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Old 08-19-2010, 07:38 AM   #641
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***** white *****! The whole lot of them. Why can't they just stick to ballet or square dancing?

Last edited by wyo_rose; 08-19-2010 at 09:56 AM.. Reason: Sorry dude, gotta edit that out. No name calling.
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Old 08-19-2010, 11:39 AM   #642
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Originally Posted by Ta'neeszahnii Techno View Post
I thought I was the only one that did this!!


For me, that's one of the signs of a good powwow - when I see myself in the shower that evening and I scare myself by lookin' like I'm "ready to drop" at any moment!
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Old 08-19-2010, 11:41 AM   #643
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what?! not me


er, (cough, cough) no comment!
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Old 08-19-2010, 11:46 AM   #644
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Maria Tallchief/Wa-Xthe-Thomba and Rudolf Nureyev

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Old 08-19-2010, 01:21 PM   #645
Ugh. As. If.
 
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er, (cough, cough) no comment!
would you very much for me to whip you now?



ha ha ha ha ha
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Old 08-19-2010, 08:11 PM   #646
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@harmonyzdawn -

It is sad for you that you feel that you can poke fun at others - no matter the race or even within your own race. You may find that those people that you are poking fun at only wish to pay their respects to a beautiful culture.
As stated, I have Native American and a good dose of it as I was told. However, being adopted makes it impossible to trace this. I never dance because I have no desire to. Reason? I am well aware that each dance has meaning and history - I can learn the steps, but it is worthless without knowing the history. I never try to be Native American because even if its in me, that is not how I was raised and it is not familiar with me. However, all of these things I would love to learn more about, but people who feel as you do will never fully allow that. I am only glad that the hundreds of wonderful Native Americans or in your case, Canadians & Mexican's, that I have met over the many years of professional work with powwows have been different than what you are describing- they are very beautiful and wonderful people who will allow genuine, pure questions for the purpose of learning vs scorn and ridicule to someone who wants to truly learn what they can.
Its a damn shame and sickening to think of what was wiped out by settlers - I just wish you didn't take it out on everyone person who has European ancestry - they had no choice in the matter.

Last edited by nejnna; 08-19-2010 at 08:20 PM..
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:19 AM   #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nejnna View Post
@harmonyzdawn -

It is sad for you that you feel that you can poke fun at others - no matter the race or even within your own race.

With all due respect, but I disagree. Read what you wrote down below about not knowing Native ways. Your mentality is and always will be white. In the white culture, making fun of yourself, or another, is disrespectful. Ever stood around a bunch of skins as they're cracking (not to be confused with crackering) on each other? Do you know the reason they can poke fun at each other and not get mad? According to your remarks...no. You think white.



You may find that those people that you are poking fun at only wish to pay their respects to a beautiful culture.
As stated, I have Native American and a good dose of it as I was told. However, being adopted makes it impossible to trace this. I never dance because I have no desire to. Reason? I am well aware that each dance has meaning and history - I can learn the steps, but it is worthless without knowing the history. I never try to be Native American because even if its in me, that is not how I was raised and it is not familiar with me. However, all of these things I would love to learn more about, but people who feel as you do will never fully allow that. I am only glad that the hundreds of wonderful Native Americans or in your case, Canadians & Mexican's,

that I have met over the many years of professional work with powwows

Again not to be disrespectful, but where are these powwows where u work 'professionally'?





have been different than what you are describing- they are very beautiful and wonderful people who will allow genuine, pure questions for the purpose of learning vs scorn and ridicule to someone who wants to truly learn what they can.


Its a damn shame and sickening to think of what was wiped out by settlers - I just wish you didn't take it out on everyone person who has European ancestry - they had no choice in the matter.


This is the typical answer heard many times. Our feelings have nothing to do with what was done by your forefathers...it is the feeling we have from what is done by whites TODAY! As you state, you are white and will never be Native. We are Native and will never be white. Many of us are educated, live in urban America and work in a professional environments. We listen to the tipi, pocahontas, wampum, reservation, (add whatever hell other remark you want here) remarks almost every day. WE LIVE WITH THIS RACISM (is this poking fun?) EVERY DAY. There are times we want to be with our own kind to share our culture. Today, it's being infiltrated by a bunch of whites wanting to 'honor and respect your culture'. Respect our culture...and us...by staying away. We don't need you and many don't want you.
Damn JD, you wrote like a white person!!!

Disclaimer: JD gets along with every race. I've played baseball with an all-black team and hunted with an all-white club hunting club (they had guns n real bullets!!!). Met good and bad people everywhere. I try to be respectful to all. That's what old people do.
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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

Mr. Rossie Freeman
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Old 08-20-2010, 09:28 AM   #648
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maybe i am just a cold, emotionless m*therf*cker, but the only time ive been brought to tears at a powwow was when the taco stand ran out of cheese...
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:42 AM   #649
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Nejnna, as a mixed-blood woman who has earned a PhD in the hard sciences and an ex-college instructor, I've spent a lot of my life navigating intragroup rituals and modes of communication.

