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Old 01-11-2007, 04:53 AM   #1
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Gathering of Nations Dancer Rules

From the GON Website, Dancer Rules:

9. All junior and teen contestants must show proof of age if questioned by POW - WOW officials when suspected of being too old for the category. THERE IS NO PENALTY FOR COMPETING IN CATEGORIES WHICH THE DANCER IS YOUNGER THAN. (Example: A 16-year old boy competing in the Menís Fancy is acceptable). The same is true for Golden Age and Elder dancers choosing to challenge younger dancers. They may register and compete in the regular adult categories.

*******************************************
I was just checking out info on the GON website and found this rule among the other Dancer rules. Apparently it is acceptable to dance in ANY age category that an adult dancer feels like dancing in. So If I'm 35 and I want to dance in Golden Age women's Southern, I can? Obviously, I'm probably not gonna place however I might be able to dance a little FASTER than most of the 55-69 year olds. And I LOVE the example shown in the rules because I know LOTS of 18+ men's fancy dancers who don't want to dance against a 16 year old.

I must say that ALL the pow wows I work at (SO. Cali casino's, with real $$$), that rule is actually backwards...in other words, you gotta dance in your age group. You can dance down in age but not up. So YES, golden age men can dance with Adult men, but not vice versa. I've found that most dancers in Golden Age don't want to dance against 20 year olds however.

Any comments?
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Old 01-11-2007, 10:00 AM   #2
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(Obviously, I'm probably not gonna place however I might be able to dance a little FASTER than most of the 55-69 year olds.)

What if it's a slow song? You'd obviously not place if yer goin' like hell and not keeping beat.

Ayyee.
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Old 01-11-2007, 01:50 PM   #3
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I read it to say that a sixteen year old can challenge adults in the adult categories but adults can not challenge the golden age adults. However, golden age can challenge the adult category by entering into the adult category rather than the golden age.

In others words, 17 year olds and younger can move up to adult. Those who are 45 (whichever the golden age cut off is) and older can move down to adult. But, adults can not move down to teen or move up to golden age.
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Old 01-11-2007, 03:18 PM   #4
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I don't think this rule is very clear. I think those should dance in their age group. And if the older ones choose to dance in a down graded group they could at their own risk. However I don't think they should be able to dance in two catagories.

There was a problem before with older kids wanting to dance in the younger catogories and since they were more skilled they won. Not fair. And that's why the rule.
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Old 01-11-2007, 05:11 PM   #5
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Actually, it looks like the rule applies only to junior and teen dancers, not to any other dancers at all - that is, if you are 35 and want to dance golden age, you may and if you are 65 and want to dance in a younger ADULT category you may (unless there is some other rule that governs).
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Old 01-11-2007, 07:24 PM   #6
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All these extra rules. People should just dance their own age category. That's it. No controversy, no hurt feelings. Just dance. Respect each other.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:27 PM   #7
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True, true

Yeah, guess this is true. Too bad Gatherings doesn't have Junior and Senior adult categories like most big pow wow's are going. That's why I like the Cali circuit pow wow's cause they split the adults up at Most of them, not all, but most.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skybird5
From the GON Website, Dancer Rules:

9. All junior and teen contestants must show proof of age if questioned by POW - WOW officials when suspected of being too old for the category. THERE IS NO PENALTY FOR COMPETING IN CATEGORIES WHICH THE DANCER IS YOUNGER THAN. (Example: A 16-year old boy competing in the Menís Fancy is acceptable). The same is true for Golden Age and Elder dancers choosing to challenge younger dancers. They may register and compete in the regular adult categories.

*******************************************
I was just checking out info on the GON website and found this rule among the other Dancer rules. Apparently it is acceptable to dance in ANY age category that an adult dancer feels like dancing in. So If I'm 35 and I want to dance in Golden Age women's Southern, I can? Obviously, I'm probably not gonna place however I might be able to dance a little FASTER than most of the 55-69 year olds. And I LOVE the example shown in the rules because I know LOTS of 18+ men's fancy dancers who don't want to dance against a 16 year old.

I must say that ALL the pow wows I work at (SO. Cali casino's, with real $$$), that rule is actually backwards...in other words, you gotta dance in your age group. You can dance down in age but not up. So YES, golden age men can dance with Adult men, but not vice versa. I've found that most dancers in Golden Age don't want to dance against 20 year olds however.

Any comments?
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Old 01-12-2007, 10:11 AM   #8
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It all boils down to respect, that's all. Wait your turn, you'll get there.

Many people asked my son why he never put his daughter into the competitive category (6 -12). She dances very well. His answer - she's not 6 yet. I was very proud of him.

She did enter once. At Schemitzun, there was a 12 and under category special. She got fourth.

So...... it begins at a early age. Teach the children to respect the older ones and it'll carry on into later life. They will always remember to respect the elders. It is the way of native people.

There are little lessons in all aspects of life and this is one of them.
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Old 01-12-2007, 01:53 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the great interpretations! Which shows my point, it's way TOO vague and open to TOO many interpretations. ALso on the GON website is an explanation about how Derek Matthews discovered cheating at a pow wow so he decided to have a pow wow that is FAIR to all contestants. VOILA-GON is born!!!

