Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree43Likes

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Pow Wow Talk Germany's Obsession with Natives Germany's Obsession with Natives

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-24-2013, 06:26 PM   #1
On The Rocks
 
AmigoKumeyaay's Avatar
 
Items ElephantTreasure ChestPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lands of Kumeyaay, Luiseno, Cupeno, & Cahuilla
Posts: 4,976
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 46,096.99
Savings: 1.00
Germany's Obsession with Natives

INDIAN COUNTRY TODAY MEDIA NETWORK

A story about Germany's obsession with American Indians.

Germany's Obsession With American Indians Is Touching—And Occasionally Surreal

Red Haircrow
March 23, 2013

Jürgen Michaelis, who lives near Dresden, was standing in front of the small, improvised tipi he keeps in his back garden, wearing a homemade deerskin suit and a matted black wig that had a lone blue feather stuck in it. “I’m 75 percent Indian but still German,” the retired locksmith told a writer for Der Spiegel, adding that his Indian name is The Lonely Man.

Michaelis is not the only German who likes to pretend he is an Indian. Hobbyism or Indianism, the desire to copy Native Americans is a puzzling and persistent passion for many Germans. Every year, there are dozens of pow wows arranged, managed and run by non-Natives at which, Der Spiegel reported, “thousands of Germans with an American Indian fetish drink firewater, wear turquoise jewelry and run around places like Baden-Württemberg or Schleswig-Holstein dressed as Comanches and Apaches.” There are several German Wild West theme parks like Eldorado, a popular vacation spot featuring staged cowboys vs. Indians or small reenactments of notable battles, as well as dancers performing choreographed sets that combine dance styles and forms.

Michaelis’s life as an “Indian” mostly consists of emulating Natives who roamed the Great Plains of North America over two centuries ago, and now that he’s retired, he spends the majority of his time making and selling Native-inspired trinkets and small leather goods to sell. Some Germans don’t limit their dress-up to their backyards. They periodically put away their mobile devices and other modern tools for the weekend and recreate tipi encampments, dress in animal skins and furs, prepare and cook food over an open fire and address one another by Indian-sounding names such as White Wolf, all while discussing their feelings of invoking the spirit of what it is to be an Indian. There are also websites like Tipis.org, which declares itself “dedicated to all the people around the world who have ever studied the American Indian tipi and wanted to live the life of freedom on the Plains that this structure represents.” Posted there are photos of Europeans who have abandoned their own culture, either permanently or occasionally, to “live like Indians”—or what they have rather fancifully imagined what living like an Indian entails. Some of these people actually roam the countryside wearing buckskin, living off the land and practicing their peculiar brand of American Indian religion.

An estimated 40,000 Germans pay dues at more than 400 clubs so that they can pretend to be Indians. Some of these clubs serve a dual purpose because it is illegal in Germany to fire a rifle, ride a horse or camp unless you belong to a registered club and engage in those activities on club premises. Some of the more popular ones are the Cheyenne Indian Club, Western Club Freising and the Wild West Club. The Cowboy Club of Munich, founded in 1913, is the oldest club of its kind in Germany, and regularly hosts events in which members dress up and act as they believe Indians did hundreds of years ago, insisting upon what they believe is authenticity, although they call themselves rote Indianer—red Indians. They organize pow wows; make, sell and trade handiwork; and drum, sing and dance. Some even take lessons on horseback riding or shooting a bow and arrow.

Krisztina Szabo, who was interviewed for Linda Holley’s book, Tepees, Teepees and Tipis: History and Design of the Cloth Tipi, told the author, “Our camp is always in summer, in July for two weeks. During this time we live in tipis, we wear only Indian clothes. We don’t use technology, and we try to follow Indian traditions. We have those [pretending to be] Lakota, Oglala, Blackfoot Blood, Siksika, Pawnee…and we go on warpath against each other day and night, anytime at all. In two weeks, every tribe can fight each other. We don’t know when somebody will attack or when they will come to steal our horses. And the battles are always exciting, too. I really enjoy them.”
AmigoKumeyaay is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-24-2013, 06:47 PM   #2
On The Rocks
 
AmigoKumeyaay's Avatar
 
Items ElephantTreasure ChestPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lands of Kumeyaay, Luiseno, Cupeno, & Cahuilla
Posts: 4,976
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 46,096.99
Savings: 1.00
Adults playing dress-up might seem vaguely comic, but these people are shockingly earnest in their love for Native culture, regardless of how poorly many of them understand it. Many even acknowledge that their events—and even their costumes—aren’t about Native American life as it is today, or even was 200 years ago. They just consider their dress-up to be good fun and do not mean to give offense.

