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Old 06-04-2009, 01:20 PM   #21
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:48 PM   #22
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Kamama, if you're readin', time to hang the shawl on the back of your chair!!
Hahaha, I take it you know me? LOL. Funny I didnt see this sooner.
Yep, being 30+ years is kinda rough on a shawler, but........

have I hit puberty yet? LOL
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:31 AM   #23
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Thanks, LBGOOD. Many of the small powwows we go to do not have any stands. Just a grassy field. Dancers and spectators alike bring chairs or quilts and put them where they will fit.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:43 PM   #24
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But it seems that the haybales or, less likely at an Eastern Powwow, benches will define the dance arena. They will also keep the canopes out as well as the kids. Problem solved. What haybales won't do is keep dancers from entering where they please.
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:59 PM   #25
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Ok...

I just happened across this thread here and figured I would weigh in a bit. I was born and raised here in Ohio... (please don't hold it against me! LOL) And when I was growing up the pow wows were pretty good, what they've become though... wow... LOL

I have seen song books, johnny cash tunes turned into pow wow tunes, the backing out of the circle thing, and everything else, my saddest thing I have encountered is the over hunting of the sacred teal deer... LMSAO. (or whatever other unnatural colors they can find to dye their leathers with from their local tandy leather store.)

I also noticed the name of my drum mentioned in the first post in this thread. I am the lead singer of the Red Shield Singers, but that doesn't mean too much, I'm just a singer. (But would like to thank the writer for the kind words... thank you.)

When it comes to eastern pow wows and estern protocols... I can tell you this... I am Shawnee, we ARE NOT a pow wow people... for me to hear, "well this is how my Cherokee or Shawnee elder told me to do things at a pow wow," is nuts. We have no protocol when it comes to pow wows, the way I was told a long time ago... it's not our way, when you go somewhere, do it their way. Now if we were talking stomp dances... that's a different story... those are OUR social dances, pow wows are just something that we are new too, and we follow the ways we were taught by others. I was fortunate enough to have learned southern ways and singing from a man I had the utmost respect for, and who I learned pow wow ways from, but don't pass his teachings he gave me regarding this pow wow way as some "new eastern protocol."

When it comes to the pow wows here, let me offer this advice to my fellow easterners that have decided to adopt this way. I have seen the backing out of the circle thing and asked, why do you do that? My answer was, we don't want to turn our back on the creator... my reply is this... the creator is everywhere and in all things... how confusing life must be for you, how do you know when to go forward or back up? The modern pow wow is in fact a social gathering... it isn't a ceremony, sorry I have to say it. Do you respect the circle? yes, are there ceremonies performed in the arena from time to time? yes, is that circle cleaned before we dance? I hope so, is a pow wow a ceremony? sorry, no, it's a social gathering. When it comes to ropes around the arena... yeah, it happens, why? I guess just to figure out where the circle is, but it isn't a neccessity, is there an arbor set up for the drums, I hope so, the sun gets hot sometimes! LOL

Let's face facts, I've been all over Ndn Country, and seen all kindsa things... if you're an easterner, know why you're doing what you're doing... if it doesn't make sense... please stop. If it's a pow wow protocol you learned from your "elder" please remember, there are nations in this country that ARE pow wow people, this is something we have adopted as eastern people, learn from the source... really learn, don't just make it up as you go along and call it "eastern"

Please, think... if you don't, you make all of us look bad... before you jump into a borrowed way, take the time to learn it, otherwise the ridicule you will see directed towards you is your own fault.

Just my 49 cents worth...

Paselo~
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:33 PM   #26
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Yep, being 30+ years is kinda rough on a shawler, but........

have I hit puberty yet? LOL
Kamama, that's so cool. Inspiring outlook.

I got a late start at this & am doing a challenging dance for someone my age. It's a bit of a second chance at life, and I feel like a teenager sometimes. Until the hip starts acting up.

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Old 06-11-2009, 01:24 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by beeleaf View Post


Kamama, that's so cool. Inspiring outlook.

I got a late start at this & am doing a challenging dance for someone my age. It's a bit of a second chance at life, and I feel like a teenager sometimes. Until the hip starts acting up.
Nothin wrong with a challenge, especially if its something you enjoy. Thats one of the reasons I enjoy fancy shawl, its a challenge for me, well....that & I like to dance. Im assuming you do mens fancy?

Yea, gotta watch out for them hips - LOL - keep the duct tape handy!
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:03 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by RedShield View Post
Ok...

I've been all over Ndn Country, and seen all kindsa things... if you're an easterner, know why you're doing what you're doing... if it doesn't make sense... please stop. If it's a pow wow protocol you learned from your "elder" please remember, there are nations in this country that ARE pow wow people, this is something we have adopted as eastern people, learn from the source... really learn, don't just make it up as you go along and call it "eastern"

Please, think... if you don't, you make all of us look bad... before you jump into a borrowed way, take the time to learn it, otherwise the ridicule you will see directed towards you is your own fault.

~

Paselo,

Do you have any idea why a lot of eastern powwows end near 6 pm or why they take hour breaks smack dab in the middle of the powwow?

