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Old 01-27-2007, 08:17 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by indianjoe1946 View Post
QUOTE]


I used to Bowl.......had a 190 average at one time. TKMJ......does it really help to visualize the pins that way ? Maybe I could raise my average, eh ?
I sees what I sees and what I sees right now is Sees Candies!

I miss living out west LOL!

Heck if I know if you can raise your adv. I just look at the dots and arrows. I'm too old to see them cowboys any more LOL!
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:29 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions View Post
I sees what I sees and what I sees right now is Sees Candies!

I miss living out west LOL!

Heck if I know if you can raise your adv. I just look at the dots and arrows. I'm too old to see them cowboys any more LOL!


Yeah....the ole eyes ain't what they used to be.....need more lines every day, eh !
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Old 01-28-2007, 12:11 PM   #103
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Yeah....the ole eyes ain't what they used to be.....need more lines every day, eh !
Funny you should say that. My eyes went south at about 40. Back then I needed glasses. At about 43 I needed bifocals. Right now I use them dime store granny glasses for reading. So I guess I'm up to the trifocal. Do they make a quadrafocal? LOL!!!! I have fallen into that dreaded trap of "CSS" (can't see squat). If I say the other word you'll see this (&*#$) LOL!!!

Actually all I need is a 48" flat screen TV I can use as my computer display. I'm taking donations to help a poor old blind ndn get what he needs to see what you say here. Besides the display will make my computer game more lifelike.

LOL!!!!

Have a great day!

Ken
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Old 01-28-2007, 12:45 PM   #104
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I've been on graduated bifocals since I was 40 - they cost more, but you get all the points in between, not just one for near and one for far. I still have to take them off entirely to do very close work, but my husband really is blind, so I count my blessings. What I really HATE though is when I turn to back up the car and my position has me looking OVER my glasses entirely - can't see a thing - so make sure you're never standing anywhere near my car when I'm backing up.
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Old 01-28-2007, 01:20 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by trob226 View Post
I've been on graduated bifocals since I was 40 - they cost more, but you get all the points in between, not just one for near and one for far. I still have to take them off entirely to do very close work, but my husband really is blind, so I count my blessings. What I really HATE though is when I turn to back up the car and my position has me looking OVER my glasses entirely - can't see a thing - so make sure you're never standing anywhere near my car when I'm backing up.
Thanks for the info Trob. I'll be sure to stay far away. I don't want to become one of them "road pizzas".
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Old 01-28-2007, 06:34 PM   #106
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Question

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Originally Posted by ojibwecommodbod View Post
and pay the folks u take pictures of.
Wow, interesting thread - I may have more to say on the topic later, but I saw this blurb and had to question it first.

Since when do you have to pay a dancer to take their picture. I admit, I've only been to a handful of powwows, but in that time, I've taken pictures of many native dancers who graciously agreed to pose and not one asked, implied, nor stuck out their hand to be paid. Is this a new thing or does it only happen in the States? (I'm in Southern MB, Canada...and yes, I'm white.)
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Old 01-28-2007, 06:50 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
Wow, interesting thread - I may have more to say on the topic later, but I saw this blurb and had to question it first.

Since when do you have to pay a dancer to take their picture. I admit, I've only been to a handful of powwows, but in that time, I've taken pictures of many native dancers who graciously agreed to pose and not one asked, implied, nor stuck out their hand to be paid. Is this a new thing or does it only happen in the States? (I'm in Southern MB, Canada...and yes, I'm white.)
This is not ment to harm or in any way cut you down. It is just to anwser your questions.

Think about this:
Do you tip a server at a restuarunt for their service? Do you tip the cab driver that provided you transportation? Do you tip the guy who parks your car at one of those upscale hotels? Do you tip the paperboy for good service? (lost job here) Do you take care of people who help you?