The GON website even has a CONTEST FAIRNESS DOCTRINE:

"...Since that time The annual Gathering of Nations Pow wow has been promoted as a fair contest to all dancers and singers. Each year painstaking efforts are made by the Mathews family (Derek, Lita, and Melonie) to guarantee the powwow is judged as fairly as humanly possible...
It is important that each dancer and drum group have the confidence in the Gathering of Nations to produce a fairly judged event. That means that the pow wow selects judges who are completely fair and without political, social, or family bias. Dancers at the Gathering of Nations are judged upon their individual dancing skills and performance, and not their reputation or celebrity status. The same ethical standards are in effect for drum groups."

I, myself, don't believe this is possible with ANY pow wow, unless you bring in judges who don't know anybody or have never been to a pow wow, but then how would they know if someone is straight dancing correctly?
My personal thought is that GON is a show for tourists/wannabees/hangers-on, etc. and a money making enterprise for "someone". Yes, it's a pow wow, but the concern for the contest part of the event is secondary to the SHOW part.
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Old 01-12-2007, 04:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skybird5
Thanks for all the great interpretations! Which shows my point, it's way TOO vague and open to TOO many interpretations. ALso on the GON website is an explanation about how Derek Matthews discovered cheating at a pow wow so he decided to have a pow wow that is FAIR to all contestants. VOILA-GON is born!!!

The GON website even has a CONTEST FAIRNESS DOCTRINE:

"...Since that time The annual Gathering of Nations Pow wow has been promoted as a fair contest to all dancers and singers. Each year painstaking efforts are made by the Mathews family (Derek, Lita, and Melonie) to guarantee the powwow is judged as fairly as humanly possible...
It is important that each dancer and drum group have the confidence in the Gathering of Nations to produce a fairly judged event. That means that the pow wow selects judges who are completely fair and without political, social, or family bias. Dancers at the Gathering of Nations are judged upon their individual dancing skills and performance, and not their reputation or celebrity status. The same ethical standards are in effect for drum groups."

I, myself, don't believe this is possible with ANY pow wow, unless you bring in judges who don't know anybody or have never been to a pow wow, but then how would they know if someone is straight dancing correctly?
My personal thought is that GON is a show for tourists/wannabees/hangers-on, etc. and a money making enterprise for "someone". Yes, it's a pow wow, but the concern for the contest part of the event is secondary to the SHOW part.

I agree with you. There is no way on this earth that ANY powwow can have totally bias free judging. The only thing you can do as a tabulator/committee is say that the points are all added up properly and that everyone is held to the same rules. (no rule bending for the bros. etc.)
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Old 01-13-2007, 07:11 AM   #11
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hahaha....

dude the judging at gathering is a fricken joke! my brother-in-law and myself watched the mens trafditional one year on video camera.......they were split into 4 groups that year and all the winners come out of 2 groups! now tell me how that is possible casue we wrote down who was in what group as we watched just to prove my point to him. now i aint on here to dawg anyone out and especially the mathews(sp) cause i have been involved in cordinating pow-wows before and i know the amount of work into putting one together! but if they are going to say the contest is fair to me that is a front! some people like the pow-wow and travel a great distance to be there while others dont care for it! make your choice and check it out if you want to but just dont get on here crying around bout how the contest goes! AHO
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Old 01-13-2007, 01:39 PM   #12
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It is..what it is Go there or elsewhere

We always have a choice.

You don't like ad/ judges /rules /categories what ever..
I just go somewhere else there are always lots of choices for us.
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Old 01-13-2007, 09:43 PM   #13
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I'm not complaining but it seems that it would be a good idea is to put in age categories like this.

12 - 17 - possibly 18 - 54 or something

55 - 69 or less

Makes sense doesn't it?
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii
I'm not complaining but it seems that it would be a good idea is to put in age categories like this.

12 - 17 - possibly 18 - 54 or something

55 - 69 or less

Makes sense doesn't it?
Sorry, no, it doesn't. I don't understand what your categories are.
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Old 01-14-2007, 08:20 PM   #15
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The way the rules are posted does sound kinda goofy but are they for real with the $31.00 admission fee for everyone ONE and over? I'm sure i'll be there but DANG!

Last edited by mojo_jojo; 01-14-2007 at 08:23 PM..
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Old 01-14-2007, 08:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trob226
Sorry, no, it doesn't. I don't understand what your categories are.

Eggsakly.

That's why moving up or down shouldn't even be an option.

Kids in mens categories.
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Old 01-14-2007, 10:57 PM   #17
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OK, one last time for the record.
Its a good effort by the GON staff to have a fairness doctrine.
However, lets get real. It is humanly impossible to judge a catagory of dancers fairly when they have been split into more than one group. There are just too many dancers moving around for the human eyeball. Especially at GON. The number of dancers in each catagory is overwhelming. These judges naturally gravitate towards dancers that are already well known and have an established history of winning. Fair? No. But thats just the way it is. In addition, Ill bet some of these judges are already looking for dancers they know at the beginning of the competition, just to make their judging easier.
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Old 01-15-2007, 11:37 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii
Eggsakly.

That's why moving up or down shouldn't even be an option.

Kids in mens categories.
Probably right.
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii
Eggsakly.

That's why moving up or down shouldn't even be an option.

Kids in mens categories.
Actually that's exactly how I also read the rules....because they don't make sense. Maybe you could be their new PR guy!
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Old 01-15-2007, 11:46 PM   #20
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