[Wojapi4Me]

After reading some of the discussions as of late, I figured I'd start a thread to talk about the issue of carding at pow wows. What is the point? Why is it done? Does it accomplish its intended goal(s)...whatever they may be?

Personally, I think its silly. I know a lot of the pow wows here in North Carolina card, and to me that's hilarious as there's only one federally recognized tribe. There are even a few groups who aren't even state recognized that card at their pow wows...??

And that brings up another point? Which cards are acceptable? Federal only? State and federal? What? And who knows what is what? I sure wouldn't know if I was at the registration booth.

I guess I think its silly because there isn't a set tribal enrollment standard, but each tribe decides its own membership. Some tribes are very strict and have high blood quantum standards such as 1/2 or must have a certain parent be on the roll such as mother must be enrolled...if father is 4/4 and mom is none then you're out of luck with that tribe. Then, other tribes don't go by blood quantum (Cherokee Nation)...and some tribes don't even use blood quantums at all (Lumbees and Haliwa-Saponis - or so I've been told by several of their tribal members). So, you see, there are gaps in tribal enrollment.

Ok, start the arguments.

[MayChe]

Personally I agree. There is no point to it.

[chazziff]

yea what is the point - then what happens when a canadian comes down to dance? we dont have tribal cards per say (ones that say we are Cree or Stoney or what have you - just a certificate of indian status issued from Indian and Northern Affairs Canada. we can't dance becuz we're not a federally (USA) recognized tribe?

i just know round these parts - they don't "card" - we just let everyone dance - registered or not. any everyone does - we don't really have that many "full" white people coming out and dancing. just a couple - that one older white man who wears this white cotton outfit and a hat with earrings dangling from it (havn't seen him for awhile). and two other guys who dance traditional and one just started prairie chicken - they mostly just dance at onion lake first nation pow wow.

[Migiziwomen]

i am not sure there are going to be any arguments, i mean really it is silly. and i had not even thought of the nadian indians. i would be outraged if some of them were turned away for such a silly reason. i guess that shows my ignorance i did not even know that there were powwows that card like that, i mean i know there are closed and open but whatever my lunch is bout over. i will be checking back however to see if any one sees this differently good thread

[ajibik]

Maybe they're giving out those special wrist bands for the beer tent?

No not really.

[oh^wise^woman]

o.k. so some view powwowz as traditional. or as a time for gathering with relativs and gracing the powwow grounds with prayer beforehand. Ealge feathers are prsent and sage and sweetgrass.

so think about this;

would someoen be carded at a sweatlodge or sundance or switchdances or brushdances or stompdances?

i'm egsagerating to make my point but yea why card at events where we're all indn anywy?

Do the tribes get a cut in the powwowz profits or something

[suthernwaterbird]

good point. they dam sho don't card at gourd dances. Well not any that I have been too.

[WhoMe]

Originally Posted by suthernwaterbird

they dam sho don't card at gourd dances. Well not any that I have been too.

suthern,


Come witness the Kiowa Gourd Clan ceremonies July 2,3,4.

"If you aren't Indian you don't dance."

There are many lessons to be learned at this ceremonial as this dance is treated with reverence.

[Kiwehnzii]

It's bad enough that they card me at U.S. /Canada customs.

[DANCINGEAGLE]

This is an issue that causes a lot of arguments around here. Maybe, just maybe, they do that to keep the hobbyist out. I don't know, just a thought.

[chazziff]

yea i've known canadians that weren't allowed to dance cuz they didn't accept their "status card" as tribal id. cuz the committee said it didn't have their tribe stated on it.

why don't they want the hobbyists dancing? - forgive me but you know it's true - a hobbyist is never going to place at a competition pow wow and probably never will ...

[Wojapi4Me]

Originally Posted by chazziff

yea i've known canadians that weren't allowed to dance cuz they didn't accept their "status card" as tribal id. cuz the committee said it didn't have their tribe stated on it.

why don't they want the hobbyists dancing? - forgive me but you know it's true - a hobbyist is never going to place at a competition pow wow and probably never will ...

I tend to agree, and its horrible that Canadian Indians weren't allowed because of something as stupid as that!! I don't understand the "keeping people out" mentality either. Not very hospitable. But that's a different thread.