Then why not put a few bucks in the hand of the ndn in regulia that poses with your loved ones for that Kodak moment. He or she did provide you a service. They were nice and accomadated your request. Sure they asked for nothing. Any self respecting ndn would not ask. Howerer the offer by you would be a great gesture.

Remember, you are taking home the memory on film to share with others. What is the ndn taking home to his loved ones?

Ken
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Old 01-28-2007, 06:55 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by savysun View Post
i think powwows should be for everyone....it seems like a form of art where all (well, maybe it's mainly for indians) people come to dance together. i'm not indian, i'm asian and i definitely enjoy everything about powwow. sorry, i don't travel much and i've been to only a few powwows. i love the indian culture ever since i was a kid. i've never been to a rez nor met a real live indian yet.
You sound sorta like me...although I have been to a reserve and have met several Natives, I still sometimes feel out of place at powwows. Granted, most of the time, it's my own shyness and insecurity, fearing they don't think I should be there. But if you just suck it up and talk to them, they're like anybody else, really nice if you engage them. And just like anybody else, sometimes you'll end up taking to one who'll make you feel like an idiot for asking them stuff, but so what? I get that from the geeky white guy at the PC store too, when I ask why I can't get a PC w/ 1 GB of Ram for under $1500.

It doesn't deter me from going to powwows every once in a while though, mostly if they're within an hour from where I live. It also helps that I find native men VERY attactive...that's admittedly another big reason why I go...
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:02 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions View Post
This is not ment to harm or in any way cut you down. It is just to anwser your questions.
Ok...listening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions View Post
Do you tip a server at a restuarunt for their service? Do you tip the cab driver that provided you transportation? Do you tip the guy who parks your car at one of those upscale hotels? Do you tip the paperboy for good service? (lost job here) Do you take care of people who help you?
This is a little confusing to me...All the people you mentioned are doing a job for money, many of the jobs you listed are done just to get by and are not really enjoyed by the people who do them. Aren't Natives who dance and take the time to dress in their regalia doing it for the love of their culture and because they're proud? Since when is that to be likened to a busboy????

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Then why not put a few bucks in the hand of the ndn in regulia that poses with your loved ones for that Kodak moment. He or she did provide you a service. They were nice and accomadated your request. Sure they asked for nothing. Any self respecting ndn would not ask. Howerer the offer by you would be a great gesture.

Remember, you are taking home the memory on film to share with others. What is the ndn taking home to his loved ones?

Ken
I've never asked a Native to pose w/ a loved one, I only ask them to pose themselves, with one of their own loved ones if they want, to document their gorgeous dance outfits.

Now, I've had many people, Natives included, ask me for directions, ask for the time, ask for any number of favors...should I get tips those times too? I'm fulfilling a request too, aren't I?

I don't wanna sound ignorant, and I'm sorry if I do...it just doesn't make sense to me that I have to tip a man for taking his picture...
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:06 PM   #110
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all that aside.... at least you can spell powwow. the guy who started this thread couldnt even do that. should be worth some rep points
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:07 PM   #111
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It also helps that I find native men VERY attactive...that's admittedly another big reason why I go...
Sorry Solaris, I'm taken. However I do understand what you are talking about. In my younger years I was chased by a few white women. It made me feel really great. Ah the memories of those good times.

I'll give you a hint on why us ndn men look so great. It's what's under the bustle. LOL!

Have a great day!

Ken
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:11 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions View Post
Sorry Solaris, I'm taken. However I do understand what you are talking about. In my younger years I was chased by a few white women. It made me feel really great. Ah the memories of those good times.

I'll give you a hint on why us ndn men look so great. It's what's under the bustle. LOL!

Have a great day!

Ken
Drat, taken...the good one's are always taken!

Thank you for this comment, you totally made my day, Ken! For me, it's the hair...I love a guy w/ long hair.

And that's good to know that you liked being chased by those white women, it gives me hope for the next powwow I go to if a certain young native man is there...
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:26 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
I've never asked a Native to pose w/ a loved one, I only ask them to pose themselves, with one of their own loved ones if they want, to document their gorgeous dance outfits.

