learn the dance steps. Would you have a problem with them? The ones who don't know what they're doing, but think they do bug me, too, and I look white, for goodness sake. Sometimes during intertribals and round dances, I join in for the fun and good times. I'm learning the fancy shawl dance...but I am humble enough to recognize that thus far I stink at it, and need to practice more before even TRYING it in public. You know? So I know where you're coming from on this. But I just wanted to point out that some white people are truly genuine about their love of the culture, and yearning to find out more about who they are. Not all of them are just trying to play Indian.

Quote:

the powows u dont feel comfortable at are probably powows that are run correctly and frown upon wanabees.
*nods*Those they think are wannabees, at least...if I didn't have reason to believe I have indian blood, and if my heart didn't tell me that I needed to return to the culture that my grandparents shunned, in fear of persecution, then you can bet I wouldn't be at powwows, trying to learn all I can. I'm not a wannabee.

Quote:

everybody is welcome at a powow, just dont think you "belong" there with an outfit on, or sittin at some crazy a$$ drum. stand on the sidelines, gaze at the indins, and pay the folks u take pictures of.
I wear moccasins and street clothes to powwows...and I don't sit at a drum pretending to know what I'm doing. I attend as a respectful spectator...

Quote:

and i know, alot of people are nice here, but whoever knows me, knows i'm nice as long as u know yer place. u dont see me coming to bowling league telling you how to bowl.
You're saying indians should stand on the sidelines and gaze at the white people bowling and pay them to take pictures? :rolleyes: Because that's where your logic is taking you...most white people who attend powwows are there to learn. Most of them have not grown up in Indian culture. So I think it would be fair to say that a white person should under no circumstances tell any Indian how to do anything at a powwow...however, there would be exceptions for some people, I'm sure, like Indians who look white, adopted white people who have grown up in Indian culture, like adopted ones, etc.

Ahinawake 01-18-2007 07:36 PM

Quote:

if you are truly native, always been native, and know that you are native, then u shouldnt worry about it. the ones whose gramma was a cherokee from pennsylvania and other questionable territories are the ones i'm speaking of. the indians with chiefs that look like friggin mountain men are the ones in question. apply to you?
Well, since it seems you will need to conduct a background check in order to judge me, the answer is no. My great-grandmotherx3 was the last full-blood Cherokee in our family. She was NOT a Cherokee princess, don't even think that's where i'm coming from. lol, I noticed your signature, and I know what you mean...countless people who I went to for advice during my early days of research were just as white as I am, and went on and on about their Cherokee princess grandmothers. It took a trip to the reservation to learn the truth. Anyway, my great-great-great grandmother's people were from the Smoky Mountains. They migrated to Tennessee several years before the 1830's (Trail of Tears era). It is for this reason they are not found on the Baker roles. They renounced their American Indian-ness, and our family has grown up without a clue about anything Indian since. I heard a few stories from my grandmother, and decided to start researching about our family.

My greatx3 grandparents on my paternal grandfather's side were Muskogee Creek, according to my Georgia relatives, but I have yet to investigate this claim further.

At this point, I don't really know what I am. Thankfully, there are many supportive people around me who are helping me found out who I am...but right now, I really don't know.

Sleeping Bear 01-18-2007 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwecommodbod (Post 856226)
cuz you are disrespecting us by thinking u know what u are doing! thats why. the ndns u met here that think its ok for anybody to suit up and dance and/or sing, are prolly some new age friggin cherokee from virginia. (lotsa legit ndns there)

the powows u dont feel comfortable at are probably powows that are run correctly and frown upon wanabees.

everybody is welcome at a powow, just dont think you "belong" there with an outfit on, or sittin at some crazy a$$ drum. stand on the sidelines, gaze at the indins, and pay the folks u take pictures of.

and i know, alot of people are nice here, but whoever knows me, knows i'm nice as long as u know yer place. u dont see me coming to bowling league telling you how to bowl.

and of course i got a moderators attention, the title speaks out to most of you mods.

I don't know what I'm doing. I come to learn.
I don't have an outfit, and I only dance intertribals.
I have a few items of native style jewelry, but they have meaning to me and probably me alone.
I consider myself a visitor, and do my best to behave respectfully.
If you look at my first post here, you will see that I was requesting info about how I MAY have offended someone at a powwow.
If you tell me how to bowl, I might tell you to mind your own business, but I won't tell you to get out of the alley.

Now, was there a point in your post somewhere?

Ahinawake 01-18-2007 08:06 PM

Quote:

I don't know what I'm doing. I come to learn.
I don't have an outfit, and I only dance intertribals.
I have a few items of native style jewelry, but they have meaning to me and probably me alone.
I consider myself a visitor, and do my best to behave respectfully.
If you look at my first post here, you will see that I was requesting info about how I MAY have offended someone at a powwow.
If you tell me how to bowl, I might tell you to mind your own business, but I won't tell you to get out of the alley.