Some champions of Native culture don’t find these hobbyists funny or benign. Susan Marcia Stan, who wrote an essay about the impact of Native misrepresentation in children’s literature says, “ ‘Playing Indian’…assumes that being Indian is something that can be put on or taken off at will and completely ignores the cultural heritage of Native people.”

But not everyone with Native bona fides is disturbed by the hobbyists. Laura Kerchee, a young Comanche and jingle dress dancer serving in the Air Force is stationed in western Germany. When she recently spoke at a cultural diversity day on her base, she was impressed by how enthralled the Germans there were by Native Americans. She says some of the adults told her they were very eager to see a Native up close because “when they were little, Indians were like fairy tales or a dream.”

Kerchee has lived in Germany off and on for almost 13 years. “I often see things which are Native-themed,” she says. “For example, games at festivals where the ‘cowboy’ shoots the ‘Indians,’ or at a theme park called Phantasialand, where they have your stereotypical racist Peter Pan–style Indians climbing rocks and all that. I’ve noticed a few ‘twinkie’ stores—twinkie is a slang term for non-Natives who claim to be Indian—as well as vendors at festivals selling twinkie Indian supplies, such as dreamcatchers, crystals, et cetera. They must make a lot of money because I was in one shop that was charging $44 for a small bundle of sage. All of these items are of course mixed with rip-offs of other cultures, such as Hindu and Buddhist statues and tie-dyed T-shirts.”

There are also some tribes in North America reaching out to their fans in Europe. They realize that this is an opportunity to promote understanding and education and a way to market Native culture to a highly sympathetic audience. Several members of the American Indian Alaska Native Tourism Association were at ITB Berlin, the world’s largest tourism convention, which was held in early March. “They are looking for tribes,” Camille Ferguson, executive director of the group, says of the German hobbyists. “They are looking for Indian country. They want to know more about the Native people in America; they want the real stories.”

She says the association’s mission is to help introduce, define and grow American Indian and Alaska Native tourism, “and part of our program is international outreach, so that we are telling our own stories.”

She adds that European travelers who visit Indian country seek authentic experiences. “The European people will be interested in more of the cultural aspects of tourism, [such as] the local venues—from food to dance to art.”

This was the fourth year the association was part of the ITB Berlin convention, and Indian country representation has been getting stronger every year. For the first time, members from Native Tourism of Wisconsin, which represents 11 sovereign nations, the Three Affiliated Tribes of North Dakota and the Chickasaw Nation were there. “We are not afraid to show the world what our culture can bring as well as capture the hearts of people who haven’t seen or heard it,” says Jason Morsette, a member of the Arikara Tribe (Fort Berthold Reservation), who represented the Three Affiliated Tribes of North Dakota in Berlin this year.
muskrat_skull likes this.
AmigoKumeyaay is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-24-2013, 06:48 PM   #3
On The Rocks
 
AmigoKumeyaay's Avatar
 
Items ElephantTreasure ChestPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lands of Kumeyaay, Luiseno, Cupeno, & Cahuilla
Posts: 4,976
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 46,096.99
Savings: 1.00
Where did this obsession with Native Americans come from? You can thank (or blame) the novels of Karl May (1842–1912), the best-selling German author in history. Many of his most popular books were about a German explorer and wanderer who traveled through America’s Old West and eventually became blood brother to Winnetou, a fictional Apache warrior. This German explorer comes to be called Old Shatterhand, and with his Indian companion battles and overcomes evil of all kinds. Winnetou is the stereotypical figure for many Germans of what a “real” Indian is like: how they dress, speak (broken English) and behave. The country’s long fascination with Native Americans spiked in the 1960s, after several of May’s books were made into films.