Now, I've had many people, Natives included, ask me for directions, ask for the time, ask for any number of favors...should I get tips those times too? I'm fulfilling a request too, aren't I?

I don't wanna sound ignorant, and I'm sorry if I do...it just doesn't make sense to me that I have to tip a man for taking his picture...
You don't have to tip the one who poses for you. It's just a nice thing to do. Some do and some don't pass a few bucks for the picture. I have had many pictures taken and never asked for a dime. I have also had people take my picture and slip a few dollars in my hand. When I was younger the extra cash sure helped out traveling from powwow to powwow. Sometimes it was all I had to eat or travel on.

You must also look at what you are getting in the process. A nice picture that you can keep to yourself or show to others of what you were doing. The ndn has nothing except for knowing that he did a nice thing for you. Back when I had my picture taken a lot (when I was young and a hunk, now I'm just a middleaged ndn who lost his six pack LOL), I really enjoyed it because I knew people would look at the picture and see what traditional regulia looked like.

Remember there is no requirment for a monatary gesture. It's just a nice thing to do.
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:28 PM   #114
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I just love the title of this thread. The topic has veered off in several different directions and that's cool. Good thread. Poor, poor misunderstood White people would have been another good title to this thread.
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:49 PM   #115
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I just love the title of this thread. The topic has veered off in several different directions and that's cool. Good thread. Poor, poor misunderstood White people would have been another good title to this thread.
I gotta agree with you. Howerer you need to look at the question from their point of view. Most don't understand the the white man has stripped us of our culture. How could that have happened they say to themselves. The whites of today are shedding their culture while we are trying to regain ours. Most white cultures are still intact because of the countries the whites have come from.

The white cultures are written in text by whites, while most of our cultures were also written in text by the white man. The white text concerning our cultures is somewhat tainted by their thoughts. Therefor our history is also tainted with the ideals of the white. It is very hard to find the truth about our culture.

Do you understand where I am trying to go with this? My words may not be correct in what I am trying to say. However if you look at the intent you may understand. I may be going in circles here.

Ken
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Old 01-28-2007, 08:43 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions View Post
I gotta agree with you. Howerer you need to look at the question from their point of view. Most don't understand the the white man has stripped us of our culture. How could that have happened they say to themselves. The whites of today are shedding their culture while we are trying to regain ours. Most white cultures are still intact because of the countries the whites have come from.

The white cultures are written in text by whites, while most of our cultures were also written in text by the white man. The white text concerning our cultures is somewhat tainted by their thoughts. Therefor our history is also tainted with the ideals of the white. It is very hard to find the truth about our culture.

Do you understand where I am trying to go with this? My words may not be correct in what I am trying to say. However if you look at the intent you may understand. I may be going in circles here.

Ken
I follow what you're saying, Ken, but I think you're trying to make a point that's important and I don't think you quite got there, or if you did, I didn't get it. Not being Native, I might not have the right frame of reference. Are trying to say that white people today don't quite get what any kind of "culture" is and therefore think they can get it from books and slide right into their culture of choice? Yeah, some white people are like that, I agree, but some aren't. Some of us know how our white ancestors got here and what some of them did to your ancestors (and to some of mine) and are almost too ashamed to face it. It's like being part German (I am) and having to swallow the fact that part of your ancestral culture came up with Hitler and his cronies. And if I've gotten your point all wrong - nevermind....
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Old 01-28-2007, 09:05 PM   #117
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I follow what you're saying, Ken, but I think you're trying to make a point that's important and I don't think you quite got there, or if you did, I didn't get it. Not being Native, I might not have the right frame of reference. Are trying to say that white people today don't quite get what any kind of "culture" is and therefore think they can get it from books and slide right into their culture of choice? Yeah, some white people are like that, I agree, but some aren't. Some of us know how our white ancestors got here and what some of them did to your ancestors (and to some of mine) and are almost too ashamed to face it. It's like being part German (I am) and having to swallow the fact that part of your ancestral culture came up with Hitler and his cronies. And if I've gotten your point all wrong - nevermind....
Trob,
Thanks for the help. I think what I am trying to say is the the whites came to this country many years ago to escape their way of life and oppression from their leaders. That's a given. However the cultures of the white man are being shed or at least changing due to the "Americanazation" (i think that's a correct word, may be misspelled too) of the white people. While on the other hand the native population on North America has been stripped away from its culture due to wars and oppression by the white population that has over run North America.