How come Red. How come????
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:17 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by WhoMe View Post
Paselo,

Do you have any idea why a lot of eastern powwows end near 6 pm or why they take hour breaks smack dab in the middle of the powwow?

How come Red. How come????
WhoMe....if u think that's weird, u oughta go to some of those NW powwows where they contest the kids at 8:00pm and the adults at 1:00 in the morning!!!
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:42 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by RedShield View Post
Ok...

I just happened across this thread here and figured I would weigh in a bit. I was born and raised here in Ohio... (please don't hold it against me! LOL) And when I was growing up the pow wows were pretty good, what they've become though... wow... LOL

I have seen song books, johnny cash tunes turned into pow wow tunes, the backing out of the circle thing, and everything else, my saddest thing I have encountered is the over hunting of the sacred teal deer... LMSAO. (or whatever other unnatural colors they can find to dye their leathers with from their local tandy leather store.)

I also noticed the name of my drum mentioned in the first post in this thread. I am the lead singer of the Red Shield Singers, but that doesn't mean too much, I'm just a singer. (But would like to thank the writer for the kind words... thank you.)

When it comes to eastern pow wows and estern protocols... I can tell you this... I am Shawnee, we ARE NOT a pow wow people... for me to hear, "well this is how my Cherokee or Shawnee elder told me to do things at a pow wow," is nuts. We have no protocol when it comes to pow wows, the way I was told a long time ago... it's not our way, when you go somewhere, do it their way. Now if we were talking stomp dances... that's a different story... those are OUR social dances, pow wows are just something that we are new too, and we follow the ways we were taught by others. I was fortunate enough to have learned southern ways and singing from a man I had the utmost respect for, and who I learned pow wow ways from, but don't pass his teachings he gave me regarding this pow wow way as some "new eastern protocol."

When it comes to the pow wows here, let me offer this advice to my fellow easterners that have decided to adopt this way. I have seen the backing out of the circle thing and asked, why do you do that? My answer was, we don't want to turn our back on the creator... my reply is this... the creator is everywhere and in all things... how confusing life must be for you, how do you know when to go forward or back up? The modern pow wow is in fact a social gathering... it isn't a ceremony, sorry I have to say it. Do you respect the circle? yes, are there ceremonies performed in the arena from time to time? yes, is that circle cleaned before we dance? I hope so, is a pow wow a ceremony? sorry, no, it's a social gathering. When it comes to ropes around the arena... yeah, it happens, why? I guess just to figure out where the circle is, but it isn't a neccessity, is there an arbor set up for the drums, I hope so, the sun gets hot sometimes! LOL

Let's face facts, I've been all over Ndn Country, and seen all kindsa things... if you're an easterner, know why you're doing what you're doing... if it doesn't make sense... please stop. If it's a pow wow protocol you learned from your "elder" please remember, there are nations in this country that ARE pow wow people, this is something we have adopted as eastern people, learn from the source... really learn, don't just make it up as you go along and call it "eastern"

Please, think... if you don't, you make all of us look bad... before you jump into a borrowed way, take the time to learn it, otherwise the ridicule you will see directed towards you is your own fault.

Just my 49 cents worth...

Paselo~
Man this sounds like something that might be written about hobbs
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Old 06-11-2009, 05:17 PM   #31
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Paselo,

Do you have any idea why a lot of eastern powwows end near 6 pm or why they take hour breaks smack dab in the middle of the powwow?

How come Red. How come????

Mostly, it's because there are very few (if any) permaneant pow wow grounds over this way, so they have no light after the sun goes down. At the Pow Wow that the Columbus Center puts on, they have grand entry at 1pm, go til 5-5:30pm, then do another grand entry at 7pm then move up to another building when the sun starts going down and go til @10pm. I like that better than wrapping a pow wow up at 5-6pm and calling it a night.

Normally when a pow wow closes that early, my drum ends up singing after we eat anyway just for fun, if anyone wants to dance, they are welcome. Now, Cherokee, NC does have their pow wow down at the square grounds, and do have lighting after dark, that's why they can go a lot later than most pow wows east of the Mississippi.

As for the hour long breaks... you got me man, it kills the energy... I would rather keep singing. During those long breaks, you lose your crowd, and end up lulling those that are still there to sleep... I say, if you come to dance, keep the dancing going! Just my take.
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Old 06-11-2009, 05:34 PM   #32
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Man that hour breaks kill me..... My husband and I dance hard so when that break comes we both start stiffening up...... that is one thing that I could do without...

It has been tough on me being Cherokee and not from a family that was real big on going to powwows, only went to a few as a child and young adult. They really are not historically our thing, but the Cherokee have embraced the idea so we learned to dance.... I learned to dance and have been honored many times to be asked along with my husband to be the head dancers. So I do that when in Rome thing. I try to be as patient as possible with what others are doing and their traditions. I enjoy dancing and socializing with the friends that I have on the powwow circuit. I do tell people that if you are coming to a powwow seeking some deep spiritual meaning or enlightening then you are looking in the wrong place....
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Old 06-11-2009, 05:57 PM   #33
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In reference to the break thing; some powwows have a break to feed the dancers and drums etc... But while that goes on they have a half time show where they will have someone perform to keep the atmosphere alive. More to come gotta get back to work
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:48 AM   #34
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Wink

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Old 06-12-2009, 10:10 AM   #35
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Nothin wrong with a challenge, especially if its something you enjoy. Thats one of the reasons I enjoy fancy shawl, its a challenge for me, well....that & I like to dance. Im assuming you do mens fancy?