Now, was there a point in your post somewhere?
I agree. I think the whites who make themselves look kinda silly at powwows, thinking they know what they're doing, and that they're the best of the best or whatever, give all of us a bad name. I have seen extremely talented white dancers before. At our local powwow last year, a white honey-blonde girl was the powwow princess. She was a very talented fancy shawl dancer, and very knowledgable in her culture, which was Lumbee.

Privateer6 01-18-2007 08:25 PM

Just my $.02 worth. Yep I've seen some whites make complete fools of themselves, I've also seen a few natives do the same thing. I've also met a few whites who have done so much for natives, in my home area in particular where the local nation assimulated so much that they lost most of their language, lost their traditional crafts, and needing help conducting research to "document" themsleves for federal recognition, that they are fully welcomed not only in the arena, but also in their homes and council meetings. I've also met whites inducted into native societies and not only live up to the obligations of membership, but give a little extra in thanks for being welcomed.

As for me personally, I have been welcomed wherever I have danced. Been asked questions about my background since I moved to the area recently, but never felt unwelcomed.

softwind 01-18-2007 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwecommodbod (Post 856204)
YOUR DOING IT ALL WRONG! YOU CAN NOW GO BACK TO BOWLING, DART LEAGUE, AND SOFTBALL, AND PLEASE LEAVE THE POWOWS TO US NDNS!


thought it was worthy enough to start a new thread. some come on all you pigmently-challenged powow peoples, what ya gunna say now?

attn moderators! please dont move this thread to the "native issues" section. you let the weirdos keep their posts here, so u should let a young brother speak his mind here.

Sounds like someone is STERIO TYPEING US AGAIN and needs a time out, Just so you know I have 2 brothers both of whom are full blooded and I am only half but guess what I am lots darker than either one of them. So who are you to say who belongs and who don't.
Oh I know you must be one of those Supppper Indians.
Well I guess you won't see me posting to this thread again,
Because you are just too Indian for me :lol:

MayChe 01-18-2007 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwecommodbod (Post 856204)
YOUR DOING IT ALL WRONG! YOU CAN NOW GO BACK TO BOWLING, DART LEAGUE, AND SOFTBALL, AND PLEASE LEAVE THE POWOWS TO US NDNS!


thought it was worthy enough to start a new thread. some come on all you pigmently-challenged powow peoples, what ya gunna say now?

attn moderators! please dont move this thread to the "native issues" section. you let the weirdos keep their posts here, so u should let a young brother speak his mind here.

ok so are we going by skin color now? That's unfair.

And what if someone told you that their Cherokee grandmother was from Pennsylvania? Would you take the time to find out why that person's grandma was there? Or would you just dismiss it as someone making up a story because that area isn't where Cherokees are known to originate from?

badmaninc 01-18-2007 11:23 PM

Cool this is gonna be a good one. Dudes wait until I get my popcorn and coffee.

Joe's Dad 01-18-2007 11:40 PM

Whattup dude. Got a big bucket?

billyjoejimbob 01-19-2007 12:02 AM

Awesome! Totally Awesome!!!

lostsalt 01-19-2007 01:03 AM

.
 
Your point may be valid, but your logic is flawed.

So...

Only afro-americans can rap or hip-hop.
Only Chinese can cook egg rolls.
Only Jews can eat Bagels.
All you White and other "rock stars" turn in your guitars, thats afro american too.
Only whites can be pilots.
Unless your oreintal, give up the Tai-chi and Hapkido.

The powwow is a modern evolution of things. Started much after the start of the resevation period. Whites have been interactive in communities across the country for many years Except in volume, how has anything changed.
Whites have been participating in pwws for many, many years.
Why be upset now.
People, as they always have, can discern a fruit when they see one.
Folks find there place in the world where they belong.
Along the way they have to discover where the wrong places are before they can realize where they should be.

lostsalt

stillrezin 01-19-2007 01:05 AM

is this where the commodity line begins?

i gots to have muh cheese!

anishinabealltheway 01-19-2007 01:23 AM

Hmmmm.... I have seen a lot of crazy white people at powwows and I can see how they would get irritating.

I do this little move where I end on one knee with my other leg extended, and some white woman said that I did it wrong and I need to stop with both feet on the ground. I just laughed a bit. I've been NDN my whole life, and some woman reads that Black Elk Book and A few Boyscout websites and all of the sudden she's an expert ?? for the most part tho I don't mind the "white brother" dancing, I just think it loos kind of funny. Sometimes, it looks like there on a different page.

What I can't stand is when an older white person is claiming Elder status, and starts pontificating with incorrect info, trying to sound like Floyd in dances with wolves.

