PowWows.com Forums - Native American Culture

PowWows.com Forums - Native American Culture (http://forums.powwows.com/)
-   Pow Wow Talk (http://forums.powwows.com/f11/)
-   -   *attention White People Who Powow!* (http://forums.powwows.com/f11/attention-white-people-who-powow-36832/)

Solaris 01-28-2007 11:49 PM

The way I'd like to see it, maybe it's too idealized, but hey...is that all of us who reside in North America are Amercian. Not all the cultures who consider themselves also American, African, Mexican, Native, Asian, etc, shouldn't necessarily be seen as separate then your so-called white, over-excited teenagers who are wet behind the ears. A lot of people have a tendency to forget that we white people do have cultures as well, French, German, Swedish, Polish, whatever, and we're not all uncultured hicks. However, what's unique about the Native culture is that they are one of the few who can say, because they were here first, that they were definitely infringed upon, same with Mexican-Americans. But, recently, North America has become home to people of many different races and cultures, so that Canada and US have truly become a melting pot. Although some are trying to keep their cultures alive, I'll bet we can no longer find too many pure-blood anybodies, Native, white, black, etc. We've intermingled to the point where it'd be great to be able to consider ourselves just Americans, Canadians, whatever...humans even?? I do find myself in the same boat as Ken - I'm not sure if I've gotten my message across the way I wanted...we'll see...

TKMJ Productions 01-29-2007 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trob226 (Post 864477)
How do we get the kids to stop and listen to the elders? How do we get the elders to want to try to grab the kids who are slowing down?

The old ways have worked for generations. However with the new laws the "big stick" is illigal.

My wife still has marks on her legs from the willow. At one time, this is how we were taught to dance. Out of step and meet the switch. Don't knock it, It works!!! To this day my wife always has a perfect step.

trob226 01-29-2007 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solaris (Post 864496)
The way I'd like to see it, maybe it's too idealized, but hey...is that all of us who reside in North America are Amercian. Not all the cultures who consider themselves also American, African, Mexican, Native, Asian, etc, shouldn't necessarily be seen as separate then your so-called white, over-excited teenagers who are wet behind the ears. A lot of people have a tendency to forget that we white people do have cultures as well, French, German, Swedish, Polish, whatever, and we're not all uncultured hicks. However, what's unique about the Native culture is that they are one of the few who can say, because they were here first, that they were definitely infringed upon, same with Mexican-Americans. But, recently, North America has become home to people of many different races and cultures, so that Canada and US have truly become a melting pot. Although some are trying to keep their cultures alive, I'll bet we can no longer find too many pure-blood anybodies, Native, white, black, etc. We've intermingled to the point where it'd be great to be able to consider ourselves just Americans, Canadians, whatever...humans even?? I do find myself in the same boat as Ken - I'm not sure if I've gotten my message across the way I wanted...we'll see...

I think I understand your point. I agree, Americans are a melting pot to some degree, but also a tossed salad - we're together, we blend to a point, but the tomato still wants to be a tomato and the pepper a pepper. That's one of the most unique things about North America - it's the first place where different cultures have occupied the same space and been forced to interact on a daily basis. The rest of the world is starting to feel it now, too - look at Europe now, with so many non-Europeans coming there to live. Would be good to consider ourselves just Americans, but until we each learn to respect the cultures of others, allow cultures to express themselves but to agree to reign them in when they hurt other cultures, we can't get there. I'm not a Christian, but Jesus made a lot of sense when he spoke and one of the best rules for living together I ever heard was do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If we could all live by that law - well, we'd only need one law.

Sleeping Bear 01-29-2007 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trob226 (Post 864477)
OK, if you don't mind, I'll follow my train of thought a little farther. White American culture, compared to Indian culture, is like a bunch of misbehaving pre-adolescents running over their elders. It's just too young. It won't listen to the wisdom of the older cultures around it and just runs them down if they get in the way. Indian cultures, far older, got run down, got up again, got run down again, got up again and are now sick and tired of the little upstart. But the kids are too quick to grab and shake. The elders can only try to keep from being run over yet again. How do we get the kids to stop and listen to the elders? How do we get the elders to want to try to grab the kids who are slowing down?


For what it's worth, I'm listening.

Solaris 01-29-2007 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trob226 (Post 864645)
If we could all live by that law - well, we'd only need one law.

My mom always says that...well, not ALWAYS, but you know...I agree with that.

trob226 01-29-2007 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 864504)
The old ways have worked for generations. However with the new laws the "big stick" is illigal.

My wife still has marks on her legs from the willow. At one time, this is how we were taught to dance. Out of step and meet the switch. Don't knock it, It works!!! To this day my wife always has a perfect step.

