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Josiah 01-31-2009 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furiously-Fancy (Post 1262528)
Well put sis! Truth is.........real NDN's are RESPECTFUL & HUMBLE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakota Wiyan (Post 1262483)
What happened to "REAL NDNs" being respectful and humble? Does being young translate as being rude and over judgmental (sounds like European ways to me)?

I've been a dancer for nearly 30 years now, since I was a teeny little girl. I have seen the "wannabees" and have done my share of laughing and pointing, as well as shaking my head and wondering exactly HOW MANY TIMES have they watched Dances With Wolves! However, because my grandma had a hand in raising me, and because my uncles and aunties are good strong examples of "REAL NDNs" aka LAKOTA Ikceya Wicasa na Wiyan, I would NEVER call people out and publicly disrespect them. Nope, that would make me look foolish and ignorant; and those are usually traits I find in Eurocentric Idiots!!

Too often we get caught up in absolutes and finite things
And dealing with people it is never the case
All people have the freedom to choose what they want to do and what they want out of this life
If it makes you happy then by all means do it
Sometimes I forget that
In real life I have seen these people come to powwows seeking some higher answer
But its not there
It was inside them all along

They just need someone to point them the way
As these two people have done for me. The answer was inside me all along and I knew it because I had heard it before just did not listen to it.

I was attempting to define something that is difficult to define and lack the skill in writing to describe what that was. I must say I did a very poor job of doing that and going back over my posts it shows.
I read alot of posts here on Powwows.com and occasionally someone will come along and post something that just cuts to what the essence of the thread is really about and ANSWER what we all were struggling to define.

Just two words Respectful and Humble.
If you apply those in all that you do then you will find the answer...

timmy tiger 01-31-2009 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownEagleApache (Post 1262336)
I understand where you are coming from. My problem is that my white mother lied to me all my life. I found out 2 years ago that my real father worked for the Southern-Pacific RR. He was a Kiowa-Gataka Apache from Lawton, OK. After being raised white and then finding out you are half NDN is kinda of a shock. However I am not pasty white. I am brown hair brown skin and brown eyes. Which I always thought was strange cuz I did not look like my brothers or sisters.

This is fairly easy believe it or not.

Go to Lawton and go to some of the dances and start talking to people. Tell them who your dad is/was and someone will know exactly who you are and will sit and talk to you. I have seen this happen many many times and it's always wonderful when people connect with their relations. You might be surprised at how welcome you would be.

SuzzeQ4 01-31-2009 01:32 PM

in response to Lakota Wiyan and steelmagnolia posts...
 
I think it's good we are shooting out all this. When this thread started and the dozen or so pages that followed it was all us arguing with the decendants of that famous princess. Now it is moving towards what do we (amoungst ourselves) think. Yousay this...but what about this situation. I think it's moving into the territory of a healthy discussion. One can assume that most of us here (if not all) are proud of who we are and would like to pass that on to our decendants. Well what is involved in passing that on? Do we just want to pass on blood, or just culture or both? What happens if one of our decendants is removed from the culture? Where do they fit in? How do they get that back? What about the lost family member that probably each of us have? If we don't talk about it from every angle then nothing is answered. If nothing is answered I think its those of us who were removed from the culture who are hurt the most...so i guess I got an interest in it being answered

NorthofAda 01-31-2009 02:14 PM

Sometimes it's the culture that reaches out to the individual. I remember reading a couple of months back how the father of Sam Bradford, the OU quarterback, commented on their lack of knowledge and participation in their culture. Yet it is obvious that the Cherokee Nation has embraced him, and other tribes have held him up as a positive role model for native youth. Yet he is only 1/16th Cherokee and admittedly untaught in the ways of his ancestors.