I think that ojibwecommodbod was way harsh, but I see where he is coming from...kind of.

iolana1 01-19-2007 01:42 AM

You all should know not to neg this topic on. We had a discussion on this and the topic about the white boy who dances grass. I mean people are people and they have their own oppinions but this topic shouldnt be listed. Let people be if they want to participate in powwow and dance then let them.

KoolNDN 01-19-2007 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iolana1 (Post 856585)
Let people be if they want to participate in powwow and dance then let them.

So whats next white people sundancing *o0o0ops* that already happens.

As far as heritage, I think people should come clean, if your only link to NDN ancestry was your great great Grandmother who was a Cherokee princess from Pennsylvania then say that.

You could state: I am white but I do have some NDN ancestry. There's nothing wrong with the truth. I would have respect for someone who stated that, then those who say yeah I am NDN, sporting their blond hair/blue eyes and acting as if they were elected Tribal Chairman. LMAO!

Myself I think its okay if White people dance in regular clothes during intertribals ** provided they do it respecfully** but I think they should not be in full regalia.

If your not NDN, then You will NEVER be NDN. And being NDN in you heart isn't gonna cut it either - its just wannabe hogwash.:rolleyes:

Blackbear 01-19-2007 03:48 AM

Just so's you know.. the topic is white people powwow dancing... now it does'nt say mixed bloods, north carolina indians or mixed bloods that got the light side of the coloring... so unless you fit in the white people catagory then do'nt go jumping the gun and getting all offended just yet.. wait till someone says "you white looking indians".. ROFLMAO!

Privateer6 01-19-2007 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostsalt (Post 856570)
Your point may be valid, but your logic is flawed.
...Whites have been interactive in communities across the country for many years Except in volume, how has anything changed.
Whites have been participating in pwws for many, many years....

lostsalt

Actually whites abandoning European culture and adopting Native culture has been occuring since first contact. If you read about Cortez's conquest over the Aztec from one of his officers, deGama I believe, you will read how Spanish castaways who landed on the Mexican coast not only adopted Native culture, but also warned Native allying themselves to the Spanish what would happen to them eventually AND refused to return to Spansih forces. In fact they ran away.

There are accounts during the French and Indian War of English captives becoming so assimulated into Native culture that some refused to return to their families, and when some were forced to return to their English families, ran away to rejoin their Native families. Good book on the topic uses the letters of one "captive's" family on why she wouldn't return.

Even in the late 19th and early 20th centuries you had captives assimulating into Native culture and refusing to return to their family. Andele the Mexican-Kiowa Captive is one book that comes to mind. Important note about the Andele book. Although the book was written when he was trying to become Christian and is written by a missionary with a bias, if you read the introduction, you learn that Andele eventually joins NAC.

WhoMe 01-19-2007 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwecommodbod (Post 856204)
YOUR DOING IT ALL WRONG! YOU CAN NOW GO BACK TO BOWLING, DART LEAGUE, AND SOFTBALL, AND PLEASE LEAVE THE POWOWS TO US NDNS!


thought it was worthy enough to start a new thread. some come on all you pigmently-challenged powow peoples, what ya gunna say now?

attn moderators! please dont move this thread to the "native issues" section. you let the weirdos keep their posts here, so u should let a young brother speak his mind here.


Now you've got the attention of another "mod."

Anybody who feels this thread crosses-the-line and should be deleted, just let me know?


WhoMe

trob226 01-19-2007 10:38 AM

This has been the subject of other threads, although maybe not started so bluntly. I wouldn't delete it. I'm one of those white people whose g-g grandmother was an Indian from Pennsylvania (not Cherokee, though), I'm blonde (when I color it...) and blue-eyed, and frankly, I'm not ready to see me in regalia because I think white people DO look funny in regalia, but if someone is fair-skinned, but respectful and educated, maybe it should be okay. Fools should just be escorted out, no matter what color they are. Maybe someday, when I'm more educated, I might dance - but not yet. I just can't see my pasty face on top of beaded buckskin.

Kiwehnzii 01-19-2007 10:56 AM

Ojibbod - you are humorous. Dang, you like getting a rise outta wannabes, innit?

Carry on.

hobbs49 01-19-2007 11:10 AM

Jesus loves the little children,
All the children of the world.
Red and Yellow,
Black and Whilte,
All are precious in his sight.
Jesus loves the little children of the world!

ok24stacey 01-19-2007 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe (Post 856643)
Now you've got the attention of another "mod."

Anybody who feels this thread crosses-the-line and should be deleted, just let me know?


WhoMe


:lurk: just chillin for now (in my best white person accent) :hypocrite This popcorn is for everybody that would like some.