DANCINGEAGLE - you're Chickahominy...now, you guys aren't a federal tribe...do you card at your pow wows?

A big problem with this carding thing is who's card do you accept? What about these fake tribes who all have cards like the Cheroke Wolf Clan (Tennessee) and the Cherokee Wolf Band of Oregon? People always bash hobbyists...I have no problem with them per se...but I have a huge problem with these pretend tribes...but they have cards...see my point?

[Migiziwomen]

nae, party at my tent. lol. good to see a shnob from round me.

Originally Posted by ajibik

Maybe they're giving out those special wrist bands for the beer tent?

No not really.

[Migiziwomen]

point well made.
cut what cut i want some of that action

Originally Posted by oh^wise^woman

o.k. so some view powwowz as traditional. or as a time for gathering with relativs and gracing the powwow grounds with prayer beforehand. Ealge feathers are prsent and sage and sweetgrass.

so think about this;

would someoen be carded at a sweatlodge or sundance or switchdances or brushdances or stompdances?

i'm egsagerating to make my point but yea why card at events where we're all indn anywy?

Do the tribes get a cut in the powwowz profits or something

[WocusWoman]

Wow, I would have a hissy fit if I were EVER carded! I know Denver March requires such, what other powwows are this picky? While I agree that a hobbyist will probably not win at any contest powwow, how would you feel losing out to one? I'm sure (after reading a couple of posts from a tiny population of people on powwows.com, who totally rely on powwow winnings for income;) that would piss this population of people off. I think the issue is that some of these powwow committees have a hard time telling hobbyist from the real deal sometimes, and are trying to put some rules into place to avoid problems and conflict. I think the real problem is that many people are more than one, two, three tribes and don't have the blood quantum requirement for enrollment in one. I would hope that committees are able to make exceptions in these cases???

[Wojapi4Me]

Originally Posted by WocusWoman

I think the real problem is that many people are more than one, two, three tribes and don't have the blood quantum requirement for enrollment in one. I would hope that committees are able to make exceptions in these cases???

See, this is one example of what I'm talking about. I really want to hear from some of these state tribes to see why they card so feverently.

[NDNQt]

No, I am not federally recognized but that is part of my job to card at powwows. We only accept cards for tribes that are state or federally recognized because you have all these off the wall Cherokee and other fake tribes that pop up. It is horrible that it has come to this but at most powwows if there are wannabes there that is usually who the news media ends up videoing or taking pics - it is kinda like they just want to make a mockery of things. Carding people out here also seems to deter people that aren't Indian to try and dance. I mean like those people that come and dress like they got their outfits at Party City. I even one time had a man to have a fake Chickahominy card. Hello....doesn't he think I would know it was fake?? He even had Chickahominy spelled wrong! Then he wanted to get pissy with me for saying something. Anyways, that is some of the reasons for carding out here.

[Wojapi4Me]

Originally Posted by NDNQt

No, I am not federally recognized but that is part of my job to card at powwows. We only accept cards for tribes that are state or federally recognized because you have all these off the wall Cherokee and other fake tribes that pop up. It is horrible that it has come to this but at most powwows if there are wannabes there that is usually who the news media ends up videoing or taking pics - it is kinda like they just want to make a mockery of things. Carding people out here also seems to deter people that aren't Indian to try and dance. I mean like those people that come and dress like they got their outfits at Party City. I even one time had a man to have a fake Chickahominy card. Hello....doesn't he think I would know it was fake?? He even had Chickahominy spelled wrong! Then he wanted to get pissy with me for saying something. Anyways, that is some of the reasons for carding out here.

How do you know which are real tribes? If you count state tribes then there are well over 600 in this country. I wouldn't know hardly any of them up in Michigan or Connecticut or Maine or places like that.

How do you handle Canadian Indians?

So, the purpose of carding is to keep people with weird outfits away? Is that what I'm gathering? What about all the indians who have jank outfits?

Just playing Devil's Advocate here...I just am having a hard time understanding the point of this.

[Eagle Plumes]

[WhoMe]

Originally Posted by NDNQt

No, I am not federally recognized but that is part of my job to card at powwows. We only accept cards for tribes that are state or federally recognized....

NDNQ,,


Would you except a tribal American Express (Platinum)?

I don't leave home without it. *L