Those that are cut off from the ways of their ancestors by a multiplicity of generations will find it harder to make that connection, that's for sure. In some cases the whole tribe has lost things. There are some tribes where the language has been lost. My people encountered the white man as early as the 1500s and were converted by missionaries to the point where very few know the old ceremonies and such. Even if someone wanted to get back some of what is lost they may be limited by what is still known and practiced.

steelemagnolia63 01-31-2009 02:39 PM

The thing is that there are no easy answers. Yes, we all have one for that grand daughter of a "Cherokee Princess" or grandson of a "Lakota Medicine Man" that pops up at every powwow that any of us attend. Sometimes I forget to stop and think that this is what a lot of people have been told their entire lives and they truly believe this. Just like the think that we are all brown or red. That the rez is a great place where the govt takes care of the poor but noble savages. These people think that Kevin Costner dancing around the fire is the way that we all do things. Once again I am not talking about the fake shaman, and the new age wannabes... But there are poor misguided souls that think that their granny was a princess or that crazy old uncle al was really a medicine man....

What we don't seem to have is healthy disscussions about our lost family members, some through their own fault, some through being scooped, some through a family choice to go into hiding and try to blend in to survive. Some of our people just walk away because they are tired of the fight. We as "the people" that are the survivors of 100's of years of attempted forcable conformity need to find ways in our hearts to remember that our people were accepting, humble, and respectful. To gather our lost brothers and sisters and to let the ones that left angry and hurt know that you can come home. We still love you and want you....

I am as guilty as anyone is about getting caught up in the fight to keep what is ours and to keep it for my grandchildren and great grandchildern and the generations to follow. I rail at the wannabes that I feel are stealing my heritage. I rant and rave and weep over what is happening to us as a people.

I was once told by someone so much wiser than I will ever be that the only person you can change is yourself, and by making that change for the positive. You can lead very gently the ones that follow the right way. So we must first look inside ourselves for the way of a human being and then carefully and gently lead the ones that follow in that direction...

and if anyone says that I am starting to sound like a wise elder I am going to smack them with my rolled up newspaper....

TKMJ Productions 01-31-2009 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelemagnolia63 (Post 1262607)
and if anyone says that I am starting to sound like a wise elder I am going to smack them with my rolled up newspaper....

I see an opened door in this statement.:lol:

Hint: My great grandmother, grand mother and mother used a stick.:quiet:

steelemagnolia63 01-31-2009 09:02 PM

TKMJ bite me!!!!!!!!!!!!

TKMJ Productions 01-31-2009 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelemagnolia63 (Post 1262659)
TKMJ bite me!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll take that as an invatation! :board_yu:

:lol:

steelemagnolia63 01-31-2009 09:39 PM

on second thought you better not bite me... lol...

so here :lol_hitti for even thinking that I was wise... lol

TKMJ Productions 01-31-2009 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelemagnolia63 (Post 1262671)
on second thought you better not bite me... lol...

so here :lol_hitti for even thinking that I was wise... lol

And who thought you were wize??????? Did I say anything to you about the "E" word? Noooooooooooooooo.............

My reference was to your newspaper. I just stated what my family used.


And then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, You made me an offer.
And then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I accepted.
And then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, You backed out.
And then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, You hit me!

Boy I tell ya. Build a guy up just to let him down!

I'm tellin Suzzie! Better yet, I'm tellin my wife!!!!!

shadowoman 01-31-2009 10:57 PM

wife[/COLOR]

TKMJ Productions 01-31-2009 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowoman (Post 1262684)
wife[/COLOR]

Yes wife!

Well, I went into the kitchen from my study and told her what happened. She felt so bad for me that she gave me the first four chocolate mint chocolate chip cookies hot off the oven pan with a fresh cup of coffee!:regular_s

Later she said she was going to get Great Grandmother's big stick!

You're in trouble now!:lol:

SuzzeQ4 02-01-2009 12:45 AM

she shoulda hit ya with the newspaper herself, accepting such an offer, your lookin for support on this in the wrong place TKMJ...just ask my husband, after giving birth this many times I have little sympathy for whinny Men.:lol:

TKMJ Productions 02-01-2009 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1262704)
she shoulda hit ya with the newspaper herself, accepting such an offer, your lookin for support on this in the wrong place TKMJ...just ask my husband, after giving birth this many times I have little sympathy for whinny Men.:lol:

Who's looking for sympathy? I got my cookies and coffee and my wife has Great Grandmother's big stick.

