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NancyJo 01-15-2009 11:01 AM

Jeez............all my ancestors were farmers and ranchers........no chiefs in our bunch. <grin>

All kidding aside, you know........if you feel the need to pow wow, then go out.....be respectful.....dance right/dress right......be humble........don't be declaring your lineage to any poor soul that will listen and just accept who you are (caucasin and indian).period.

streamhawk 01-15-2009 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carolann (Post 1257834)
First off , I was trying to explain why I have the right to go to powwows and the only way to do this was to describe ( in a round about way ) where I get my NA blood .

now hang on a minute, I don't know you, and you don't know me, but it sure sounds like you are getting a social gathering very confused with a ceremonial one. Anyone can go to a powwow, you don't have to prove anything, it's a dance contest in essence. Now, if you want to go to a stomp for example, you better find and get to know someone that can vouch for you and invite you to come, how would you even know what clan to sit with, much less where the stomp ground is?

If you are wanting to dance with regalia, better get to know someone that can bring you in with the style of dance you may want to dance.

You do what you want, just some friendly advice. Go to all the powwow's your heart desires, no one will tell you that you can't attend a powwow. Good luck to you...

streamhawk 01-15-2009 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rynn (Post 1257747)
So I prefer to call my tribe by its proper and due title TsaLaGi ( which means the principal people) blood.

oh? m'k. Might want to research this then:

Ani-yu-wi-ya

let me know what you learn.

SuzzeQ4 01-15-2009 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1257797)

If white people with distant Native ancestors (like you claim) really have found a Chief on the family tree just say "I'm a decendant of so and so" and then the people of that Nation would all be "Oh Chief so and so, yes, we know some of your distant cousins..." .

I am quoting myself because it was a suggestion. If you stated what I suggested (agian...) "I am a decendant of (insert full name) then the people of that Nation would recognize that name if that person was infact a chief. You would in turn be met with a response you'd be happier with...unless of course the person isn't a chief...then they probably won't know who your talking about.

So lets all pretend your first few posts didn't happen, start over. "I am so & so, I am a decendant of so & so" Then we will wait and the Cherokee people here will generally know the names of their chiefs of that era and they will respond...just give it a try.

Carolann 01-15-2009 02:21 PM

*

streamhawk 01-15-2009 02:30 PM

Ross? A relative or descendant of John Ross perhaps?

Josiah 01-15-2009 02:33 PM

Cherokee 1st Families are documented beyond belief they know whom is kin to whom
No surprises or peoples that were hiding somewhere...

SuzzeQ4 01-15-2009 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah (Post 1257915)
Cherokee 1st Families are documented beyond belief they know whom is kin to whom
No surprises or peoples that were hiding somewhere...

really...I didn't know that...:hypocrite

so ever heard of these chiefs?


Not that it matters to me cause anyone who has read my posts knows that (IMO) 1/16 = not NDN enough.

Josiah 01-15-2009 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1257920)
really...I didn't know that...:hypocrite

so ever heard of these chiefs?


Not that it matters to me cause anyone who has read my posts knows that (IMO) 1/16 = not NDN enough.

Sure Yonaguska is also known as Drowning Bear he basically started the Eastern Cherokee Band after removal of all the rest of the Cherokees
He stayed in NC and died in 1839

Timmy Tiger I am sure could provide his ancestry

The other one "Chucunsen" does not ring a bell
nor does it appear to be spelled right

Carolann 01-15-2009 04:39 PM

*

NancyJo 01-15-2009 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carolann (Post 1256093)
I am half Cherokee and I get it from both sides .

My moms side came from Ohio and it was my GG Grandfather who was a Cherokee Chief ( and we dont have princesses ) .

I have elders who walked the trail of tears and ones who escaped and stayed in the eastern part of the country .

On my dads side it came from my GG Grandmother & GG Grandfather from OK , they were both full blood Cherokee and it was my Grandmother who married an Irish man and was ousted out of her tribe .


I was taught my Cherokee ways by my Grandmother and am still learning the ways to this day .

I have found and still find that I will never fully be accepted in either race and it is just something I have to live with .

So call me a wanna be or whatever else you like but it wont stop me from " invading " your powwows and I will still go on learning and embracing my Cherokee ways and heritage .

.......... Carolann aka Cryptoseeker :)


Carolann,

"To the statement about telling every poor soul who will listen , Once again , I ONLY do it when I am being asked , grilled or questioned about my NA blood .".

I don't believe any one was asking, grilling you or questioning you about your lineage......I believe you were trying to explain why you had the right to pow wow.........by telling us your lineage.

Josiah 01-15-2009 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carolann (Post 1257994)
I said it above that I was not sure of the spelling of these two names .

I was actually thinking my mom was having an off day
( mentally ), when she told me what their names meant , One was about a drowning bear( which you said was for Yonaguska ) and the other was walks with canoe or drags a canoe !? She also mentioned my father , so she could be getting familys and stuff mixed up .


When it comes to the Ross relation , it was my grandma Bessie and her mom Naomi who referred to him as grandfather or g grandfather Ross . I do not know about his first name .


I was told that some of my people fled and stayed behind and some fled to another state and then I have some that walked the trail and that is just on my mothers side .

Do you think Timmy Tiger would tell me about my ancestor ?

