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nejnna 08-24-2010 12:39 PM

Bone Thugs N Harmony came out of East Cleveland - They were great, but noone dares to go into E. Cleveland except for the Clinic now.
They have like 5 police officers and one of the mayors was a convicted murderer - It is one of most dangerous and blighted areas of Cleveland. My brother came up from Texas and wanted to see it and told him no way :$ scary

Bobo - have you been to the Rock Hall? If you come up, we should go -
Cinci is fun too - I am driving to Oklahoma in October and will go through there if you want me to pick up anything for you -
My friends and I are all big music people - I photograph their bands, make their promo packs and we just have a blast - I love live bands -

If anyone comes this way, let me know!

RDNKJ 08-24-2010 04:42 PM

White (American) Inferiority Complex, Part 1
 
This is gonna be a long one, so I'll divide it into two parts.

Reading through this and other similar threads got this White boy thinking about Whites wanting/insisting on participating in powwows (participating, not just watching) and the whole discovering one's Cherokee princess g-g-?-grandmother phenomenon. It got me wondering if this type of inferiority complex is a White, or even more specifically, a White American disease.

I never met anyone who said they were descended from this legendary Cherokee princess until I was an adult. While the town I grew up in was definitely majority White, there were enough "card-carrying" Cherokee that anyone claiming that Cherokee princess would've been laughed right out of the room.

But, I think as a result of that 1950's TV show, it seemed like every other child claimed descent from Davy Crockett. While a few of the kids might have been a descendent, the majority of those claims were most likely false. If not, then Davy was at least as prolific as that princess (thank god they never got together!). But I do know that a whole lot of these kids' parents (falsely) told them they were related to Davy Crockett.

Similarly, over the years I've met quite a number of people who (again, falsely) claimed to be descended from various European royalty - and I don't mean royalty as far back as Charlemagne, but from the latter half of the 1800's. Most if not all of these claims have been, on their face, ridiculous and fall apart if given any sort of critical thought. A good friend of mine thinks she is descended from a (European) princess of a kingdom/country that has never existed (I have no intention of bursting her bubble - not my place to do). But, once again, they aren't making this stuff up - they've been told this since childhood by their parents.

End of part 1

RDNKJ 08-24-2010 04:59 PM

White (American) Inferiority Complex, Part 2
 
I'm thinking the same is likely true of these faux Cherokee princess people. I don't think they're making it up - I think they've been told this, probably since childhood, by their parents.

The Europeans who hold their own powwows, imo, are a different phenomenon. I understand their mindset. I'm not saying I agree or approve of it, but I do understand where the European hobbyists are coming from. The Europeans just say they're doing it out of admiration, right? Or is there a significant number of European powwowers who claim descent from some NDN princess who somehow ended up in Bohemia (or wherever) a couple hundred years ago? I don't know, but I think probably not.

Does the "Cherokee Princess" myth exist up in Canada? Cherokees might be a stretch, but do y'all Canadian NDNs have Whites telling you that they're descended from some vague "Cree Princess" or something of the sort?

Although it manifests itself differently in different cultures, puffery exists everywhere. But, really, except maybe for the purpose of grifting, I just don't understand this whole phenomenon of people lying to their children about NDN/Royal/Davy Crockett/etc.. ancestry. It is some sort of peculiar inferiority complex.

Gee, White people write a LOT! :wink_smil

gtbdave 08-24-2010 06:59 PM

I don't know, I was reading in our Tribal Newspaper. They had an article that about all Tribal members, a huge proportion of them like 80%, were descendents of these few guys, they had a picture of about a dozen guys. My grandfather was in the picture. So many of the Tribal people, when I think about it are all related, a bunch of cousins, maybe distant, but still, you see the names, all connected somehow. It's like that on both sides of my family, my parents were from the same Tribe, but different Bands. You know the names of the ancient Chiefs, and you can see the same names, and the connections all over the place. My family has ancient Chiefs on both sides of the family, although I've never heard of any family claiming direct descendent. The family has had 3 who have won Princess contests, whether that makes them descendent Princesses is debatable. I could go to a pow wow and be surrounded by relatives, distant granted, no so distant in some cases, and a whole group of Princesses. Not to mention Chiefs. Some in my family have big staffs where they work, I kid them and tell them they should make the staff members call them, "Chief". :regular_s

Rachelevans 08-25-2010 04:37 AM

Wow, that's a lot to think about! You and GBTDave make a lot of good points. There's a saying I'll paraphrase here (because dammit I cannot remember it exactly) that goes something like "Every king has a peasant in his ancestory, and every peasant a king."

wanjica_the_one 08-25-2010 08:52 AM

I think it's funny that the white folk will accept a white man soiling an Indian princess but you hardly hear of an Indian man soiling a white lady in their heritage. Why is that?

Grits & Beans 08-25-2010 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanjica_the_one (Post 1432191)
I think it's funny that the white folk will accept a white man soiling an Indian princess but you hardly hear of an Indian man soiling a white lady in their heritage. Why is that?


*DEAD*


:hysterica :hysterica :hysterica

vinnie dean 08-25-2010 11:16 AM

all i have...
 
all i have to say to you native brothers and sisters is:
EACH MAN IS GOOD IN HIS SIGHT.
IT IS NOT NECESSARY FOR EAGLES TO BE CROWS.

