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Old 09-22-2008, 02:34 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by chazziff View Post
ok .... so would ya'll be up in an uproar if this person went on a day .... when no one was there .... and spread the ashes around .... and you never ever ever knew about it?
Nope, because I wouldn't know....l:
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:37 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Kakeeya View Post
I think as a precaution for the future, people should be aware of where this powwow is, just so it can be avoided, I mean thats like dancing in a cemetery to me. Being secretive (to protect the committee and powwow) is not helping the traditional people that might have very strict rules concerning the dead. To fix it, the powwow grounds should be moved or they should take care if it with a traditional medicine person etc. I work daily with repatriation and NAGPRA, so this topic does have my interest.
First of all I've made it very clear that IT WAS taken care of by a traditional Medicine and spiritual person, so that was done right away and taken care of. And many ceramony done for this situation by people who are knowledgeable and respected as such.

Second of all, I'm not being secretive why are some people being so inquisitive, you will find out through the grape vine, but it won't be through me putting them down or going against my Elders and putting names out there. I stated I've been told NOT to. I will not go against my Elders for anyone for any reason.

And all was removed from the area and some of the ground to make sure that it was moved.

A one time shot does not make it an everyday activity and I really think that it's starting to get blown way out of proportion here. You weren't there and before going to a new pow wow check with people who have been going for years. Everyone there knew about it. That's how I protect myself in the first place, I ask people who have gone to an event and participated in it for years before I go.
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by chazziff View Post
ok .... so would ya'll be up in an uproar if this person went on a day .... when no one was there .... and spread the ashes around .... and you never ever ever knew about it?
I agree with you, no one would know. We just happened to be notified since we were all dancing at the time. But then again, when the pow wow isn't going on, the grounds are usually off limits to the public anyway, there, unless there is another event going on there.LOL
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:49 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
First of all ........

A one time shot does not make it an everyday activity and I really think that it's starting to get blown way out of proportion here.

Slow your roll and actually read what I said, tt, I never said that this happens on a daily activity. I said in my job I work with repatriation on a daily basis, so yeah the topic has my interest.

The author of this thread wanted peoples opinions and so thats what I gave, my opinion. All I can say is, if you all are so protective of this committee and powwow then the thread probably shouldn't have been put out there for all of cyber space to see and react to. I'm done.
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:55 PM   #25
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Kakeeya View Post
Slow your roll and actually read what I said, tt, I never said that this happens on a daily activity. I said in my job I work with repatriation on a daily basis, so yeah the topic has my interest.

The author of this thread wanted peoples opinions and so thats what I gave, my opinion. All I can say is, if you all are so protective of this committee and powwow then the thread probably shouldn't have been put out there for all of cyber space to see and react to. I'm done.

Well, I'm not all on a Roll as you said.

She wanted opinions--I agree, about an incident, not to put anyone down or put anything else out there. Just "If this happens, what do you think" and that's as far as any of it needs to go.

I have no problem with the topic being of interest, but the rest doesn't need to be at this point. No one else seems to be making that an issue, just asking about the particular event. That's all and since there are no tones on the computer I will tell you right now that I would be speaking in a low voice but just my firmness as to who cares at this point where so much as why and what do people think? Don't have to know the where's and who's to have an opinion on an event, just my opinion on that one.
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:02 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Kakeeya View Post
Slow your roll and actually read what I said, tt, I never said that this happens on a daily activity. I said in my job I work with repatriation on a daily basis, so yeah the topic has my interest.

The author of this thread wanted peoples opinions and so thats what I gave, my opinion. All I can say is, if you all are so protective of this committee and powwow then the thread probably shouldn't have been put out there for all of cyber space to see and react to. I'm done.
*screeeeech* Hit the brakes on that one......lol I'm not protecting the committee. I don't even know them. Like you said, I put it out there for people to react to. TT sounds like he/she has a personal interest in this and that's his/her right. I just wanted to know what others thought. Like I said, I don't think anybody knew what to do.
And it anybody wants to know where this pow-wow was.....message me, I'll tell you.
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:07 PM   #28
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*screeeeech* Hit the brakes on that one......lol I'm not protecting the committee. I don't even know them. Like you said, I put it out there for people to react to. TT sounds like he/she has a personal interest in this and that's his/her right. I just wanted to know what others thought. Like I said, I don't think anybody knew what to do.
And it anybody wants to know where this pow-wow was.....message me, I'll tell you.
LOL--I'm a female. Not really a personal interest in this other then I do know all the people involved and have been going there and having fun for many many years. That's all. I'm not on the committee and I don't compete or anything else. Just don't want to put out good people who did their best and I do know from talking to them personally what was actually done for all the people.