Chevy_truckin_NDN 01-19-2007 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahinawake (Post 856209)
All I'm going to say is that I understand why you feel that way. You and a lot of indians. It's complicated...at some powwows I feel like I belong. At others I feel like I just need to leave. I wish things weren't so complicated. You might do well to remember, though, that someone who looks white could very well be half or 25% Indian...it doesn't seem wise to me to make vast generalizations based on the way somebody looks.

Hey that's what I'm saying. My niece is 100% native. 1/4 cheyenne, 1/4 hawaiian and 1/2 seneca. And her seneca blood, well, she looks whiter than some of the white girls. So yeah, I can understand that. But I don't look all indian either. I'm 1/2 cheyenne and 1/2 hawaiian, but you can really see my hawaiian blood in me. Though I was raised around skins most of my life, been to all kinds of powwows, some times I get that stink vibe when I'm on the trail and peeps are lookin at me wierd....OR maybe that's because I don't dance.....LOL Just sing....or maybe the steel toe boots, or MAYBE its the wild hawaiian hair.....LMAO... Oh heck, who really cares?

Cheyennes were taught to share share share, thier culture, their religion, their way of life with all people who wanted to learn. No where did anyone ever tell me, you can share your culture with everyone except for anyone who looks toooooo white, black, or yellow. So, I dunno. That's my opinion. Probably doesn't help this thread any. LOL

Privateer6 01-19-2007 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ok24stacey (Post 856714)
:lurk: just chillin for now (in my best white person accent) :hypocrite This popcorn is for everybody that would like some.



MMMMMMMM Popcorn!!!!!!!!!! Does it have extra butter on it?

Sleeping Bear 01-19-2007 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping Bear (Post 856256)
I don't know what I'm doing. I come to learn.
I don't have an outfit, and I only dance intertribals.
I have a few items of native style jewelry, but they have meaning to me and probably me alone.
I consider myself a visitor, and do my best to behave respectfully.
If you look at my first post here, you will see that I was requesting info about how I MAY have offended someone at a powwow.
If you tell me how to bowl, I might tell you to mind your own business, but I won't tell you to get out of the alley.

Now, was there a point in your post somewhere?

I guess there wasn't.

streamhawk 01-19-2007 01:48 PM

ojibwecommodbod, I understand your point, I honestly do, and maybe why you posted it, but if you honestly look at your post, does it not borderline just a bit on the side of racism? How many people in the world do you really need to hate on? As a young man sometimes it's good to really take a close look at your own heart. If I took every word in your posts as truth, I'd have to think you have something against the Cherokee, since you mentioned the tribe more than once. Have you actually surveyed those people you mentioned at powwow's, or is it like someone else suggested, you're strictly going on skin color? Lots of questions only your heart can answer. If it bothers you so much, maybe you should confine yourself to ceremonial gatherings mostly. I've seen all manners of people make a fool of themselves, and it didn't really matter what color they were.

White Powwow Dancer 01-19-2007 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwecommodbod (Post 856204)
YOUR DOING IT ALL WRONG! YOU CAN NOW GO BACK TO BOWLING, DART LEAGUE, AND SOFTBALL, AND PLEASE LEAVE THE POWOWS TO US NDNS!


thought it was worthy enough to start a new thread. some come on all you pigmently-challenged powow peoples, what ya gunna say now?

attn moderators! please dont move this thread to the "native issues" section. you let the weirdos keep their posts here, so u should let a young brother speak his mind here.

Why Being so racist on the board?

2lineCarrandMorgan 01-19-2007 01:57 PM

ya know i get feeling sorry for the whites at powwows here in austin the school sponcers the powow one of the many one from the city it only one day but i would not miss it for anyone
when we have the round dance to put moneyon the blankets for the drums everone come outand it a mess, i love dancing with the ppland cant wait for my dress so i can dance more .but the mc always trys to keep ppl in check with his comments that i have come to love ,one woman might be dancing kind od tribal not native but somekind of clubing dance and hes tell all of us that we got some moviestar name here i think she might get the point.
and we have a dance where the non native ppl can try thier best to dance like the diffrent dancers in regala for things like dinner or money its alway a funnyand some time the same ppl come back each year to try to win,the mc has names for the like mr rogers,and girl with spurs,thing like that if big time poking fun at them but everone has a good time ,
at the last powwow i meet some more ppl one from powwows.com we had a gifting and sheard some wisdom and it was over for one more year,
so young man with heart angey ,lol you were borned with the best gift any one could have its your and in time you will see how wonderfull you are.

*Brown Eyed Gurl* 01-19-2007 02:02 PM

Why are u all posting??? danng...if u dont like HIS OPINION then dont read his thread and dont post:rolleyes:

streamhawk 01-19-2007 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Brown Eyed Gurl* (Post 856887)
Why are u all posting??? danng...if u dont like HIS OPINION then dont read his thread and dont post:rolleyes:

Let me see if I got this straight, no one's supposed to have an opinion, but him.....and you?


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