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Old 06-29-2004, 01:14 PM   #1
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Duck and Dive Song PLEASE!!!

Does anybody have a duck and dive song they could send me? I need one for the powwows easternbull drum plays at. Please send me one if you Can and thanks in advance.
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Old 06-29-2004, 05:22 PM   #2
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Gvill:

Songs belong to tribes, societys, clans, familys, individuals or drum groups.

One cannot simply post on the internet and expect to be "sent a song."

. . . Particularly when you never know who is doing the asking!
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Old 06-29-2004, 08:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Gvill:

Songs belong to tribes, societys, clans, familys, individuals or drum groups.

One cannot simply post on the internet and expect to be "sent a song."

. . . Particularly when you never know who is doing the asking!
A-HO...........
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Old 06-30-2004, 10:49 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Gvill:

Songs belong to tribes, societys, clans, familys, individuals or drum groups.

One cannot simply post on the internet and expect to be "sent a song."

. . . Particularly when you never know who is doing the asking!
Thanks and goot rep to who me for answering this request in a firm yet very kind way!!

All I thought of saying was - you're kidding right?
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Old 06-30-2004, 11:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GVILLndn
Does anybody have a duck and dive song they could send me? I need one for the powwows easternbull drum plays at. Please send me one if you Can and thanks in advance.
I have an idea of who you are, and I have a good mind to call you and ask you what were you thinking! :rtf: :Eyepopper :Hammer :NoNo :?????: :dropping: :calling3: :duhh: :14: If it's not the one who has been on vacation all week, then I humbly apologize, not really though, because you still should know better.
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Old 06-30-2004, 09:00 PM   #6
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Take a minute before responding..thats all

Myself, I decend from the Chief Joseph Band of Nez Perce. My Mother is full blood Nez Perce, Myself I am full blood native enrolled in WAshington State. The duck n' dive song has a story behind it. I am also a traditional dancer and singer. All I can say about this, is this is truely upsetting and disgraceful. Those of us, who grew up with the stories of the horrors that took placae for our ancestors who went thru this battle. The ruthless killing of women, elderly , children and the bravery of the warriors who fought hard to defend our people. This song is to be song with honour and courage. I go to pow wows..far away from home and I hear drum groups sing this song...and I have to say they do not do this song honour or justice ...and if they want to have the right to sing this song, they should go to the land of where this song originated and learn from the people who grew up with these stories... Even though now a days..alot of singers pick up songs by CD's tapes..etc... some songs have special meanings..and those songs should not be taken for granted.
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Old 06-30-2004, 09:42 PM   #7
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Heyyahey, I got a question for you. Whenever a "duck n' dive" song is called for away from your area, the same song is sung. Are there more?
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Old 07-01-2004, 10:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii
Heyyahey, I got a question for you. Whenever a "duck n' dive" song is called for away from your area, the same song is sung. Are there more?
There are more than one way that Duck -n- Dive is sang. There is the style that the Crow folks sings.

There are at least two different ways it is sang in the Idaho, Washington, Oregon area (Nez Perce style). One way is widely used, the other way you won't hear too often. The song that is not used too often actually was recorded by some WSU dude back in the 60's or 70's of three elders singing it.
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Old 07-01-2004, 01:34 PM   #9
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Before everyone comes down on GVillNDN , not everyone is familiar with Polical Correctness on the internet, expecially with some topics.. ok nuff said!

I am familiar with Eastern Bull Drum and They are legit and always sing with honour and carry themselve well.

Songs are sung differently from time to time!

If a dancer comes from far away, it is nice to honor them with a song .
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Old 07-01-2004, 01:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canku Ota
Before everyone comes down on GVillNDN , not everyone is familiar with Polical Correctness on the internet, expecially with some topics.. ok nuff said!

I am familiar with Eastern Bull Drum and They are legit and always sing with honour and carry themselve well.

Songs are sung differently from time to time!

If a dancer comes from far away, it is nice to honor them with a song .

Hey! I actually sing with Eastern Bull, and I know who wrote the post. You are right, it would be nice to honor a dancer with a song. We as a Drum have been asked to sing a Duck-N-Dive, but of course we do not know the one that is commonly used. It is awesome to see the dancers, and the Drum interact with one another.