I'm not talking about the changes in government systems like from the king of Germany into the rise of the Third Reich. That's the political structure. I'm talking about the cultural structure and it changes.

Gee Whiz!!!!! Sometimes I just can't find the right words. It's so frustraiting sometimes for me. You can say the words but it come out so different on paper.
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Old 01-28-2007, 09:26 PM   #118
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Interesting point about Americanization of white people - those of us born and raised here, even first generations, have little or nothing in common with white people in Europe. And when you put so many cultures together in one area, like the US, cultures do get shed or stripped or both until new cultures form. This white American culture is still too infantile in general - has so much to learn, needs to grow out of being so ego-centric that it thinks everybody should be like it or they're nuts. I'm very hopeful for Indian culture in general to revive and surge again, but I'm also aware it won't be exactly the same culture as existed 100 years ago, anymore than anybody else's culture is the same as it was 100 years ago. What I think will surge is the strong sense of community, sense of connection to the earth and the Creator, and I'm hopeful for that despite the very real threats of poverty, drugs and drink. What I wish, and this may be controversial, is that Indians were not so suspicious of white motives sometimes. I know, whites have earned that suspicion and then some, but white American culture could only benefit from what Indian culture has to teach it, if we could only find a way to get beyond the past, get white culture to grow up and perhaps Indians could trust at least individual white people more, rather than assume a white person's motives are bad. Now I'm rambling on...sorry.
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:14 PM   #119
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Interesting point about Americanization of white people - those of us born and raised here, even first generations, have little or nothing in common with white people in Europe. And when you put so many cultures together in one area, like the US, cultures do get shed or stripped or both until new cultures form. This white American culture is still too infantile in general - has so much to learn, needs to grow out of being so ego-centric that it thinks everybody should be like it or they're nuts. I'm very hopeful for Indian culture in general to revive and surge again, but I'm also aware it won't be exactly the same culture as existed 100 years ago, anymore than anybody else's culture is the same as it was 100 years ago. What I think will surge is the strong sense of community, sense of connection to the earth and the Creator, and I'm hopeful for that despite the very real threats of poverty, drugs and drink. What I wish, and this may be controversial, is that Indians were not so suspicious of white motives sometimes. I know, whites have earned that suspicion and then some, but white American culture could only benefit from what Indian culture has to teach it, if we could only find a way to get beyond the past, get white culture to grow up and perhaps Indians could trust at least individual white people more, rather than assume a white person's motives are bad. Now I'm rambling on...sorry.
Trob,

Keep rambling! Your saying exactly what I am trying to say. You found the right words.

Keep it up!!!!!

Ken
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Old 01-28-2007, 11:13 PM   #120
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Trob,

Keep rambling! Your saying exactly what I am trying to say. You found the right words.

Keep it up!!!!!

Ken
OK, if you don't mind, I'll follow my train of thought a little farther. White American culture, compared to Indian culture, is like a bunch of misbehaving pre-adolescents running over their elders. It's just too young. It won't listen to the wisdom of the older cultures around it and just runs them down if they get in the way. Indian cultures, far older, got run down, got up again, got run down again, got up again and are now sick and tired of the little upstart. But the kids are too quick to grab and shake. The elders can only try to keep from being run over yet again. How do we get the kids to stop and listen to the elders? How do we get the elders to want to try to grab the kids who are slowing down?
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