My husband always tells stories about when he was a kid and misbehaved, his father would tell him to go get a switch for him to hit him with, so my husband would bring back something the size of a baseball bat and get out of his beating. But by then he was behaving again. People overusing the willow (or the switch) wrecked its effectiveness as well as its legality.

trob226 01-29-2007 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping Bear (Post 864647)
For what it's worth, I'm listening.

Listening to your elders? Excellent.

Sleeping Bear 01-29-2007 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trob226 (Post 864736)
Listening to your elders? Excellent.

I'll listen to almost anyone, for a while.
It's my elders I really pay attention to.

Lakota Wiyan 01-29-2007 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solaris (Post 864430)
Ok...listening.



This is a little confusing to me...All the people you mentioned are doing a job for money, many of the jobs you listed are done just to get by and are not really enjoyed by the people who do them. Aren't Natives who dance and take the time to dress in their regalia doing it for the love of their culture and because they're proud? Since when is that to be likened to a busboy????



I've never asked a Native to pose w/ a loved one, I only ask them to pose themselves, with one of their own loved ones if they want, to document their gorgeous dance outfits.

Now, I've had many people, Natives included, ask me for directions, ask for the time, ask for any number of favors...should I get tips those times too? I'm fulfilling a request too, aren't I?

I don't wanna sound ignorant, and I'm sorry if I do...it just doesn't make sense to me that I have to tip a man for taking his picture...


There are no ignorant questions as long as you are willing to respectfully accept the answers!!

I dont think that any dancer dances just to entertain non-native spectators, BUT, the amount of work and creativity put into the creation of our regalia is tremendous. And it is done out of love and respect for our culture, and for the honor of our tribes and our families. Therefore, we are NOT there to pull aside and have pictures taken for YOU to take home and show off and enjoy for years to come.

We don't ask for money, so dont assume that we, as a whole, would do something like that. HOWEVER, sometimes people are APPRECIATIVE of our efforts, and out of their appreciation, they see a small monetary "Gift" would be an appropriate gesture. YOU are in no way obligated to show, or even feel, any appreciation at any powwow. You can take pictures all you want, and take and take and take all the enjoyment of the entire powwow which, by the way, we as a people, hold open to the public, which allows you to take and take and take enjoyment from.

Keep in mind, while you take and take and take your pictures and your enjoyment, that alot of our dancers are here by the skin of their teeth, having sunk alot of money and time into their regalia, into travel, meal and lodging costs for themselves and their familes, have taken time off their jobs and schools, in order to be at the powwows where you take and take and take.

Maybe, if you consider the whole picture, you might see a small monetary gift, or even a cup of coffee or a bottle of water, maybe even a pouch of tobacco for a drum or an elder, an appropriate gesture of appreciation for the tremendous effort that people have to put forth in order to keep an entire culture and way of life alive and well so that maybe YOUR grandchildren will be able to come and take and take and take as well.


We don't expect it at all, but when it does happen, it shows us a generous heart and a person full of appreciation and gratitude and understanding. That makes it easier for us to accept spectators and their questions. It makes it easier for us welcome you and your families to take those pictures.

But don't feel obligated, cause nobody is going to ask you....
It is the simple, honest truth: We don't benefit from YOU coming to our powwows as much as YOU benefit from being invited...

Solaris 01-29-2007 04:49 PM

Wow...I don't know...I can't help but be a little put off by this message. I understand where the feeling of whites taking and taking comes from, but I assure you, I don't go to powwows to take, take, take, and it's very disheartening to know some people feel I do. I'm not a money machine, but I do give back where I can, like when a family hosts a round dance where they pass a blanket around. We gave money for several reasons, because it was a good cause, because we felt it respectful to show our appreciation somehow, and yeah, so that we can feel like we gave something back.

By you saying you don't benefit from us being there as much as we benefit from being invited is driving a huge wedge between us, and almost implying that you're doing us a favor. I don't feel anyone is doing anyone else any favors, you're just paying homage to your culture and the fact that it's open to the public says you welcome anyone to take part. Is it so bad to see white people who are open to learning about your culture at a powwow? I personally have never seen any go just to ridicule or cause trouble, we go out of respect and wanting to learn more about something foreign to us...at least I do.

Although I understand why so many Natives feel separate from whites, it would be great if both sides could make an effort to reach out to the other, one reason why I do go to powwows. Honestly, I have felt a little out of place when I go, because I feel like sometimes I'm not wanted...but why am I not wanted and stigmatized for something I couldn't possibly have done?

lostsalt 01-29-2007 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakota Wiyan (Post 864871)
There are no ignorant questions as long as you are willing to respectfully accept the answers!!


But don't feel obligated, cause nobody is going to ask you....
It is the simple, honest truth: We don't benefit from YOU coming to our powwows as much as YOU benefit from being invited...

