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Old 06-12-2012, 10:57 PM   #1
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card caring and non card caring

question from a newbie
if a pow-wow is put on by people who claim to be native follow all of the teachings and lessons from their elders and chiefs and children and everything to the best of their ability yet have no card, does this mean they are not a native american? are they all possers or if they are honestly following their bieliefs and they way that their ancestors did it are they just non res born?
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:20 PM   #2
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There are "powwows" in Poland and Germany "put on" by non-Natives....are these still powwows?

These europeans are definitely not Natives, just hobbyists.

As Wanjica would say: It's not what tribe YOU claim, it's what TRIBE CLAIMS you. CDIB card or not.
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
There are "powwows" in Poland and Germany "put on" by non-Natives....are these still powwows?

These europeans are definitely not Natives, just hobbyists.

As Wanjica would say: It's not what tribe YOU claim, it's what TRIBE CLAIMS you. CDIB card or not.

wanishi (lenapi for thank you)
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:38 PM   #4
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It would help if you finished school and learned how to spell "carrying."
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:21 PM   #5
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It would help if you finished school and learned how to spell "carrying."
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:52 PM   #6
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ok

powwows are tectonically not a european thing. europeans only put it on for exploitation. i would never go to any powwow or participate in any powwow in europe. the whole european powwow is a bunch of crock no offense..
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:10 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by delila77 View Post
powwows are tectonically not a european thing. europeans only put it on for exploitation. i would never go to any powwow or participate in any powwow in europe. the whole european powwow is a bunch of crock no offense..
the same with me and powwows in Ohio, they're a bunch of crock, no offense...
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Iowa_Boy View Post
the same with me and powwows in Ohio, they're a bunch of crock, no offense...
none taken there, i don't even bother going to ohio powwows. michigan ones are better. im sorry i dont wanna go to a powwow that has guys in roadkill hats and fake eagle feathers and imported psuedo beadwork...darn imported junk leave it to us real natives who do real beadwork...
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:23 AM   #9
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Every powwow I ever go to I card my cards:
My Identification card, so's when the Police want to roust us up, I don't go to jail for being illegal
My bank card, for purchasing that wonder Pima frybread.
and plenty of business cards of the many vendors whose stuff is authentic and quality.

Aint nothign wrong with being a card carrying powwow.
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:04 PM   #10
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well

powwows arent technically meant to be card carrying it wasnt until contest and competition came into factor that the whole card carrying came about. theres many legit natives out there who can't have their papers for some reason such as children put into foster homes, documents being burnt due to fires etc...but know who they are and have community ties. u know we have whipman for reason to pull out those type wannabes before they enter grande entry. wannabe's with road kill hats are always gunna be at the powwows whereever u go. but i dont think its kewl to exclude those who don't have their card. and since when is it our job to dictate who can dance and who can't?
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delila77 View Post
powwows arent technically meant to be card carrying it wasnt until contest and competition came into factor that the whole card carrying came about. theres many legit natives out there who can't have their papers for some reason such as children put into foster homes, documents being burnt due to fires etc...but know who they are and have community ties. u know we have whipman for reason to pull out those type wannabes before they enter grande entry. wannabe's with road kill hats are always gunna be at the powwows whereever u go. but i dont think its kewl to exclude those who don't have their card. and since when is it our job to dictate who can dance and who can't?
For those communities that require cards, it's their pow-wow, their rules. They can dictate anything they want.. that's what tribal sovereignity is all about.

Next there will be an expectation that all pow-wows should have more intertribals than dance categories.

If someone has lost or misplaced their card or ID, then they need to go get it re-issued. It's not that hard. The funny thing is, the tribal council and membership folks usually know who is who in the tribe. If the person has community ties, then it should not be a problem to get their ID sorted out.

CDIB certificates aren't that hard to get either. Most pow-wows that want cards accept these certificates as well. If ya got the blood, then you get the certificate.