And as I've said before, I have been told by my Elders not to put names out on the internet and I will do just what I've been taught no matter how it makes me look. Talking mildly, no attitude at all here.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:10 PM   #29
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OMG!! WTF!! I mean what was this person thinkn or were they even thinkn?? you don't do that especially at a pow-wow....that's like totally messed up BIG TIME!!
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:12 PM   #30
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Oh no they didn't! I'm traumatized and I wasn't there. Where was this Powwow/wake? On a more serious side, sounds like everyone did what they needed to do in that unexpected situation. I would have packed my belongings and went home. In my opinion, there is a difference between a powwow and a laying of someones ashes. The two need to be kept seperate. I have witnessed many things being brought into the powwow arena, some I agree with and some questionable, but this one crossed my line. I'm without words on this disstressing event. Maybe the committe will offer a public statement, an apology, an explanation for the incident.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:23 PM   #31
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OMG!! WTF!! I mean what was this person thinkn or were they even thinkn?? you don't do that especially at a pow-wow....that's like totally messed up BIG TIME!!
Yeah, I don't think that they really were thinking at all. It really caused a major uprising in many people.

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Oh no they didn't! I'm traumatized and I wasn't there. Where was this Powwow/wake? On a more serious side, sounds like everyone did what they needed to do in that unexpected situation. I would have packed my belongings and went home. In my opinion, there is a difference between a powwow and a laying of someones ashes. The two need to be kept seperate. I have witnessed many things being brought into the powwow arena, some I agree with and some questionable, but this one crossed my line. I'm without words on this disstressing event. Maybe the committe will offer a public statement, an apology, an explanation for the incident.
Ninja--it and it was not done while any of the pow wow was going on. None of the staff or anyone knew anything about it. There was a public apology of types when one of the persons stood up and said "there was something done here yesterday that no one knew about. As soon as it was brought to people's attention, it was taken care of right away." They went on a little more, but that was the basics. The person who did this did it totally in silence with no one around and only mentioned it to the MC after they had already done that. So it really had nothing to do with anyone from the pow wow, it was one individual who, I guess, wasn't thinking. All the people, as far as I know, were on dinner break. And I do agree with you that the two are totally different things. Everyone there did the best that they could. Many of us were camping out and some came a very long way to get there. But there were many who didn't dance 'cause of it. See no one knows who it was who even did it, we just know that a man went up to the MC and told him what they had done and then they left or walked away. It's not someone who is regularly involved with the pow wow to begin with, not as far as I know. So it was really only one person.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:28 PM   #32
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shut er down, thats a wrap!!! if that was in my neck of the woods. Also, there would be ceremonies up the yin yang because of that.
Yes I have been to powwows where people have past on, either at the drum when singing, or near or on the dance floor.
After that though, the powwow was pretty much shut down, somehwhat. They just took the points that the dancers accumilated up till then, and that was that. they did a memorial song for the family when they found out the bad news, and powwow was over.
Probably what would happen if that happened here. People would freak the &*^%$ out if that happened.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:34 PM   #33
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shut er down, thats a wrap!!! if that was in my neck of the woods. Also, there would be ceremonies up the yin yang because of that.
Yes I have been to powwows where people have past on, either at the drum when singing, or near or on the dance floor.
After that though, the powwow was pretty much shut down, somehwhat. They just took the points that the dancers accumilated up till then, and that was that. they did a memorial song for the family when they found out the bad news, and powwow was over.
Probably what would happen if that happened here. People would freak the &*^%$ out if that happened.
Well, there weren't many here who were amused either.LOL

There were lots of ceramonies, but since no one knows who it was or the family or even the person who put them there, they did the best that they could under the circumstances. I don't know why they didn't shut it down, but they didn't, well thinking about it, they probably just let the dancers decide for themselves if they wanted to dance or not. I was one who didn't dance, but there were a few, actually more then I thought that there would be, who did dance. So that's probably why they didn't shut it down. All the dancers, or most all of them knew about it.

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Old 09-22-2008, 10:16 PM   #34
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wow.. now I've heard everything...
I got the chills just thinking about tat happening at a powwow I was attending and yes... I would be one that would be packing up and going.... to take care of myself and others...
but then I was just thinking about this the other day too... I know that there are gyms here on the rez that hold wakes and then hold powwows at the very same gym later on... I know that they are taking care of and all that but I just had to stop and think... "hmm"...
anyway.. I still got the chills.. lol..
just want to add my prayers to the ceromonies done and to the misguided folks that did this too..
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:58 AM   #35
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Where was this dance?