These words by Lakota Wiyan are dead-on accurate. She said it in a very polite way. She could have taking the "take-take" theme much further than she did.
Solaris, Don't be put off, understand the content of what she is saying.
I have been completely amazed at the actions of some spectator and thier children. I'm a fancy dancers. I bet i have hundreds of hackles that have been "snatched off my bustles over the years. It's cool i never get to bent about it. Too say that an audience of whites is needed is not the case. Their are many small community and family powwows (at least there used to be) that aren't publisized.
I think the point is well made by Lakota Wiyan.

Solaris 01-29-2007 05:41 PM

Wow...some people take the feathers right of dancers' regalia?? Geez...I guess because there are things I'd never fathom doing, it's hard to understand why some people hold such rigid opinions, but you come to expect it from anyone with the right conditioning, huh? The minute you decide to give someone a break, in comes another Joe stealing your hackles, feathers, etc.

Yeah, Lakota Wiyan is merely expressing how Natives were made to feel after years of disrespect, I understand that. One can only trust and be insulted or burned so much before they shut themselves off. And who am I to think I can change years of opinions by a few little posts...I am only one person. I just hope that if I keep going to powwows with good intentions to learn of another culture, meet people, etc, that the Native people I'm around will come to realize that I don't have any alterior motives.

trob226 01-29-2007 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakota Wiyan (Post 864871)
There are no ignorant questions as long as you are willing to respectfully accept the answers!!

I dont think that any dancer dances just to entertain non-native spectators, BUT, the amount of work and creativity put into the creation of our regalia is tremendous. And it is done out of love and respect for our culture, and for the honor of our tribes and our families. Therefore, we are NOT there to pull aside and have pictures taken for YOU to take home and show off and enjoy for years to come.

We don't ask for money, so dont assume that we, as a whole, would do something like that. HOWEVER, sometimes people are APPRECIATIVE of our efforts, and out of their appreciation, they see a small monetary "Gift" would be an appropriate gesture. YOU are in no way obligated to show, or even feel, any appreciation at any powwow. You can take pictures all you want, and take and take and take all the enjoyment of the entire powwow which, by the way, we as a people, hold open to the public, which allows you to take and take and take enjoyment from.

Keep in mind, while you take and take and take your pictures and your enjoyment, that alot of our dancers are here by the skin of their teeth, having sunk alot of money and time into their regalia, into travel, meal and lodging costs for themselves and their familes, have taken time off their jobs and schools, in order to be at the powwows where you take and take and take.

Maybe, if you consider the whole picture, you might see a small monetary gift, or even a cup of coffee or a bottle of water, maybe even a pouch of tobacco for a drum or an elder, an appropriate gesture of appreciation for the tremendous effort that people have to put forth in order to keep an entire culture and way of life alive and well so that maybe YOUR grandchildren will be able to come and take and take and take as well.


We don't expect it at all, but when it does happen, it shows us a generous heart and a person full of appreciation and gratitude and understanding. That makes it easier for us to accept spectators and their questions. It makes it easier for us welcome you and your families to take those pictures.

But don't feel obligated, cause nobody is going to ask you....
It is the simple, honest truth: We don't benefit from YOU coming to our powwows as much as YOU benefit from being invited...

Thanks for this. I was always afraid that by offering money or anything for a photo,it would be taken as an insult. Good to know when I'm wrong.

streamhawk 01-29-2007 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solaris (Post 865112)
I am only one person. I just hope that if I keep going to powwows with good intentions to learn of another culture, meet people, etc, that the Native people I'm around will come to realize that I don't have any alterior motives.

hey, as long as you go to have fun, be polite, ask good questions, know the do's and don'ts, and did I say have fun?, you'll be fine. You'd more than fit in to any powwow I attend with that in mind.

Eagle Plumes 01-29-2007 06:06 PM

Ive made alot of good friends over the yrs that were not NdN and liked to pow-wow and they did things in a good way and never tried to do or be anything they were not and fit very well into our pow-wow scene, as long as you leave the Davy Crocket hat at home things should be fine lol

hobbs49 01-29-2007 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solaris (Post 865112)
Yeah, Lakota Wiyan is merely expressing how Natives were made to feel after years of disrespect, I understand that.... And who am I to think I can change years of opinions by a few little posts...I am only one person.

Solaris, I'm not sure that the internet is really the place nor the way to change the world. The fact is that in all groups of people there are bigots and those with open hearts. The best you can hope for is to be one of those with an open heart (and mind). When you go to a powwow, pay attention to what is going on around you. If you're not wanted, you'll probably notice. Be humble, not showy. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. Meet some people, make some friends. Talk about things other than dancing, singing, powwows, etc. These are all things that as I've grown older, I understand better and work hard at.