(oh and by the way, I am somewhat offended that you have referred to those who wear animal skins on their headresses to be only wannabes. My peoples often have animal skins on their headresses - we do love our ermine skins ... just be careful of what and who you generalize over...)

The photo is a Tlingit elder with a wolf headdress, the back of it is a wolf pelt complete with legs and paws. I'd like to see you tell him he has a roadkill on his head.
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:20 PM   #12
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the same with me and powwows in Ohio, they're a bunch of crock, no offense...
Occasionally, you don't bother with subtle...
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaahl View Post
For those communities that require cards, it's their pow-wow, their rules. They can dictate anything they want.. that's what tribal sovereignity is all about.

Next there will be an expectation that all pow-wows should have more intertribals than dance categories.

If someone has lost or misplaced their card or ID, then they need to go get it re-issued. It's not that hard. The funny thing is, the tribal council and membership folks usually know who is who in the tribe. If the person has community ties, then it should not be a problem to get their ID sorted out.

CDIB certificates aren't that hard to get either. Most pow-wows that want cards accept these certificates as well. If ya got the blood, then you get the certificate.

(oh and by the way, I am somewhat offended that you have referred to those who wear animal skins on their headresses to be only wannabes. My peoples often have animal skins on their headresses - we do love our ermine skins ... just be careful of what and who you generalize over...)

The photo is a Tlingit elder with a wolf headdress, the back of it is a wolf pelt complete with legs and paws. I'd like to see you tell him he has a roadkill on his head.
A. im not generalizing. if you ever been to ohio powwows you would know what i mean.aparently you havent been . we have alot of white folks guys wearing coon hats and imported beadwork at our powwows.
B. many of our men (osage) wear ermine too.
before you dictate to me you should ask me to clarify that would be the nicer thing to do.
C. i know they have there rules but it doesnt mean i have to agree with the idea of carding. i don't feel its necessary for me to take my card with me everywhere i go. but again that just me.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:17 PM   #14
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how come we don't have a butthurt smilie? or are they only available to card caring folks?
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delila77 View Post
A. im not generalizing. if you ever been to ohio powwows you would know what i mean.aparently you havent been . we have alot of white folks guys wearing coon hats and imported beadwork at our powwows.
B. many of our men (osage) wear ermine too.
before you dictate to me you should ask me to clarify that would be the nicer thing to do.
C. i know they have there rules but it doesnt mean i have to agree with the idea of carding. i don't feel its necessary for me to take my card with me everywhere i go. but again that just me.
Here's the thing, this is a written format, you get loads of opportunity to say exactly what you mean, you can even go back and edit your posts if you don't think you were clear enough.

I believe that if you want to say something, then say it and mean it. Taking an antigonistic position over being called on something that you wrote and saying that it needed clarification is another form of back peddling.

Now about assumptions. I'm confused by your posts. I note that you refer to "our" powows yet in an earlier post you set out that you don't attend them in Ohio. So which is it? Are they your pow wows or not? How would you know what people wear in Ohio if you don't attend any of them?

You said,
Quote:
none taken there, i don't even bother going to ohio powwows. michigan ones are better. im sorry i dont wanna go to a powwow that has guys in roadkill hats and fake eagle feathers and imported psuedo beadwork...darn imported junk leave it to us real natives who do real beadwork...
If you don't agree with the community's rules then feel free not to attend that particular pow wow. Criticising them just makes you sound like you are full of hard cheese.
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Old 06-16-2012, 06:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Here's the thing, this is a written format, you get loads of opportunity to say exactly what you mean, you can even go back and edit your posts if you don't think you were clear enough.

I believe that if you want to say something, then say it and mean it. Taking an antigonistic position over being called on something that you wrote and saying that it needed clarification is another form of back peddling.

Now about assumptions. I'm confused by your posts. I note that you refer to "our" powows yet in an earlier post you set out that you don't attend them in Ohio. So which is it? Are they your pow wows or not? How would you know what people wear in Ohio if you don't attend any of them?