Sitting Bull.
GO POPLAR INDIANS.

vinnie dean 08-25-2010 11:24 AM

HI.you know,i will be happy to teach everyone to what i know.i am not against the white people.i just want litle more respect from them.because i think that most of them respect us,but some part of them think that they are better than us.peace to all of you.

Iowa_Boy 08-25-2010 11:44 AM

Sorry folks, just saw this thread, did i miss anything?

Rachelevans 08-25-2010 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanjica_the_one (Post 1432191)
I think it's funny that the white folk will accept a white man soiling an Indian princess but you hardly hear of an Indian man soiling a white lady in their heritage. Why is that?

Soiled??? HAH! Odd how so many white women were considered crazy when they were "rescued" from their ndn husbands. Most wanted to go back to living with "the savages", so they must be nutz!There was one lady I read about who tried to run back to her Lakota hub so many times her white fam had her tossed into a mental asylum where she died.


Soiled? Riiiiiiight! O_O

bobo 08-25-2010 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinnie dean (Post 1432208)
HI.you know,i will be happy to teach everyone to what i know.i am not against the white people.i just want litle more respect from them.because i think that most of them respect us,but some part of them think that they are better than us.peace to all of you.

i read somewhere once that the difference between blacks and indians is that blacks want white peoples respect. They want to stand where the white man stands. But the indian just wants to be left alone. Why do you care if they respect you vinnie?

cris_neva 08-25-2010 12:32 PM

Can't say I blame the CRAZY WHITE WOMAN for wanting to go back...we have some nice looking native men...to this day they still be trying to take our brownies...LOL...its all good...just stay away from my son..LOL...JK...JK

That last statement was all in good fun! You can't help who you fall in love with!!! :hypocrite

Rachelevans 08-25-2010 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cris_neva (Post 1432219)
Can't say I blame the CRAZY WHITE WOMAN for wanting to go back...we have some nice looking native men...to this day they still be trying to take our brownies...LOL...its all good...just stay away from my son..LOL...JK...JK

That last statement was all in good fun! You can't help who you fall in love with!!! :hypocrite

HHHhmmmmm now....lemme see.....do I go back to the white "settler" guys who are taught sex is dirty and women are stupid, or stay with my respectful hunk who knows WTF he's doing? Wait! Wait! Lemme mull this over! It's a very difficult decision......NOT

*********************
I know everybody took yer joking fer what it was. It's a great thing that these days most people can fall in love and be together, regardless of race or background, eh? : )

nejnna 08-25-2010 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinnie dean (Post 1432208)
HI.you know,i will be happy to teach everyone to what i know.i am not against the white people.i just want litle more respect from them.because i think that most of them respect us,but some part of them think that they are better than us.peace to all of you.

Cool. I don't think I am better than anyone else - there is much to learn from all people. I am a willing learner!

Rachelevans 08-25-2010 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nejnna (Post 1432225)
Cool. I don't think I am better than anyone else - there is much to learn from all people. I am a willing learner!

Me too!

RDNKJ 08-25-2010 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanjica_the_one (Post 1432191)
I think it's funny that the white folk will accept a white man soiling an Indian princess but you hardly hear of an Indian man soiling a white lady in their heritage. Why is that?

I posted the edited version of my thoughts. There was originally a whole paragraph about why is it always an NDN "princess" and never an NDN "prince."
The same holds true for the people who claim royalty - they are almost always descended from a princess, never a prince. :confused_

OLChemist 08-25-2010 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanjica_the_one (Post 1432191)
...Indian man soiling a white lady in their heritage.

Hey, my family resembles that remark, LOL.

robby 08-25-2010 07:57 PM

white people at powwows
 
I have noticed more natives try to dress/act/talk like black folks and are embarrassed about their lack of knowledge of their own culture. I encourage white people to continue to perpetuate a culture that has been abandoned by its own creators. Maybe one white man can pass on the teachings of the arena to a young native who might not have the respect for our ways that a non-native would.

Rachelevans 08-25-2010 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robby (Post 1432313)
I have noticed more natives try to dress/act/talk like black folks and are embarrassed about their lack of knowledge of their own culture. I encourage white people to continue to perpetuate a culture that has been abandoned by its own creators. Maybe one white man can pass on the teachings of the arena to a young native who might not have the respect for our ways that a non-native would.

Is it really that prevailant? I guess so, I've seen lotsa young white kids doing the same thing. I don't care much for hating what you are and trying to be something else. most people have cultural things to be proud of, and cultural things they'd rather avoid. Everybody should look into their ancestery, and into their own hearts. Sometimes that heart says something from another culture means a great deal. Sometimes they see or read things and say, "My God, that's gotta be saved before nobody remembers it." Hence one of my daughters is studying traditional, ancient style Hula. No ukeleles. She's not Hawaiian, but she's learning the language of the chants and studying the music and moves with great reverence. Is that right? Her heart is in it, and it's deadly serious to her. She's striving to save something beautiful and unique. I say go 4 it. Her teacher was skeptical at first too, but now respects and accepts what my daughter is trying to do. She's not trying to pass as Hawaiian, but loves and wants to perpetuate ancient style hula, something worthwhile.

There are a lot of things to think about and consider here...


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