You will stand a better chance changing the world one person at a time. And you'll get to meed a lot of neat people along the way.

TKMJ Productions 01-29-2007 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solaris (Post 865022)

Although I understand why so many Natives feel separate from whites, it would be great if both sides could make an effort to reach out to the other, one reason why I do go to powwows. Honestly, I have felt a little out of place when I go, because I feel like sometimes I'm not wanted...but why am I not wanted and stigmatized for something I couldn't possibly have done?

Solaris,
The Native American has always given to the white man from day one back in 1492. In return the Native has gotten his lands stolden, his home distroyed, his food sources depleated, his family stricken with desease, his culture striped, his family structure distroyed, and much more. The white man has always taken and only given back empty promases. And a few bucks here and there. The treaties are a bunch of crap. They were signed to help save ndn lives. That's about it.

We were enslaved in our own lands and killed because of our beliefs. At that time we the native people were not christian as it was known but most tribes believed in "One Creator". Just like the christian believed in their god. Did you know that a few tribes had their own written language ane were traders of goods? No we didn't use gold or silver to barter. We used common necessataries instead. You can't eat gold or heat your tipi with silver.

The Native has always given and the white man has always taken with no reguard for the land or the people. We still open our hearts and lend a hand and still we get slapped in the face. Yea, I got an attitude! Look at the history from our point of view! Look at what was taken from us and what did we get in return. Believe me, It wasn't a fair trade!!!:mad:

trob226 01-29-2007 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865229)
Solaris,
The Native American has always given to the white man from day one back in 1492. In return the Native has gotten his lands stolden, his home distroyed, his food sources depleated, his family stricken with desease, his culture striped, his family structure distroyed, and much more. The white man has always taken and only given back empty promases. And a few bucks here and there. The treaties are a bunch of crap. They were signed to help save ndn lives. That's about it.

We were enslaved in our own lands and killed because of our beliefs. At that time we the native people were not christian as it was known but most tribes believed in "One Creator". Just like the christian believed in their god. Did you know that a few tribes had their own written language ane were traders of goods? No we didn't use gold or silver to barter. We used common necessataries instead. You can't eat gold or heat your tipi with silver.

The Native has always given and the white man has always taken with no reguard for the land or the people. We still open our hearts and lend a hand and still we get slapped in the face. Yea, I got an attitude! Look at the history from our point of view! Look at what was taken from us and what did we get in return. Believe me, It wasn't a fair trade!!!:mad:

Speaking for that large part of me that is white, none of us can change the past. The only thing we can change is the future. The Civil Rights era showed we can change attitudes and actions on a large scale, but eras like that are few and far between. Right now, in this America, we have to work on an individual basis. I know we as white people can't expect a hand in friendship where we are strangers. No reason on this earth we should expect that. We have to prove ourselves, but we can't do it for all white people, just as individuals. I think you know neither Solaris nor I are about to slap you in the face, not because we know you'd knock the s*** out of us (as well you should), but because we, as individuals, respect you as an individual and respect the Indian cultures we've come to know. Best we can do right now. I hope you can understand that it's tough to take the punishment for your race when you really are trying to do the right thing.

Solaris 01-29-2007 08:13 PM

Thanks guys...dang, no davey crocket hat? Awww....oh well, I'm not a hat person anyway. ;)

trob226 01-29-2007 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solaris (Post 865289)
Thanks guys...dang, no davey crocket hat? Awww....oh well, I'm not a hat person anyway. ;)

Yeah, broke my heart, too. And they advise me not to wear my microsuede either - rats!

Solaris 01-29-2007 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trob226 (Post 865277)
Speaking for that large part of me that is white, none of us can change the past. The only thing we can change is the future. The Civil Rights era showed we can change attitudes and actions on a large scale, but eras like that are few and far between. Right now, in this America, we have to work on an individual basis. I know we as white people can't expect a hand in friendship where we are strangers. No reason on this earth we should expect that. We have to prove ourselves, but we can't do it for all white people, just as individuals. I think you know neither Solaris nor I are about to slap you in the face, not because we know you'd knock the s*** out of us (as well you should), but because we, as individuals, respect you as an individual and respect the Indian cultures we've come to know. Best we can do right now. I hope you can understand that it's tough to take the punishment for your race when you really are trying to do the right thing.

Thank you, thank you! What's hard is that prejudice only perpetuates more prejudice. No, you can't put yourself in a vulnerable position and then be suprised when you're stolen from (metaphorically, literally, whatever), but we can only start changing things if we're all a little more optimistic about things.

Ok, now I know I'm sooo not well-educated on Native history at all, but I am aware of the basics of your colonization (I took a first-year Native Studies course in university). I know that's not much, but I can confidently say I probably know more than the average white person.