You can't play stick game with a newspaper!

Nice try playing the birth card. It's a good one!
I'll trump you with the kidney stone card!

SuzzeQ4 02-01-2009 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 1262711)
Who's looking for sympathy? I got my cookies and coffee and my wife has Great Grandmother's big stick.

You can't play stick game with a newspaper!

Nice try playing the birth card. It's a good one!
I'll trump you with the kidney stone card!

Gimme a couple of years to catch up and I'll have a new card to play:whistling

steelemagnolia63 02-01-2009 12:24 PM

hey I hit the jar head with a rolled up newspaper and it never works.... I guess that I need TM's granny's big stick.... lol

TKMJ Productions 02-01-2009 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelemagnolia63 (Post 1262809)
hey I hit the jar head with a rolled up newspaper and it never works.... I guess that I need TM's granny's big stick.... lol

Yep Ya Do!

And for $24.95 plus shipping and handling, I'm gonna send you not one, not two, but three of those wonderful sticks.

But wait! There's more!!!!! Not only am I gonna send you the sticks, I'm going to send you my book, The Wanabi Guide to NDN MAGIC BEHIND the STICK . It is filled with wonderful useful information to uses of the stick.

But Wait! There's More!!!!!! Not only am I going to send you the three sticks and my guide, I going to send you a set of three mini sticks that are perfect for pocket or purse.

Be the first one at your powwow to posess these wonderful sticks. You'll be the envy of all who see them. But remember to share that wonderfull feeling the sticks hold!

ORDER TODAY!!!!!!!!

SuzzeQ4 02-01-2009 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 1262814)
Yep Ya Do!

And for $24.95 plus shipping and handling, I'm gonna send you not one, not two, but three of those wonderful sticks.

But wait! There's more!!!!! Not only am I gonna send you the sticks, I'm going to send you my book, The Wanabi Guide to NDN MAGIC BEHIND the STICK . It is filled with wonderful useful information to uses of the stick.

But Wait! There's More!!!!!! Not only am I going to send you the three sticks and my guide, I going to send you a set of three mini sticks that are perfect for pocket or purse.

Be the first one at your powwow to posess these wonderful sticks. You'll be the envy of all who see them. But remember to share that wonderfull feeling the sticks hold!

ORDER TODAY!!!!!!!!

OMG, I'm so happy, I'm going to be a real NDN (I mean native American.) How do you think it will look with my new headdress?. I know Women don't usually wear one but I felt in my heart I was ment to have one. It's not real eagle feathers but I don't think anyone will notice, especially with my new granny stick!!!! :indian:

TKMJ Productions 02-01-2009 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1262824)
OMG, I'm so happy, I'm going to be a real NDN (I mean native American.) How do you think it will look with my new headdress?. I know Women don't usually wear one but I felt in my heart I was ment to have one. It's not real eagle feathers but I don't think anyone will notice, especially with my new granny stick!!!! :indian:

You will be the fashion statement of the 2009 powwow season! Everyone will be talking about you!

I must warn you that it is not a granny stick. It is a medicine stick. It is used to administer medicine. It can be dangerous in the hands of someone who does not know how to use its power. Just a simple wave can put fear in the hearts and minds of others.

I can't tell you more here on the forum. You will have to read the book. If you need more insite, I am available for consoltation in person for a nominal charge.

steelemagnolia63 02-01-2009 04:05 PM

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
send me a set.... I can't wait....

TKMJ Productions 02-01-2009 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelemagnolia63 (Post 1262833)
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
send me a set.... I can't wait....

Send me your name and address in a PM. I'll get the kit right out to you with a free gift!

maskdartist 02-02-2009 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwecommodbod (Post 856204)
YOUR DOING IT ALL WRONG! YOU CAN NOW GO BACK TO BOWLING, DART LEAGUE, AND SOFTBALL, AND PLEASE LEAVE THE POWOWS TO US NDNS!


thought it was worthy enough to start a new thread. some come on all you pigmently-challenged powow peoples, what ya gunna say now?

attn moderators! please dont move this thread to the "native issues" section. you let the weirdos keep their posts here, so u should let a young brother speak his mind here.