I feel that GVillNDN was meaning to ask not to have a song written,or just given, but just share the most commonly used song, so that EB can practice and practice, and practice, and sing it from the heart.

That's one thing I know about my EB family, they are true guys and they sing from the heart, and they give their all. I think that the wording that was used in his post was off, but there were good intentions just the same.

Now, yes, I bashed him a little, but he's my EB brother and I can do that!

So anyway, let's talk, let's post, and let's have some fun! :37:
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Last edited by Sewickly; 07-01-2004 at 02:00 PM..
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Old 07-01-2004, 02:02 PM   #11
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You guys ROCK!! Seriously, Keep it up!
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Old 07-01-2004, 02:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canku Ota
:clapping:

You guys ROCK!! Seriously, Keep it up!

:worthy:


Thank You! We give what we have, and some days are better than others, but our hearts are there. That's the main thing! Plus we enjoy what we're doing!
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Old 07-01-2004, 02:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyya_hey
Myself, I decend from the Chief Joseph Band of Nez Perce. My Mother is full blood Nez Perce, Myself I am full blood native enrolled in WAshington State. The duck n' dive song has a story behind it. I am also a traditional dancer and singer. All I can say about this, is this is truely upsetting and disgraceful. Those of us, who grew up with the stories of the horrors that took placae for our ancestors who went thru this battle. The ruthless killing of women, elderly , children and the bravery of the warriors who fought hard to defend our people. This song is to be song with honour and courage. I go to pow wows..far away from home and I hear drum groups sing this song...and I have to say they do not do this song honour or justice ...and if they want to have the right to sing this song, they should go to the land of where this song originated and learn from the people who grew up with these stories... Even though now a days..alot of singers pick up songs by CD's tapes..etc... some songs have special meanings..and those songs should not be taken for granted.
I agree with this guy :Thumbs cuz the Nimipu are our relatives and we know the true meaning of the original Duck N Dive song. I've seen the original song sung by other groups not of our area and it doesn't sound as good or have that heart in it. Also when not done in our area, lots of dancers don't know how to dance to it, and the people don't have that respect for it like we do and they don't stand up for this honorable song.
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Old 07-01-2004, 02:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakeeya
I agree with this guy :Thumbs cuz the Nimipu are our relatives and we know the true meaning of the original Duck N Dive song. I've seen the original song sung by other groups not of our area and it doesn't sound as good or have that heart in it. Also when not done in our area, lots of dancers don't know how to dance to it, and the people don't have that respect for it like we do and they don't stand up for this honorable song.
Believe me I feel what you are writing! It is also good to learn! And believe me this can be one of those political things that go on and on. But it should not. Everyone on PW.com has an opinion, I won't say what comes to mind, but I would put it in a joking way, but anyway. Everyone has an opinion, and everybody should, (I used should) respect each others dances, songs, traditions, but where does one draw the line. Do we not want to learn about another tribe and their beliefs, and backgrounds. Of course there are some things that are kept within the tribe, and not shared.

I'm getting off my soap box now! It would be good to know the story behind the song, so that people could appreciate better.
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Old 07-01-2004, 07:50 PM   #15
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Neemepoo