And I agree with talking about stuff other than the powwow or their regalia. I'm a very shy person though, and it's hard for me to strike up a conversation with anyone, let alone someone who's maybe just as shy as me. :hypocrite

Solaris 01-29-2007 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trob226 (Post 865300)
Yeah, broke my heart, too. And they advise me not to wear my microsuede either - rats!

Lmao!

TKMJ Productions 01-29-2007 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trob226 (Post 865277)
Speaking for that large part of me that is white, none of us can change the past. The only thing we can change is the future. The Civil Rights era showed we can change attitudes and actions on a large scale, but eras like that are few and far between. Right now, in this America, we have to work on an individual basis. I know we as white people can't expect a hand in friendship where we are strangers. No reason on this earth we should expect that. We have to prove ourselves, but we can't do it for all white people, just as individuals. I think you know neither Solaris nor I are about to slap you in the face, not because we know you'd knock the s*** out of us (as well you should), but because we, as individuals, respect you as an individual and respect the Indian cultures we've come to know. Best we can do right now. I hope you can understand that it's tough to take the punishment for your race when you really are trying to do the right thing.

Trob,
My comments are not geared to indiviguals, they are more directed to the government we now have. Yes we are all indiviguals with different oponions. Some people are understanding of the way the native was treted. Others can't get in their head that equal rights is now a law in this country. At one time there were signs posted that said "no blacks allowed", or "no indians can enter". Those signs were change to this: "We have the right to refuse service to anyone". Did you know that the Native American were the last people to have the right to vote in this country? The black population and women had the right long before the ndn.

We as Native Americans are now a minority in our own lands. Now that sound funny doesn't it. People like you and Solaris are the exception to the rule. There are many like you. You both understand what has happened to the native people. It's those people in our government that have the power to fix the reservation schools and help the people who have addictions that do nothing that I am angry with. They are the same people who can help other races in this country but do nothing but line there own pockets. If you take a hard look, I think you will find that you are angry with the same people. I'm sure this is something we have in common.

As far as you, Solaris or many other white or mixed blood that I meet here, you would be welcomed in my home and I would be honored for you to dance at my side in the circle. Why you ask? Because you and others here have an understanding of what has happened in the past and want to make the future for everyone better. This in my oponion is a very honorable thing and I respect you for that.

Now as far as that "knocking the s*** out of you" comment, Never happen in a million years! However a "warm hug" is in order for someone like you.

I have another oponion that hits me from time to time and should be put in the Hobbiest thread. But since I am here now, I will state it: I don't care if your red, white, black, yellow, green, orange, or even "smurf blue", I encourage you to dance the circle. Just be proud of who and what you are. If asked your background, state the truth. If your not sure of some of your background (might be ndn but can't prove it) state that too. Be honest. That's the best way to be understood by all of us. You will be welcomed for who and what you are as long as you are honest about it. I'll admit to my true heratage and I'm very proud of who and what I am. Here is a hint: Kielbasa on frybread should be a powwow regular!!!

Solaris 01-29-2007 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865322)
It's those people in our government that have the power to fix the reservation schools and help the people who have addictions that do nothing that I am angry with. They are the same people who can help other races in this country but do nothing but line there own pockets. If you take a hard look, I think you will find that you are angry with the same people. I'm sure this is something we have in common.

It is something we have in common. I can sit and complain that our property taxes are through the roof and yadayada, but when we drive through the local reserve to get to the powwow grounds, where the streets aren't even paved, or seeing celebrities on one channel getting free "swag" they can afford to get themselves, then changing the channel and seeing people pick through their New Orleans homes, it really puts things into perspective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865322)
As far as you, Solaris or many other white or mixed blood that I meet here, you would be welcomed in my home and I would be honored for you to dance at my side in the circle. Why you ask? Because you and others here have an understanding of what has happened in the past and want to make the future for everyone better. This in my oponion is a very honorable thing and I respect you for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865322)
I have another oponion that hits me from time to time and should be put in the Hobbiest thread. But since I am here now, I will state it: I don't care if your red, white, black, yellow, green, orange, or even "smurf blue", I encourage you to dance the circle. Just be proud of who and what you are. If asked your background, state the truth. If your not sure of some of your background (might be ndn but can't prove it) state that too. Be honest. That's the best way to be understood by all of us. You will be welcomed for who and what you are as long as you are honest about it. I'll admit to my true heratage and be very proud of who and what I am. Here is a hint: Kielbasa on frybread should be a powwow regular!!!

Thank you, Ken (btw, my name's really Melanie). I've sometimes wanted to dance the intertribals w/ people, but again, I feel I don't belong. I'd likely go if invited, but not before then. The big thing I'd like is to just get to know people and make friends, and even that seems an intimidating endeavor for me...silly, I know.

