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Old 06-18-2008, 10:28 AM   #1
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changing the song

when you go out there to dance contest don't you hate it when drum groups change the songs to try and trick you. there are drums out there who sing other drum groups trick songs but don't sing them right, where there suppose to be a stop they don't stop or add one in where theres not suppose to be a stop. whats even worse the drums who make trick songs change there stop so they can try to trick the dancers. i don't know why they change it, they sing the song properly for along time then all of a sudden they change it up. if you drum groups really want to trick the dancer just keep making new trick songs....yes i know its a competion and all, sometimes between the dancer and drum but changing the songs around means changing the rules it seems like.... just my 2cents....
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:37 PM   #2
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Sorry to say, but once again, there are NO trick songs. Talk to the older singers, they are called STOP SONGS. A lot of the younger dancers would know this, if they dance more than competition.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawtoeman View Post
Sorry to say, but once again, there are NO trick songs. Talk to the older singers, they are called STOP SONGS. A lot of the younger dancers would know this, if they dance more than competition.

No offense whatsoever, but I have to disagree with this statement.

The older singers sing those "stop songs"...we've all heard them and danced to them. I think what the first poster was talking about are these new-fangled songs with no pattern, usually no words...that just put stops in for the sake of putting stops in there. They're confusing and, quite frankly, hard to dance to...

The older "trick songs"...and pawtoeman, I agree with you and have been told the same, exact thing as you in that there is no such animal...but those older songs are fun to dance to...

Just my thoughts and not trying to offend.
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad View Post
... if you drum groups really want to trick the dancer just keep making new trick songs.....

dad,

I practice this.

Our drum has 8 fancy dance songs that are our own compositions. They are the sung in contests the same way as they are sung on our CDs.

After we sang in a major fancy dance contest two weekends ago, several fancy dancers came to our drum to ask for CDs. In our CDs we just call them men's fancy dance songs ... even tho a couple of them have some wicked stops.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:08 PM   #5
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just my two cents..
now what fun is that if everyone knows the song?? I mean for the audience and for the dancers?? I for one am out there to challenge myself and also to compete against the drum... and i know that I"ve known the songs more then the drum at times!!! this is what competing is about.. it's not dancing against others, it's pushing urself, and doing ur best....
I think it's fun when drums do that.. cuz i know for a fact that when a person is down in the southwest, they do the same songs over and over again, never switching up... then up in the plains, they switch things up to make things interesting.. and then there are drums that sing a great new stop song that is fun to dance to and to watch as well for the crowd..
I think it's kind of like riding a bull... sometimes u stay on and sometimes u get bucked off.. but in both instances it was an experience..
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:51 PM   #6
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Lightbulb Play on Words.....

I agree with Dad.....Especially when they are older songs and folks sing em way out of whack......Or miss the stops.....Hence the "Remix"
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:34 PM   #7
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it is my view that the competion factor is a major part of powwow scene. Since this is the norm, Competion is not only between dancer and dancer it also exists between drummer and dancer. This sense of rivalry is the basis of the competitive factor. Many dancers get faked out during these types of songs and are not judged because the judges don't seem to want to score at these times.
When i serve as emcee i feel that this is the part of competive dance that is being lost.
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Old 06-19-2008, 02:29 PM   #8
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I personally LOVE the stop songs - old, new and "remix". To me it shows who the real dancers are. Instead of those out three working their "moves" and counting push-ups even though they may or usually don't know the songs.

I think it's great when the song is good and catching a dancer when he knows he nailed the stop, being able to anticipate it is part of the process. I hate the whining though when mor than one or a favored dancer misses the stop and everyone whines and complains until they get another song. Why can't everyone just be a good sport and know that Grandpa beat them -- why whine and make the singers go again?

Maybe I'll change my name to "luvstopsongs". :)
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Old 06-19-2008, 02:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeakingOwl View Post
it is my view that the competion factor is a major part of powwow scene. Since this is the norm, Competion is not only between dancer and dancer it also exists between drummer and dancer. This sense of rivalry is the basis of the competitive factor. Many dancers get faked out during these types of songs and are not judged because the judges don't seem to want to score at these times.
When i serve as emcee i feel that this is the part of competive dance that is being lost.
Back the the old days (1960s-1980s) on the northern Plains a dancer competed with the singers, the singers sang songs that had stops in them, they moved around the location of the "hard beats" or "honor beats", they generally did things to try to make the dancers think and pay attention. Back then dancers in a category hung out with each other, and there was a lot of friendship. Now the competition is with the other dancers, the good friendships are gone.

What I hate, and I write this from a fancy dance perspective, is when the young guys today think they know when the hard beats are coming and they start into their "routine" and there are no hard beats. Its like, come on, pay attention. Dance to the song, not your practiced routine that you videotaped of Spike Draper last year. Dance should flow from song, the two work together. (I'll step off the soap box now)

Oh and up north we call them trick songs, have since the 1950s. I hear the term stop songs and I think southern. Just read the album cover of the Contest is On Vols. 1 and 2.
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Old 06-19-2008, 04:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeakingOwl
...dancers get faked out during these types of songs and are not judged because the judges don't seem to want to score at these times.
When i serve as emcee i feel that this is the part of competive dance that is being lost.

Speaking,


You bring up a good point. If popular dancers get faked out, they should be judged accordingly rather than have another song to give them another chance to redeem themselves over other dancers who DID stop with the drum.

It is sad that you have probably witnessed a lot of powwow ways being "lost."
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Old 06-19-2008, 06:11 PM   #11
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Yep... that's what i was saying and Iowa boy said it better... lol.. so thanks.. lol
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