You said,

If you don't agree with the community's rules then feel free not to attend that particular pow wow. Criticising them just makes you sound like you are full of hard cheese.
excuse me? u know what my head aint full of cheese and just because i dont agree with it doesnt mean im criticising. actually blatently crisitcizing and not agreeing is totally 2 different things.
this is internet age you can get pics of ppl who attend at powwows next to youtube.next to i know some ppl who attend ohio powwows that how i know. you know what this is not gunna go anywhere at least not anywhere good this conversation besides round and around with you second off im tired of even conversing with you.

this is end of the conversation...
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:44 AM   #17
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how come we don't have a butthurt smilie? or are they only available to card caring folks?
LOL G&B, I should make one. Maybe tonight I'll make it and post it to my server.

Bumping this thread.
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:34 AM   #18
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:46 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by delila77 View Post
excuse me? u know what my head aint full of cheese and just because i dont agree with it doesnt mean im criticising. actually blatently crisitcizing and not agreeing is totally 2 different things.
this is internet age you can get pics of ppl who attend at powwows next to youtube.next to i know some ppl who attend ohio powwows that how i know. you know what this is not gunna go anywhere at least not anywhere good this conversation besides round and around with you second off im tired of even conversing with you.

this is end of the conversation...
Interesting that the ones caught out in their own confusion always want to "end a conversation". LOL

Hard cheese is about the quest of the little mouse that wants to eat all the cheese that he sees others eating. He doesn't want other to have what he thinks is his alone. When he finally gets his chance to possess all the cheese, he discovers the cheese is hard and inedible.

If you are an enrolled member and have identification, then why is it your concern whether a sovereign tribe has a pow wow that asks for cards? You can participate if you so desire to carry your cards with you.

So, by not actually attending a pow wow in Ohio and just listening to gossip and hearsay as well as watching a few videos online, you can spout off that their pow wows are full of roadkill hats. That is not an opinion or not agreeing, that's just repeating gossip and making fun of people.

Tell you what, when you ever decide to attend a pow wow in Ohio and actually speak to the folks that you are making fun of and criticizing then maybe you can come back here and have your say.

Interesting that you will not give the folks in Ohio the benefit of the doubt that like you, they are simply living there now and far away from their homes ... kind of like you. You would rather paint them all as wannabes. Just think about this, others are thinking the same about you just because you live there. Your gossiping with people about Ohio and wannabes has succeeded.
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Old 06-16-2012, 12:40 PM   #20
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Interesting that the ones caught out in their own confusion always want to "end a conversation". LOL

Hard cheese is about the quest of the little mouse that wants to eat all the cheese that he sees others eating. He doesn't want other to have what he thinks is his alone. When he finally gets his chance to possess all the cheese, he discovers the cheese is hard and inedible.

If you are an enrolled member and have identification, then why is it your concern whether a sovereign tribe has a pow wow that asks for cards? You can participate if you so desire to carry your cards with you.

So, by not actually attending a pow wow in Ohio and just listening to gossip and hearsay as well as watching a few videos online, you can spout off that their pow wows are full of roadkill hats. That is not an opinion or not agreeing, that's just repeating gossip and making fun of people.

Tell you what, when you ever decide to attend a pow wow in Ohio and actually speak to the folks that you are making fun of and criticizing then maybe you can come back here and have your say.

Interesting that you will not give the folks in Ohio the benefit of the doubt that like you, they are simply living there now and far away from their homes ... kind of like you. You would rather paint them all as wannabes. Just think about this, others are thinking the same about you just because you live there. Your gossiping with people about Ohio and wannabes has succeeded.
A. im not in confusion
B. i chose to end the conversation because its leading no where to someone like yarself and yar giving me a headache.
C. i have friends who arent card carrying and have just as any right to dance in that arena as anyone else. i just happen to be more open to the fact.
D. i aint gossipping
u know we could go on and on and on with this conversation or we could end the conversation and leave on happy conclusion we just both have different opinions like adults. which is the more adult thing to do. the more we go on with this conversation the more dull and droning it gets. so, lets be grown ups and not post to each other again. thank you!
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