NorthofAda 01-29-2007 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865322)
Trob,
My comments are not geared to indiviguals, ther are more directed to the government we now have. Yes we are all indiviguals with different oponions. Some people are understanding of the way the native was treted. Others can't get in their head that equal rights is now a law in this country. At one time there were signs posted that said "no blacks allowed", or "no indians can enter". Those signs were change to this: "We have the right to refuse service to anyone".

We as Native Americans are now a minority in our own lands. Now that sound funny doesn't it. People like you and Solaris are the exception to the rule. There are many like you. You both understand what has happened to the native people. It's those people in our government that have the power to fix the reservation schools and help the people who have addictions that do nothing that I am angry with. They are the same people who can help other races in this country but do nothing but line there own pockets. If you take a hard look, I think you will find that you are angry with the same people. I'm sure this is something we have in common.

Unfortunately, the government has been very good at "not teaching" our young the truth about what was done to the NDN people in days gone by. I attended high school and college and I can guarantee you that I heard way more about the Holocaust and what it did to the Jewish people and about the Civil Rights movement and how the blacks were treated than I ever did about NDN affairs. I'm not discounting what happened to those peoples - they went through hell on earth in their day. But, I've recently been studying up on my own ancestors' experience back in the Trail of Tears era and the time of the Dawes Commission. To be honest, I finally had to put the books down because they made me so angry. Treaty after broken treaty - yet our people kept giving in because they still hoped to salvage their heritage and land. In the end, they wound up losing most of the land and who knows how much of the heritage.

I'm thankful that my mother, grandfather and great-grandfather gave me enough education on our people that I now have a foundation on which to build - learning the culture, language, traditions, dances, and hopefully pass that on to my own children. I can also be thankful for folks on this forum, like you TKMJ, who so patiently answer our questions and encourage those of us with mixed heritage to keep on learning.... Yakoke!

TKMJ Productions 01-29-2007 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthofAda (Post 865336)
I can also be thankful for folks on this forum, like you TKMJ, who so patiently answer our questions and encourage those of us with mixed heritage to keep on learning.... Yakoke!

Thankyou for you warm comment. However please remember that I am no type of Elder. I'm just like you searching out my family history and heratage. The good thing is that I have been taught by true Elders and knowlegable people. I only pass on what I feel in my heart is true and correct. It must also make sence to me before I pass it on. What I do pass on is usually common knowlege that anyone can use to make their lives better and help others do the same. It's the only way I can be. Sure I get angry and spout off at times. It's human nature and well what I say. I might just be human LOL!

There are also time that I just can't put in writing what I feel. The words come out all wrong. Please forgive me for that. Sometimes what I say in my head and heart that is very nice, comes out very harsh and mean sounding on paper. I am truely sorry for that. I wish I had a better command of the english language on paper.

bizhiw 01-29-2007 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevy_truckin_NDN (Post 856783)
Hey that's what I'm saying. My niece is 100% native. 1/4 cheyenne, 1/4 hawaiian and 1/2 seneca. And her seneca blood, well, she looks whiter than some of the white girls. So yeah, I can understand that. But I don't look all indian either. I'm 1/2 cheyenne and 1/2 hawaiian, but you can really see my hawaiian blood in me.

I thought Hawaiian people are austronesian...not north american?..........just a thought

trob226 01-29-2007 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865322)
Trob,
My comments are not geared to indiviguals, they are more directed to the government we now have. Yes we are all indiviguals with different oponions. Some people are understanding of the way the native was treted. Others can't get in their head that equal rights is now a law in this country. At one time there were signs posted that said "no blacks allowed", or "no indians can enter". Those signs were change to this: "We have the right to refuse service to anyone". Did you know that the Native American were the last people to have the right to vote in this country? The black population and women had the right long before the ndn.

We as Native Americans are now a minority in our own lands. Now that sound funny doesn't it. People like you and Solaris are the exception to the rule. There are many like you. You both understand what has happened to the native people. It's those people in our government that have the power to fix the reservation schools and help the people who have addictions that do nothing that I am angry with. They are the same people who can help other races in this country but do nothing but line there own pockets. If you take a hard look, I think you will find that you are angry with the same people. I'm sure this is something we have in common.

As far as you, Solaris or many other white or mixed blood that I meet here, you would be welcomed in my home and I would be honored for you to dance at my side in the circle. Why you ask? Because you and others here have an understanding of what has happened in the past and want to make the future for everyone better. This in my oponion is a very honorable thing and I respect you for that.

Now as far as that "knocking the s*** out of you" comment, Never happen in a million years! However a "warm hug" is in order for someone like you.