I get a lot of grief for looking the way I do at Pow wows. Simply becuase my great grandmother fell in love with a non native, I am born into harassment, and dirty looks at most native events. I still speak the Navajo language, regardless of how "watered down" my blood is. (Granted I still have brown eyes, fairly tan skin, and brown hair, and I don't look as white as some of the other mixbloods with blonde hair and blue eyes.)

I get a lot of dirty looks and harassment from people about my regalia. To me, dancing is for honoring my ancestors, and honoring all of their hard work to let their children's children many generations down the line, live a good life. That being said, picking and choosing which of my ancestors to honor would be disrecpectful. My regalia is about 90% Native American, with tribal Germanic rune sets on my belt, and Germanic barbarian style pelt on my head. You have no idea how much harassment I get for that, but in my eyes, they forget the reason we dance in the first place.

You wouldn't beleive the way I am treated simple because my great grandma fell in love with a non native. My grandma can legally own sacred feathers for regalia in California, but since most tribes won't acce[y anyone below 25%, I can't possess any feathers on non-huntable birds. I am sure my great grandma is crying for that, and all of the mixbloods that are ignored, and forgotton by their own people. Expecially the mixbloods that still know the language, and still respect their culture(s).

shadowoman 02-02-2009 08:52 AM

Know the feeling my mom was half breed(she hated being called that) i am the white sheep of family --my daughter is 100%ndn in her heart but cannot get papers -she gets tired of being told she "don't look injun!" she tells them now 'funny you don't look like a jack a********* but sure sound like one" you know who and what you are the whites can't change that --be you !! Be proud !!! And let's pow wow till the sun comes up again --peace

SuzzeQ4 02-02-2009 11:02 AM

The question of blood and culture has been flying around here. After reading the posts by maskedartist followed by shadowman I wonder if there is a third part to the equation that is more subjective. We have (probably) all met people who were 1/8th NDN that just seem as white as can be while others seem as NDN as the rest of us. I am not talking colour cause we all know NDN's in a variety of shades, hell I know a few full bloods that aren't that dark. I think when we meet lighter skins we wonder and then move on...but some leave you wondering. Yeah if your 1/8th then you probably look white cause your 7/8th white. But you look at someone who is half and light, and ofter only their skin looks white, their faces ofter look at least part NDN...and I'm not talking just a famously great set of cheekbones. You read shadowmans kid's posts and you feel like your talking to one of your own kids. But some you talk to or read their posts (as the case may be) and your left rolling your eyes. Maybe its the difference between those who are "NDN in their heart" defensively defending that one little piece vs. those who just are? Yeah I think blood matters...alot...but I guess some people just make you open to the odd exception..maybe cause when you meet them your willing to let a piece of them into your heart cause they just feel like family.

I thought of something this morning before reading these. Don't know how it works in the US but up here if your 1/8th white (7/8th NDN) or 1/16th white (15/16th NDN) your legally considered to be full NDN).

shadowoman 02-02-2009 11:42 AM

Thank you suzzeq4 that made me feel better i needed that today ! When my baby sister moved to alaska a tribal elder asked her what tribe you from-- back east--abanaki or penobscot i'll bet-- he hit it on the nail by looking at her we are abanaki(not federally regonized tribe in us) she is now married to alaskian native (can't spell name of tribe??) and has been formally adopted into tribe there has three beautiful kids who follow the red road peace and thank you

WhoMe 02-02-2009 12:47 PM

Just as beauty is in the eye's of the beholder ... So is being Indian. Let's have your opinion on some hypothetical (possibly real) situations:

Prototype #1. is Cherokee. His great (x 7) grandfather, signed the Dawes Roll in 1830 and he is a card carrying Cherokee. He has never acknowledged his Indian ancestry except to get a college grant. Is he Indian?

Prototype #2 is fiercely proud of his Wea and Michigamia tribal ancestry whom he has geneology papers for, but either tribe is not recognized by the state or federal government. Is he Indian?