Yea, gotta watch out for them hips - LOL - keep the duct tape handy!
You assume correctly. Oh yeah, you know we got to keep that duct tape close. In coordinating colors, no doubt.
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Old 06-13-2009, 01:36 AM   #36
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In reference to the break thing; some powwows have a break to feed the dancers and drums etc... But while that goes on they have a half time show where they will have someone perform to keep the atmosphere alive. More to come gotta get back to work
they used to do that here. now they take an hour or so break about an hour after grand entry! for what? so they can have all their entertainment perform. i liked it better when the entertainment went on in the morning before grand entry and during the dinner break so as to keep the dancing going.
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Old 09-13-2010, 01:42 PM   #37
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its pitiful but im still trying to remember the groups at the coharie powwow i know a couple of them i belive but my forgetter works great lol
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Old 09-14-2010, 01:04 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedShield View Post
Ok...

I just happened across this thread here and figured I would weigh in a bit. I was born and raised here in Ohio... (please don't hold it against me! LOL) And when I was growing up the pow wows were pretty good, what they've become though... wow... LOL

I have seen song books, johnny cash tunes turned into pow wow tunes, the backing out of the circle thing, and everything else, my saddest thing I have encountered is the over hunting of the sacred teal deer... LMSAO. (or whatever other unnatural colors they can find to dye their leathers with from their local tandy leather store.)

I also noticed the name of my drum mentioned in the first post in this thread. I am the lead singer of the Red Shield Singers, but that doesn't mean too much, I'm just a singer. (But would like to thank the writer for the kind words... thank you.)

When it comes to eastern pow wows and estern protocols... I can tell you this... I am Shawnee, we ARE NOT a pow wow people... for me to hear, "well this is how my Cherokee or Shawnee elder told me to do things at a pow wow," is nuts. We have no protocol when it comes to pow wows, the way I was told a long time ago... it's not our way, when you go somewhere, do it their way. Now if we were talking stomp dances... that's a different story... those are OUR social dances, pow wows are just something that we are new too, and we follow the ways we were taught by others. I was fortunate enough to have learned southern ways and singing from a man I had the utmost respect for, and who I learned pow wow ways from, but don't pass his teachings he gave me regarding this pow wow way as some "new eastern protocol."

When it comes to the pow wows here, let me offer this advice to my fellow easterners that have decided to adopt this way. I have seen the backing out of the circle thing and asked, why do you do that? My answer was, we don't want to turn our back on the creator... my reply is this... the creator is everywhere and in all things... how confusing life must be for you, how do you know when to go forward or back up? The modern pow wow is in fact a social gathering... it isn't a ceremony, sorry I have to say it. Do you respect the circle? yes, are there ceremonies performed in the arena from time to time? yes, is that circle cleaned before we dance? I hope so, is a pow wow a ceremony? sorry, no, it's a social gathering. When it comes to ropes around the arena... yeah, it happens, why? I guess just to figure out where the circle is, but it isn't a neccessity, is there an arbor set up for the drums, I hope so, the sun gets hot sometimes! LOL

Let's face facts, I've been all over Ndn Country, and seen all kindsa things... if you're an easterner, know why you're doing what you're doing... if it doesn't make sense... please stop. If it's a pow wow protocol you learned from your "elder" please remember, there are nations in this country that ARE pow wow people, this is something we have adopted as eastern people, learn from the source... really learn, don't just make it up as you go along and call it "eastern"

Please, think... if you don't, you make all of us look bad... before you jump into a borrowed way, take the time to learn it, otherwise the ridicule you will see directed towards you is your own fault.

Just my 49 cents worth...

Paselo~

Been wondering the same thing about the backing up thing coming out of the dance area. I wonder if thats a catholic influence thing, (I'm not catholic) . I know they will bow , make the cross and back away from the alter after they have approached it.
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:04 AM   #39
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Eastern Gatherings are nothing new as we been dancing as long as the rest of the country before whites and after the whites and beeleaf said it right East is a big term as it covers the Atlantic to the Mississippi. People just forgot about us doing stuff before the powwow movement took off. It is just that some are trying to use other words instead of powwow all the time even though the term is an Eastern word. At the Hunting Moon Powwow in WI we even have a Eastern Woodland Category.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:49 PM   #40
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The word powwow comes from the east, its and Algonquin word meaning spiritual leader.

The powwows in the northeast are very different then the west they have incorporable the contemporary western rooted "powwow" with eastern social gatherings, similar to the longhouse gathering of the Iroquois. My tribe has a gathering that has continue and been recorded for over 300 years.

We have an eastern traditional category and womens eastern blanket dance as well has the other categories.
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