I have another oponion that hits me from time to time and should be put in the Hobbiest thread. But since I am here now, I will state it: I don't care if your red, white, black, yellow, green, orange, or even "smurf blue", I encourage you to dance the circle. Just be proud of who and what you are. If asked your background, state the truth. If your not sure of some of your background (might be ndn but can't prove it) state that too. Be honest. That's the best way to be understood by all of us. You will be welcomed for who and what you are as long as you are honest about it. I'll admit to my true heratage and I'm very proud of who and what I am. Here is a hint: Kielbasa on frybread should be a powwow regular!!!

Thanks for your thoughts, Ken. Should we ever meet, I'll give that warm hug back to you and yours. And yeah, I'm not much on our government either - constantly disappointing, and not just this administration. North of Ada talked about the Trail of Tears - no different than the Germans herding Jews into railcars, but Americans keep screaming about how Germany needs to face its past while totally denying our own. I try to address that sort of thing among my non-Indian friends when I can, and they are all amazed - they were totally in the dark! Well, I'm rambling, but one final thought - kielbasa on frybread???? Man, pass the Pepto!

trob226 01-29-2007 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865348)
Thankyou for you warm comment. However please remember that I am no type of Elder. I'm just like you searching out my family history and heratage. The good thing is that I have been taught by true Elders and knowlegable people. I only pass on what I feel in my heart is true and correct. It must also make sence to me before I pass it on. What I do pass on is usually common knowlege that anyone can use to make their lives better and help others do the same. It's the only way I can be. Sure I get angry and spout off at times. It's human nature and well what I say. I might just be human LOL!

There are also time that I just can't put in writing what I feel. The words come out all wrong. Please forgive me for that. Sometimes what I say in my head and heart that is very nice, comes out very harsh and mean sounding on paper. I am truely sorry for that. I wish I had a better command of the english language on paper.

You do better than you think you do, especially when you're spouting off. The words come out right when they come from what you really feel, even if it is anger. We can always make up later.

trob226 01-29-2007 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthofAda (Post 865336)
Unfortunately, the government has been very good at "not teaching" our young the truth about what was done to the NDN people in days gone by. I attended high school and college and I can guarantee you that I heard way more about the Holocaust and what it did to the Jewish people and about the Civil Rights movement and how the blacks were treated than I ever did about NDN affairs. I'm not discounting what happened to those peoples - they went through hell on earth in their day. But, I've recently been studying up on my own ancestors' experience back in the Trail of Tears era and the time of the Dawes Commission. To be honest, I finally had to put the books down because they made me so angry. Treaty after broken treaty - yet our people kept giving in because they still hoped to salvage their heritage and land. In the end, they wound up losing most of the land and who knows how much of the heritage.

I'm thankful that my mother, grandfather and great-grandfather gave me enough education on our people that I now have a foundation on which to build - learning the culture, language, traditions, dances, and hopefully pass that on to my own children. I can also be thankful for folks on this forum, like you TKMJ, who so patiently answer our questions and encourage those of us with mixed heritage to keep on learning.... Yakoke!

You're not the only one who gets angry about the Trail of Tears, and I'm not even Cherokee. Despicable, despicable, despicable,and mainstream America ought to be made aware of every detail of that removal and all the others. Some shame would be good for the American soul.

TKMJ Productions 01-29-2007 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trob226 (Post 865380)
but one final thought - kielbasa on frybread???? Man, pass the Pepto!

NO PEPTO! NDN MAN HAVE CAST IRON BELLY! PEPSI PLEASE!!!:pepsi000:

TKMJ Productions 01-29-2007 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trob226 (Post 865387)
You do better than you think you do, especially when you're spouting off. The words come out right when they come from what you really feel, even if it is anger. We can always make up later.


:fight: :KISS001: :friends:

Solaris 01-29-2007 11:29 PM

Lol! Cast iron belly...riiiight...then you'll wonder why you got yourself an ulcer a decade from now...;)

TKMJ Productions 01-29-2007 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solaris (Post 865415)
Lol! Cast iron belly...riiiight...then you'll wonder why you got yourself an ulcer a decade from now...;)

Hey Solaris, Your almost old enough to by my daughter. Stop acting like one or I have to claim you as one. Gee Whis girl!!! Don't you know that I have a clean bill of health and yes I am a smoker. I even got clear lungs. I'm only about 5 pounds over weight and my wife sez I still have a great looking butt. See under the bustle does count!!!!! It's not just the long flowing hair.

The trick in not getting an ulcer is to eat right and not worry too much. So no Pepto for me!!!! If I took that pink stuff I would end up with a "Pepto Ulcer"!!!!!!


Now stop acting like my daughter, unless you want to be adopted!!!!!!!!!!:hypnotize

Solaris 01-30-2007 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865428)
Don't you know that I have a clean bill of health and yes I am a smoker. I even got clear lungs.