Prototype #3 has a father she has never met who died shortly after she was born. The father alledgely was a member of the casino rich Pechanga Tribe of California. The family of the father does not claim her. She has DNA proof she is Indian but this DNA does cannot specify what tribe. Is she Indian?

Prototype #4 has been told her great, great grandmother was a full blood Blackfoot Indian but that this great, great grandmother lived during a time when it wasn't cool to be Indian so she didn't register on the Blackfoot tribal roll and hid the fact she was a full blood Blackfoot Indian. Is she Indian?

and finally,

Prototype #5 is adopted and told by his adopted parents that he comes from a Sioux Indian family from Sioux Ciity, Iowa according to his adoption papers but he has no proof. He has blonde hair. He is raised by a well known powwow family, is a champion fancy dancer and accepted by other Indians on the powwow circuit. Is he Indian?

TKMJ Productions 02-02-2009 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowoman (Post 1262907)
Know the feeling my mom was half breed(she hated being called that) i am the white sheep of family --my daughter is 100%ndn in her heart but cannot get papers -she gets tired of being told she "don't look injun!" she tells them now 'funny you don't look like a jack a********* but sure sound like one" you know who and what you are the whites can't change that --be you !! Be proud !!! And let's pow wow till the sun comes up again --peace

People tell me the same thing as your daughter that I look white not NDN. Later those same people ask if I have Cochise in my family line because some of my facial features are the same as Cochies's from the pictures. I never say yes or no to the question. The one thing I do say is that "I didn't know that Cochise looked white!" then walk away.

Just remember that not being able to obtain a tribal ID card does not stop you from seeking your heritage. I know many who are 1/16 or 1/32 who are seeking their true NDN heritage and check every detail to make sure it is accurate. I also know many of the same who claim 1/16 or 1/32 who grasp at straws and accept what people tell them and never check to make sure the information is true. Who is the wanabi???

TKMJ Productions 02-02-2009 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe (Post 1263013)
Just as beauty is in the eye's of the beholder ... So is being Indian. Let's have your opinion on some hypothetical (possibly real) situations:

Prototype #1. is Cherokee. His great (x 7) grandfather, signed the Dawes Roll in 1830 and he is a card carrying Cherokee. He has never acknowledged his Indian ancestry except to get a college grant. Is he Indian?

Prototype #2 is fiercely proud of his Wea and Michigamia tribal ancestry whom he has geneology papers for, but either tribe is not recognized by the state or federal government. Is he Indian?

Prototype #3 has a father she has never met who died shortly after she was born. The father alledgely was a member of the casino rich Pechanga Tribe of California. The family of the father does not claim her. She has DNA proof she is Indian but this DNA does cannot specify what tribe. Is she Indian?

Prototype #4 has been told her great, great grandmother was a full blood Blackfoot Indian but that this great, great grandmother lived during a time when it wasn't cool to be Indian so she didn't register on the Blackfoot tribal roll and hid the fact she was a full blood Blackfoot Indian. Is she Indian?

and finally,

Prototype #5 is adopted and told by his adopted parents that he comes from a Sioux Indian family from Sioux Ciity, Iowa according to his adoption papers but he has no proof. He has blonde hair. He is raised by a well known powwow family, is a champion fancy dancer and accepted by other Indians on the powwow circuit. Is he Indian?

Gonna throw a whammie in there:

prototype #6 An NDN, white man, and a black man walk into the civil service office to take a test to obtain a government job. The NDN and black man are entitled by law to receive 10 extra points because of the minority laws of this country. The white man is entitled to no extra points due to his majority. The black man is never questioned to his race when he checks the box but a NDN man, no matter how much he looks like the typical NDN in the movies, he must prove his "NDN hood" with a federal ID card.

Without that card, he receives no extra points but the black man's word is taken as is. Why is the black man's mans word accepted as is, while the NDN must prove his status?