Thank you for the info on Yonaguska .

.......... Carolann :)

Well your naming two of the most famous Chiefs of the late 1700's

timmy tiger 01-15-2009 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carolann (Post 1257909)
Ok , just talked to my mother who is in her 80s and from what I can gather there was something about a Chief Chucunsen and a Chief Yunaguska not sure of spelling for either one . She said that I would have to track down a certain relative who has the old papers and birth certificate . As for my gg grandfather Ross , I am going to try to locate what info is on him .



To the statement about telling every poor soul who will listen , Once again , I ONLY do it when I am being asked , grilled or questioned about my NA blood .

........Carolann :)


I believe that I know who you are referring to and those families did not cross and marry into each other. One stayed East, one went West and wound up in Washington and the other one went West and then a few years later came back to the East, married and had kids and died there (If you are referring to whome I think you are). So what is the family name that comes through this man? Birth Cert? Prior to 1900? I sure would be very interested in seeing that one. Really I would be.

John Ross was in the Rev War and his war records are out there and I believe that they list both his wives and his children, if not Emmett Star sure did when he did the families who went West back in the 1800's.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah (Post 1257960)
Sure Yonaguska is also known as Drowning Bear he basically started the Eastern Cherokee Band after removal of all the rest of the Cherokees
He stayed in NC and died in 1839

Timmy Tiger I am sure could provide his ancestry

The other one "Chucunsen" does not ring a bell
nor does it appear to be spelled right

Yep, you are right there Josiah. I've been reading and watching this thread and didn't post. But saw my name and decided to do just that. I know the descendants of Drowning Bear, many many of them.

I believe I know who "Chucunsen" might be referring to, not totally sure though. But have had this very discussion with someone else too. I have seen that spelling before in some of the old papers and then it was changed to something else or I should say the spelling corrected/changed. I believe it's who I think it is.

streamhawk 01-15-2009 05:00 PM

Tsi'yu-gunsini, or Dragging Canoe, War Chief, broke away from the Cherokee, (it's a long story, you'd have to read about it), and formed the Chickamauga population. Not sure if this is who you refer to, Dragging Canoe died in 1792, so that's getting pretty far back. The name Tsi'yu-gunsini does sound similar to what you posted however.

timmy tiger 01-15-2009 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carolann (Post 1257994)
I said it above that I was not sure of the spelling of these two names .

I was actually thinking my mom was having an off day
( mentally ), when she told me what their names meant , One was about a drowning bear( which you said was for Yonaguska ) and the other was walks with canoe or drags a canoe !? She also mentioned my father , so she could be getting familys and stuff mixed up .


When it comes to the Ross relation , it was my grandma Bessie and her mom Naomi who referred to him as grandfather or g grandfather Ross . I do not know about his first name .


I was told that some of my people fled and stayed behind and some fled to another state and then I have some that walked the trail and that is just on my mothers side .

Do you think Timmy Tiger would tell me about my ancestor ?

Thank you for the info on Yonaguska .

.......... Carolann :)


Only if it is actually yours. I will not go and give a run down on someone else's family or a mis-connection. I'm not trying to or meaning to be mean here, it's more about a families privacy issue. But you will have to go from yourself, back to your parents, grandparents and on back to get to him, not just come up with a name that could be and go from there. I don't work like that and never have.

Ross was a very common name, and still is, the John Ross that you come through may or may not even be the same one you are referring to. I've had many come to me and say that and it turned out to be a totally different one altogether.

SuzzeQ4 01-15-2009 05:42 PM

wow, it's amazing what you can find on the net in just half an hour...name of cheif and every single child marriage death on and on all the way down the line with blood quantum listed and everything...see what Josiah means about no surprises.

timmy tiger 01-15-2009 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1258028)
wow, it's amazing what you can find on the net in just half an hour...name of cheif and every single child marriage death on and on all the way down the line with blood quantum listed and everything...see what Josiah means about no surprises.

Be very very careful there Suzze, there not all correct either. Many times there were more then one person with the same name and many times people have connected the wrong ones to the wrong parents. This happens not just with the NDN people, but all backgrounds. There are records all the way back to the late 1700's/early 1800's and much of it is documented. That's what I use, is tribal and federal records. I have personally found many errors with some of the ones on line. But they are good to give you an idea on how well the people have been documented over the years and who's who. You can find alot of good info out there that is accurate, but some is not. I found one that listed some of Drowning Bear's children with the wrong names 'cause according to the Rolls and other Tribal records that child's parents were someone else.LOL Just an FYI, that's all.

Joe G 01-15-2009 06:21 PM

"John Ross was in the Rev War and his war records are out there"

I think you are thinking of the civil war....not the revoltionary war.../???

timmy tiger 01-15-2009 06:50 PM

Okay, might have been his Civil War records. I saw them once a number of years ago and what I saw had a lot of info in him. I'm trying to remember. I really haven't done all that much on him other then for a person or two and it didn't get that far really, yet.

Josiah 01-15-2009 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmy tiger (Post 1258044)
Okay, might have been his Civil War records. I saw them once a number of years ago and what I saw had a lot of info in him. I'm trying to remember. I really haven't done all that much on him other then for a person or two and it didn't get that far really, yet.

Yep Civil War
John Ross was Chief till 1866 when he passed away


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