A smoker with clear lungs? Now that's an oxymoron if ever I heard one...Well aren't daugters supposed to nag their dads? :hypocrite

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865428)
Now stop acting like my daughter, unless you want to be adopted!!!!!!!!!!:hypnotize

:shades_sm So since I'm almost old enough to be your daughter, you can't me more than 50, right? A pretty hip middle-aged dude if you ask me. :angel:

TKMJ Productions 01-30-2007 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solaris (Post 865440)
In that case, if I'm almost old enough to be your daughter, you can't me more than 50? A pretty hip middle-aged dude if you ask me. :angel:


BING BONG DING DONG!!!!!!! You lose the guessing game. Can't be more then 50? Well you are a Libra with a birth date only 3 days away from mine. Right now you are about 26 give or take a year. You were born in 1981 On October 10.


Now my age, I am over 50. I'm an old man in a young mans body. LOL! My body is under 50 so you get 1/2 credit.

Actually I think I am 51. Can't really remember cause I'm so old. LOL!!!!!!!!!! MY kids range from 13 to 28 so I guess you qualify. And oh yes, I gots me a grandbaby that's a real snot cause I made him that way. I'm getting even with my kids. LOL!!! I loves my grandbaby and spoil him rotten. When I'm done spoiling the tar out of him, I send him home LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Solaris 01-30-2007 01:02 AM

So make me a liar for 1 lousy year, you crumbum! Lmao!

And you're a granddaddy?? Wow...my dad's 62 and nowhere near being a grandpa. Gotta make you feel old huh? :lol: Just playin'!

Nice you can see my birthday, gender, age, whatever...but all i can see is that you work w/ a sound company??? Hmph!

TKMJ Productions 01-30-2007 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solaris (Post 865457)
So make me a liar for 1 lousy year, you crumbum! Lmao!

And you're a granddaddy?? Wow...my dad's 62 and nowhere near being a grandpa. Gotta make you feel old huh? :lol: Just playin'!

Nice you can see my birthday, gender, age, whatever...but all i can see is that you work w/ a sound company??? Hmph!

Sorry kid, you lost the under/over part of the game. I guess you don't gamble. At least I gave you 1/2 credit. Gimmy a break! I'm an old man. Even my son sez so. I hear him talk all the time. He sez the "old man" won't let me have the car tonight. See that proves it. It has be claitified by people who know. Even my wife agrees. She always sez "Hey old man wanna go shopping?" I usually decline. I hate shopping. Can't stand the malls. Those places are a mad house. I'm a walmart kinda guy who can shop in 20min. tops. In - out and back on the streets. If it's not on the list, it doesn't get looked at.

Now about that sound company I work at. I love what I do so much that I think I still own it. I'm the "K" in TKMJ The "T" is my wife, the "M" is my daughter and the "J" is out last name. My wife the "T" always comes first and the "T" and the "K" worked together to make the "M". We all actually have the same last name too. Wow what a concept!!!!!


WoW!!!! You got your pic up there now! You are a cute one!

trob226 01-30-2007 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865402)
:fight: :KISS001: :friends:

Where do you get these smilies? LOL! And since I'm older than you, you can quit this "old man" stuff. I'm no old woman. And since your wife has verified you have a good butt, you can't possibly be considered old.

Solaris 01-30-2007 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865468)
I'm an old man. Even my son sez so. I hear him talk all the time. He sez the "old man" won't let me have the car tonight. See that proves it. It has be claitified by people who know. Even my wife agrees. She always sez "Hey old man wanna go shopping?"

Hey, 51 is not old and you should be one of the first to say that. What do kids know, huh? Or wives for that matter...Now 80...that's old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865468)
I usually decline. I hate shopping. Can't stand the malls. Those places are a mad house. I'm a walmart kinda guy who can shop in 20min. tops. In - out and back on the streets. If it's not on the list, it doesn't get looked at.

Few men can stand shopping, nothing new there. But who's gonna carry our bags and purses for us while we try on those pretty dresses you like to see us wear? :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865468)
Now about that sound company I work at. I love what I do so much that I think I still own it. I'm the "K" in TKMJ The "T" is my wife, the "M" is my daughter and the "J" is out last name. My wife the "T" always comes first and the "T" and the "K" worked together to make the "M". We all actually have the same last name too. Wow what a concept!!!!!

That's awesome, an outright family business. So, if you don't own the company anymore, has it been handed down to your daughter? I hope she appreciates it as much as you seem to.

I myself am still in school - 2nd year Psychology major hoping to get into marriage counseling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 865468)
WoW!!!! You got your pic up there now! You are a cute one!

Why thank you kind sir. You sure are a flatterer...now if only your 25-year-old counterparts felt the same way. :confused_


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:20 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright 2006, PowWows.com, LLC