No one ever questions you if you say you are black or white. Why are we always questioned if we say we are NDN???????

shadowoman 02-02-2009 01:30 PM

thank you --shadow

captain 02-02-2009 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1262152)
Ok, so much to say...

tkmj well said on it all. Best lookin parts are definatly NDN and I'm also cool with the white guy who is happy to be white and comes to the circle (when invited) as a white guy. It's just more respectful. Also agree with your definition of NDN

spanish steel good point about other cultures (even white cultures like the Scots and the Irish) sharing similar histories.

night hawk yep sharing is good, but there is a fine line between sharing and taking, like wise between sharing and giving away.

shadowman's kid Think your going to do just fine. Your willingness to listen to your Auntie and look for all the best possible info will keep you safe from the fakes and wannabes who would bestow you with titles and names just so they can have another follower...you will meet these people but my intuition is that you will see them for who they are, 'sides you got family to follow.

captain, it's your turn and I don't agree...
Non-NDN's are welcome into the circle, at times, with respect. If we were exclusive powwows wouldn't be public and they wouldn't have inter-tribals. Sharing who we are doesn't mean giving it all a way. White people come...just be respectful...don't play dress up NDN ...and be thankful for what we do share instead of b*tching that we're not handing you every single thing we have and know.

There is no such thing as no money (anymore)...unless you have a free way I can get to the next powwow, or that the powwow committee can get port a potties, water and many other essentials. I have yet to recieve money that would do more then cover my gas (usually not enough to cover my gas). As for competition powwows (haven't done then but) it is my understanging that if a dancer doesn't place they don't have $ so I have never understood the "just for money" argument there. Paying someone to do a ceremony or what ever is totally different then covering their expenses (or helping with their expences) so that they can come and do what you ask for.

I think the rock, rap, disco argument is week. Asking if we go dress up and dance at the Chinese or Caribbean center or go to square dances would have been a better point...but since we all would have said no I guess you skipped it to compare apples and oranges (no pun inteneded). If I were to ask a white person about their traditional culture they would tell be about historical clothing and dances (the previous mentioned highland games), they would not however tell me that dorky clothes and Celine Dion was a deeply special part of their culture contributing to their sense of cultural identity..

Yea, but that's my opinion and I am entitled to it. Yes my argument may be a little "Week", but yours is by far "weaker" yet. But it does not matter because who gave you and the others the right to speak on behalf of all First Nations on who should and should not partake in certain ceremonies. Take a walk outside and look around, we are not getting the old ways back. Far better to adapt in order to preserve!

steelemagnolia63 02-02-2009 03:39 PM

Good situations put forth by who.... let me give you my answers and (insert disclaimer here) they are my answers not the thoughts of the management....LOL!!! I was always taught that our path, the path of a Native American, is not to become a Indian we are either born one or we are not, but the path is to become a better human being....

Prototype #1. is Cherokee. His great (x 7) grandfather, signed the Dawes Roll in 1830 and he is a card carrying Cherokee. He has never acknowledged his Indian ancestry except to get a college grant. Is he Indian? he is native american by birth, but he is not walking the path of a human being....

Prototype #2 is fiercely proud of his Wea and Michigamia tribal ancestry whom he has geneology papers for, but either tribe is not recognized by the state or federal government. Is he Indian?..... Native American, the govt seems to only want to recognize the tribes that they want to. The more that that wipe off the "books" the more that they will never have to admit that they destroyed...
Prototype #3 has a father she has never met who died shortly after she was born. The father alledgely was a member of the casino rich Pechanga Tribe of California. The family of the father does not claim her. She has DNA proof she is Indian but this DNA does cannot specify what tribe. Is she Indian? .....This one I am not sure about since DNA testing for Native blood is less than 60% accurate. No big time recognized labs will even touch this one.... not even approved by the FDA for genetic prove of native blood.
Prototype #4 has been told her great, great grandmother was a full blood Blackfoot Indian but that this great, great grandmother lived during a time when it wasn't cool to be Indian so she didn't register on the Blackfoot tribal roll and hid the fact she was a full blood Blackfoot Indian. Is she Indian? I think so, but that is my own opinion. I think that if you have a oral or written history that isn't out there in left field, and you can link back to someone that is or was on a tribal record then you are a Native American...
and finally,

Prototype #5 is adopted and told by his adopted parents that he comes from a Sioux Indian family from Sioux Ciity, Iowa according to his adoption papers but he has no proof. He has blonde hair. He is raised by a well known powwow family, is a champion fancy dancer and accepted by other Indians on the powwow circuit. Is he Indian? ...Yes.....