I could care less about "blasting" them or whatever...would just like to know so as to avoid it in the future...you guys brought it up so where was it?
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:03 PM   #36
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I've never heard of anything like this happening before.

You don't know who did this, whether they were a spectator, New Ager, NDN, non-NDN, etc., but it is obvious that they were lacking in the knowledge of the protocol associated with the circle, such as asking the AD's permission if in doubt of the acceptability of a practice.

There will be other cases, I'm sure, whether other "issues" will come up at a powwow (not so disturbing as this perhaps), where differences of perception of acceptable/unacceptable may come into play, and some may be on the basis of tribal taboos, etc. It was already mentioned about carrying children into the circle being a taboo to Ojibwe tradition. I remember another discussion on here about using owl feathers in one's regalia and how some might find that disturbing.

When you have people from different tribes and traditions, spectators, etc., coming together it pays to have an AD and staff that are on the ball and ready to handle such things when they take place.

Sounds like the folks at this powwow did the best they could under the circumstances to make things right.
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:15 PM   #37
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It's not really about blasting anyone, there's no one to blast except for the actual person who did the deed and since no one seems to know who it is, that's all I can say on that. And I didn't bring it up, I only know from talking to those who took care of it what was done and how it was done and taken care of so that people know and understand that it was totally jumped on immediately and taken care of the best that anyone could have and would have been able to do.

Yeah, it sure won't happen there again. Nope the person never asked. All I know is that no one knew him or who it was. The MC was the only one that the person contacted and that was after the fact and the MC didn't know who the person was either as far as I know. We were all thinking that it was a spectator who did this during the dinner break, but again we are not 100% sure on that.

It was really freaky when I found out, I got chills all the way down and then debated on what to do. So I talked to an Elder and then called my Uncle and both of them told me the same thing and so I didn't dance that day. I had to come home after the day was over and take care of all my stuff in the right way as well.

But it was a good event all in all with the exception of this one situation and that was not a good thing at all, but was taken care of right away.
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:19 PM   #38
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nobody is saying. just have to listen for it on the "indian grapevine" as they say....
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:21 PM   #39
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I have a Theory...
How many watched the Olympics this year???
Well when I first read of this "incident" the first thing I thought of was Misty May-Treanor....
After she won the gold medal in Volleyball, she sprinkled some ashes of her dead mother on the sand! Apparently she also did this in 2004 after they won that gold medal...

Ok
This is pure speculation, but I can sure picture someone sitting at home and watching that!
Also I can picture they had read in the local papers a Powwow was to be held in their local area
Hmmmm
They think, what would be a cool thing than to sprinkle the ashes of my loved one in such a place
Sure sounds like a monkey see monkey do...

Just a Theory....
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:50 PM   #40
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It sounds like an interesting sociological experiment...lets sprinkle some ashes and tell everyone about it in a round about way and see what happens!!

Two things: 1. It's just a pow wow and 2. It's just ashes!! Ashes from a dead body are an inanimate object which have no power until someone wants to put that fear out there, because they don't know what else to think or do with the information. I can completely understand WHY someone may have done this, probably because the person who died LOVED to dance or sing or both and wanted part of their cremains to be placed in the area that they LOVED. True, it may not be the usual thing that Native Americans would do with a dead body, because we carry our thoughts of those who have passed on in our hearts and minds and in the dances and songs and not generally in "objects" as such, but it's not a completely unheard of practice to sprinkle ashes somewhere.

And I say the It's Just a Pow Wow with the utmost respect for traditions, but it's really just an intertribal gathering of singing and dancing, where the true spirit of family and friends and tradition can be felt, so where better to WANT to have some ashes sprinkled?
It's not like there aren't other DEAD things in the arena anyway, what with all the feathers from DEAD birds, the leather from DEAD deer, elk, cow, the bones and teeth and shells of other once living animals, who are we to discount them as any less important than that of a human?
I say it's over and done with, for all we know, it could happen at every pow wow and no one would even know any better...next time you're dancing an you see those cigarette ashes, better think twice, LOL!!


Although-The whole situation does beg the question...what next? An ashes sprinkling song???? An Ashes pick up song???? A separate arbor section just for anyone who wants to bring ashes of their loved ones as a sort of tribute area? A special and giveaway of the persons ashes in little pouches? The possiblities are endless.

Last edited by skybird5; 09-23-2008 at 01:52 PM..
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