The guys (all white, middle-class, college educated) in one lab where I worked greeted each other every morning with an airy greeting that taken literally was a question about their state of sexual arousal. (I suspect JD is having a good laugh just how many "writin' like a white man" words I used to describe a 3 word greeting.) I'll never forget the tension when one morning the greeting was accidentally offered to a gay male researcher.

The point of this is to illustrate that what is in one group an innocuous exchange, becomes different when it crosses cultural lines. While powwows.com and real powwows are, in general, public events that welcome all comers. They are as JD said, Indian time for Indian people. With that comes playing by our rules. This means we tease - hard. And we vent tension and anger at the dominant culture sometimes.

People who spend all their time immersed in dominant culture tend to be very tender to what the perceive as offenses being dished up without even apology. Indeed not a week goes by on here without someone chiding us for not being nice by their "universal" standards of behavior. If you, as a well raised member of the dominant culture, went to a different country, you would be unlikely to even expect that the natives would obey the same manners, rules and customs you do back home. Yet they come to our events and demand we conform to their standards of behavior. And share our intellectual and spiritual property without reservation, even if it violates standards of appropriate behavior in our culture. It is only a matter of degree from shearing of braids and forced conversions of the boarding schools.

Try what we do in a new circumstance, sit quietly. Watch, listen and learn -- which in our culture is done with the eyes and the ears, not the mouth. Map out the terrain before trying to navigate.

OK, I'm done acting according to the mores of the teacher, who can't let a teachable moment pass.

Last edited by OLChemist; 08-20-2010 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:07 PM   #650
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YA KNOW.... OLChemist might be the smartest person i Don't know.
She is forever .."dropping Knowledge" on folks.

Regardless of culture or race, we should all strive to be as wise as she is.
Alot of folks have "book Knowledge" but cant apply it to anything.
Not our girl OLChemist.
Carry-on
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:21 PM   #651
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*blush*
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:12 PM   #652
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The guys (all white, middle-class, college educated) in one lab where I worked greeted each other every morning with an airy greeting that taken literally was a question about their state of sexual arousal. (I suspect JD is having a good laugh just how many "writin' like a white man" words I used to describe a 3 word greeting.) I'll never forget the tension when one morning the greeting was accidentally offered to a gay male researcher.

how's it hanging ?
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:21 PM   #653
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oh.. I was thinking "are you hard?" hahahaha just kidding.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:31 PM   #654
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What up?
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:38 PM   #655
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maybe ol chemist should host the new mystery word game lol
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:47 PM   #656
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"wanna touch it?" "check this out" "sup big boy?" "high noon already?" "stand and salute" just a few guesses.. Sorry to get off topic
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:56 PM   #657
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well now it sounds like the the other thread
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Last edited by 2lineCarrandMorgan; 08-20-2010 at 02:03 PM..
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:53 PM   #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostsalt View Post
YA KNOW.... OLChemist might be the smartest person i Don't know.
She is forever .."dropping Knowledge" on folks.

Regardless of culture or race, we should all strive to be as wise as she is.
Alot of folks have "book Knowledge" but cant apply it to anything.
Not our girl OLChemist.
Carry-on
OLChemist is the smartest person I don't know too!

I heartily agree that REAL powwows are Indian time for Indian people.
But it's slightly different here at powwows.com. While most forums are for Indians doing Indian stuff, and Spectators is the forum for white people to ask questions, there are going to be some white people chiming in on the other forums a lot of the time.

I can't find the forum posting rules, but we should all have respect for each otherz.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:07 PM   #659
its to cold up here
 
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Ya know everybody I work with as at least one post grad degree, and Ol' is still the smartest person I have heard today...

Dang......
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:27 PM   #660
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JD -
I never said that I wanted to be Native, did I? I never have attempted to be Native.

I photograph in OH, NY & VA - I will be at the Great Mohican this year if you are there. Although I doubt you would be a pleasant person to run into.
My husband is foreign born, and I would never expect to go to his country and have them conform to me - ever - I am not that stupid.

How wrong of him to be naturalized and defend this country because he is not Euro if we are going along with this thinking. He is more respectable than many whites, that is why I married him - He is in a non combat unit to avoid tramping on someone else's culture - He is in Air Defense - So I guess he can never measure up to whites, right?

I see that this place is not open to 100% Indian blooded people, so I will leave - All I wanted to do was to learn, and I really wanted to be of some assistance in bringing to light all the injustices done to Native Cultures by white people - I see it quite a bit, and it hit home with an in-depth conversation in Salamanca, NY. I respect peoples thoughts and I expect the same - If I am fundamentally wrong, show me - not shred me.

I suppose that was inexcusable and white of me to try to volunteer my graphics skills to even see if there was anyway for me to bring some of these things into the mainstream awareness.

I also see that the 2 month long road, cross country trip to visit as many of the Native battle sites and lay gifts on the graves of the fallen Natives in order to pay my own respects was "wrong" because I am "white" and can't possibly really care after all.

I never expect anyone to conform to the ways I am used to.....you are seriously underestimating me.


@OL -
Thank you for your remarks - I always welcome a teaching moment when done in a nice spirit.
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