TKMJ Productions 02-02-2009 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain (Post 1263026)
Take a walk outside and look around, we are not getting the old ways back. Far better to adapt in order to preserve!

You are correct in what you say that we must adapt to the modern technologies of today. No one is questioning that idea. However to really find who we are, we must take everything we can from our past and move it forward with us in it's original form. Therefore, we build the drum for ceremony and powwow in the way our ancestors did. We don't use an electronic drum kit such as made by Roland or Casio.

Just to show you that we are a progressive people, powwow is not actually traditional. The oldest powwow known was started with the help of my family members in Arlee, Montana as a heritage gathering of all Native American people of the area no matter what their tribe. This is the oldest powwow known and is just over 100 years old. It grew from a handful of people to a gathering of thousands each year. A sound system was introduced to this powwow in the 1950s only because of the size it has grown to.

If a woman was to make true clothing in a traditional way, she would cut the skins with a hand sharpened stone, not a knife or sissors. Then again, is the clothing we ware traditional? After all we all started with no covering and adapted to our surrownings as a necessary thing.

Learning our past and its teachings takes us into our future! Without knowing our past, we have no future!

SuzzeQ4 02-02-2009 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain (Post 1263026)
Yea, but that's my opinion and I am entitled to it. Yes my argument may be a little "Week", but yours is by far "weaker" yet. But it does not matter because who gave you and the others the right to speak on behalf of all First Nations on who should and should not partake in certain ceremonies. Take a walk outside and look around, we are not getting the old ways back. Far better to adapt in order to preserve!

beyond just saying it's weak can you explain why?

Second. The statement that we are not getting the old ways back and should just move on ... and similar stements.

(TKMJ, good points but I want to add something). I hear statements like captains from people and wonder what the hell they are talking about. There certainly is parts of our culture that have been lost but there is LOTS that is still there...practiced by lots of NDN's and their NDN kids and spouses. Just cause you (captain) do know of it happening (like all the time) doesn't mean it isn't happening.

ALSO don't ever remember saying that I was Queen sh1t of all us NDN's.

TKMJ Productions 02-02-2009 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1263046)
ALSO don't ever remember saying that I was Queen sh1t of all us NDN's.

:thinking:

If you were Queen Sh1t over all the NDNs then,,,,,,,,,,,,

That would make your daughter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Princess Pooh! :eeyore:

It's up to us to take the bad and make something good out of it! :thumbsup:

SuzzeQ4 02-02-2009 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 1263065)
:thinking:

If you were Queen Sh1t over all the NDNs then,,,,,,,,,,,,

That would make your daughter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Princess Pooh! :eeyore:

It's up to us to take the bad and make something good out of it! :thumbsup:

AH HA! so there is an NDN princess!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol:

SuzzeQ4 02-02-2009 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe (Post 1263013)
Just as beauty is in the eye's of the beholder ... So is being Indian. Let's have your opinion on some hypothetical (possibly real) situations:

Prototype #1. is Cherokee. His great (x 7) grandfather, signed the Dawes Roll in 1830 and he is a card carrying Cherokee. He has never acknowledged his Indian ancestry except to get a college grant. Is he Indian?

Prototype #2 is fiercely proud of his Wea and Michigamia tribal ancestry whom he has geneology papers for, but either tribe is not recognized by the state or federal government. Is he Indian?

Prototype #3 has a father she has never met who died shortly after she was born. The father alledgely was a member of the casino rich Pechanga Tribe of California. The family of the father does not claim her. She has DNA proof she is Indian but this DNA does cannot specify what tribe. Is she Indian?