Just to let you know. Sometimes when I am far away from home. At some pow wows, such as Norway House and The Pas up in Manitoba, Houston Texas, saskatcheewan and california.. I have got up in front of the audience, usually on behalf of the ADs or MCs request. and have spoken the story of how the duck and dive originated. It is true, the song has a true meaning and respect from where it originated..and I invite any of you singers or dancers..to come watch the round bustle dancers in the Pacific northwest..jam out to the duct and dive...specially when it is song in the old style way..like the way Indian Nation sings its...it is true there is a old style way the song was song..starting on the rim of the drum..the song always includes a tail too.. Yes it is true the crow have a version of the duct and dive...at one time the Nez Perce and Crow were very close, back in the buffalo hunting days which is evident by the beadwork and hair dew for one...anyhow... far as the song goes..sure you will hear it and its good that the popularity of the song grows..but with the growth ...i would hate for this song to become commercialized. And unfort that is what i see happen...it sicked me to see that happen on the spokane reservation where they had a "duct and dive" mens traditional special..I love to dance to this song..because when i hear it..my heart grows strong and it don't matter how tired i am..i think of the warriors who had to fight in the snow...woke up at first day light..unclothed..they battled the calvary back..and defeated them long enough for the women and children to escape safely.. this song has that sort of meaning to it...and yes. i lost family during that battle...so it encourages me to dance my best in honour of those warriors who charged then overtook them cannons on that day. Its good to learn..but sometimes its good to go to the source to learn correctly...please come to washington nespelem or yakama, lapwai idaho or pendelton/warm springs oregon..you will hear the duck and dive and see those round bustle dancers..jam out to that song..you will always remember it then. The dancers to..whistle..scream.war whoop right to that duct and dive.. the singers you referred to are Nez Perce Nation singers..who sung at a performance there at WSU. I don't discourage anyone from learning..just come see how it is done..ask for permission from a drum from that area..and learn beat and cresendo's its a lot of fun to drum..and to dance..this song..its my fav...
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Old 10-22-2004, 01:58 PM   #16
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Lightbulb duck n dive

undefined[QUOTE=Sewickly]Believe me I feel what you are writing! It is also good to learn! And believe me this can be one of those political things that go on and on. But it should not. Everyone on PW.com has an opinion, I won't say what comes to mind, but I would put it in a joking way, but anyway. Everyone has an opinion, and everybody should, (I used should) respect each others dances, songs, traditions, but where does one draw the line. Do we not want to learn about another tribe and their beliefs, and backgrounds. Of course there are some things that are kept within the tribe, and not shared.

I'm getting off my soap box now! It would be good to know the story behind the song, so that people could appreciate better.


FIRST OF ALL THIS SONG IS A WARRIOR SONG AND SHOULD ONLY BE USED FOR MEN. ALL KINDS OF DRUMS SING THIS SONG THE WRONG WAY. SO PLEASE WHEN YOU ASK FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS YOU SHOULD GO ABOUT IT THE RIGHT WAY AND USE SOME COMMON SENSE...
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyya_hey
. . . Its good to learn..but sometimes its good to go to the source to learn correctly.....just come see how it is done..ask for permission from a drum from that area.....
___

Hey_hey:

Your advice is EXTREMELY VALUABLE! But only if it is accepted and practiced.

All powwow dances have an origin. Some dances and songs such as the duck and dive originated within a tribe and are apart of their rich histories.

It seems nowadays, if something is "Powwow Related," it can be simply adopting and used simply if "someone has a good heart and is respectful." Many times good hearted and respectful people re-interpret Powwow ways to fit their needs and wants.

I don't agree with this philosophy.

What are your thoughts? Anybody?
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:27 PM   #18
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How can one be respectful when they are, in essence, stealing another's culture? It's been related here and I've heard it related in person that this song belongs to the Nez Perce, and also that the Crows have a similar song. In my humble opinion, if you're not Nez Perce or Crow then you'd better get permission from these people before singing their songs.

I'm not that old, but I guess I came up singing in an era when song ownership was a BIG deal. It doesn't seem that big anymore, and that's sort of sad.
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:50 PM   #19
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This topic of "adopting or stealing" comes up alot whether it is song or dance, doesn't it? Just because you see someone do a dance or sing a song that you think is cool doesn't mean you should do it, too. Everyone should take time out to "really learn" about each other's tribal traditions, customs, dances,song and dress before they copy it. Many songs and dances are "tribe specific" and shouldn't be performed by any other tribe. And when you see or hear someone do something wrong and it bothers, you should make it a point to tell them, if possible, in a quiet, respectful manner so that they understand and don't get defensive. I rememer we went to a pow wow once and we heard a song that is a mourning song for our tribe sung during an intertribal. My father went to the drum and gave them tobacco, explained to them what that song was and simply asked them not to sing it again. Everyone shook hands and that was that. That's how we learn from each other what's right or wrong to adopt, steal or copy.
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Old 10-22-2004, 05:10 PM   #20
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