Prototype #4 has been told her great, great grandmother was a full blood Blackfoot Indian but that this great, great grandmother lived during a time when it wasn't cool to be Indian so she didn't register on the Blackfoot tribal roll and hid the fact she was a full blood Blackfoot Indian. Is she Indian?

and finally,

Prototype #5 is adopted and told by his adopted parents that he comes from a Sioux Indian family from Sioux Ciity, Iowa according to his adoption papers but he has no proof. He has blonde hair. He is raised by a well known powwow family, is a champion fancy dancer and accepted by other Indians on the powwow circuit. Is he Indian?

#3 may have her dad on her birth certificate, she is NDN by blood but may struggle to find her culture cause of her Dads family, but by blood she is NDN.

#5 has the blood too. Adoption papers often (but not always) state that your mom and or dad is NDN if they are (mine do), also sometimes where from but not the name you need to get enrolled., but blood is there and documented.

#2, don't know how that works in the US, here there are tribes that don't have status cause they refused to sign a treaty, but the everyone still considers them NDN, especially their family who live on res and have a treaty. And i think up here they are recognized, they just don't have status so I guess I don't feel qualified to answer as to how that works in the US since I don't know enough about it.

#1 & 4, generally I'm going to say not in my books (this is a personal statement, not a decree from Queen sh1t). Said a few posts back there are some who seem to be an exception (but whats a rule if you can't break it) but I am adding to this something else I said in that same post. Those who are 1/8th white (7/8th NDN) are considered full blood legally, so what does that mean in reverse.

Those who are angered by my opinion chill out..it's just my opinion...I don't make the rules...or do I?

TKMJ Productions 02-02-2009 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1263076)
Those who are angered by my opinion chill out..it's just my opinion...I don't make the rules...or do I?

That all depends on the size of your stick and the knowlege to use it! :wink_smil

SuzzeQ4 02-02-2009 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 1263078)
That all depends on the size of your stick and the knowlege to use it! :wink_smil

Oh I am still excitedly awaiting the arrival of my stick in the mail!

TKMJ Productions 02-02-2009 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1263071)
AH HA! so there is an NDN princess!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol:

YES!!!!!!!! Every daughter of every NDN mother and father is a princess!

It's in the blood lines!

Do you detect a bit of bias here?:bow28:

Josiah 02-02-2009 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe (Post 1263013)
Just as beauty is in the eye's of the beholder ... So is being Indian. Let's have your opinion on some hypothetical (possibly real) situations:

Prototype #1. is Cherokee. His great (x 7) grandfather, signed the Dawes Roll in 1830 and he is a card carrying Cherokee. He has never acknowledged his Indian ancestry except to get a college grant. Is he Indian?

Prototype #2 is fiercely proud of his Wea and Michigamia tribal ancestry whom he has geneology papers for, but either tribe is not recognized by the state or federal government. Is he Indian?

Prototype #3 has a father she has never met who died shortly after she was born. The father alledgely was a member of the casino rich Pechanga Tribe of California. The family of the father does not claim her. She has DNA proof she is Indian but this DNA does cannot specify what tribe. Is she Indian?

Prototype #4 has been told her great, great grandmother was a full blood Blackfoot Indian but that this great, great grandmother lived during a time when it wasn't cool to be Indian so she didn't register on the Blackfoot tribal roll and hid the fact she was a full blood Blackfoot Indian. Is she Indian?

and finally,

Prototype #5 is adopted and told by his adopted parents that he comes from a Sioux Indian family from Sioux Ciity, Iowa according to his adoption papers but he has no proof. He has blonde hair. He is raised by a well known powwow family, is a champion fancy dancer and accepted by other Indians on the powwow circuit. Is he Indian?

#1) There was no Dawes Roll in 1830 perhaps the Emigration Roll in 1835. But this always throws a flag for me as a suspect when they dont know history that is easily looked up...

#2)Short Answer is Yes, other tribes like the Delaware’s fall in this same catagory...

#3)Perhaps DNA proof that is her Father
But otherwise under the law no

#4) No, she falls below the 1/4 Blood Quantum

#5) Is adopted so yes


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