May was a fascinating character and an inveterate fabulist. From an early age, he also had a propensity for thievery, fraud and conning people, which landed him in trouble—and occasionally in jail. By the age of 32, he had already done a couple of stints in jail. His deep fascination with Indians and his imaginings about them expanded while he was incarcerated, for the prisons in which he was housed had libraries that offered the titles he craved, such as James Fenimore Cooper’s The Last of the Mohicans.

When May was released from prison in 1874, he was determined to make his living as a writer. He declared he was going to emigrate to America. Instead, he became an editor for a publishing company, and over the next 38 years, he published almost 70 books, 15 of which feature Winnetou and Old Shatterhand. May adamantly insisted his novels were based on actual experiences, but they were all the creations

of his fertile imagination, with some liberal cribbing from source material and maps. He didn’t come to America until he was 66, where he met his first Indian near Buffalo, New York. Buffalo was as close to the Old West as he ever got.

Many Europeans grew up reading May’s novels, which have been widely translated, and his popularity endures. Following World War II, he was very popular in areas controlled by the Soviet Union—East Germany, Hungary and Czechoslovakia. Russians living under strict Soviet rule say they sought relief from their oppressive government through imagining life as Native Americans: wild, free, often oppressed but somehow happy. They began emulating the characters and situations in May’s books, and they created clubs and groups dedicated to Native culture.

Many young Germans are dismissive of the opinions and concerns of “the old folks,” yet they, too, eagerly visit Indian theme parks, are interested in the art, music and traditions of Indigenous Peoples and incorporate—rightly or wrongly—some elements of Native ceremonies into their own hybrid forms of religion.

Berlin’s HeileHaus is a popular meeting spot for younger hobbyists. It once offered Native American healing, meditation, vision quests and ceremonies that are said to help people find their spirit guide, animal totem or even their secret Indian names. Through Google you’ll find pages of results for such New Age groups, some with their personal Indian shamans, leaders or someone who says they’ve studied with Indians and have now brought these teachings to Europe, often for a fee.

Julian Crandall Hollick is a writer who has interviewed many German and European hobbyists and aficionados. “These are intelligent men and women—computer programmers, truck drivers, interior decorators—for whom the American West offers another identity necessary for their mental stability, a means of going back into history to make sense of as world in which they often alienated; another way for Man to renew the search for identity and his relationship with Nature,” he has written. “Of course, many ordinary Europeans have now visited the [American] West. They know full well their dream is about an America that no longer exists, may never have existed. But they are content with the myth because it fulfills [personal] needs.”

For some it goes far beyond weekend fun or a chance to adopt certain Indian values or beliefs; these hobbyists don’t limit themselves to occasionally procuring authentic garments, decorative items and handicraft projects. Such is the case with the self-proclaimed chief, Gerhard Fischer, known as Old Bull, who heads the Karl May fan club, which hosts a festival on the author’s birthday. Fischer and his kind have romanticized long-gone Native Americans to a degree that they think “latter-day” Indians are poor examples of their ancestors—whom they revere as noble savages. Old Bull’s followers believe Natives today are being perverted by modern culture and that they, not Native Americans, are preserving Native culture.
muskrat_skull likes this.
AmigoKumeyaay is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-24-2013, 06:52 PM   #4
On The Rocks
 
AmigoKumeyaay's Avatar
 
Items ElephantTreasure ChestPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lands of Kumeyaay, Luiseno, Cupeno, & Cahuilla
Posts: 4,976
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 46,096.99
Savings: 1.00
Instead of empathizing with the very real struggles of Natives now living in North America, these “new Indians” of Europe see the societal problems, substance or alcohol abuse, poverty and internal difficulties within some indigenous communities as evidence supporting their conclusions. They believe their activities are keeping Native American traditions alive, because—they believe—most Natives neglect or do not appreciate their own heritage.

The website for the “Indians and Mountain Men” club declares that “the purpose of the club is to maintain the customs and traditions of the North American Indians and Mountain Men.… We call ourselves practicing anthropologists and take our hobby and the related work, either in theoretical or practical shape, very seriously. The tipis, all the clothing, as well as all items are lovingly made by hand and decorated by us. Many of us even tan the leather itself and sew it together with animal sinews, as the Indians did before. We practice in many skills and craft techniques of this cultural group, and even in songs and dances we strive to achieve the utmost authenticity.”

David Redbird Baker, Ojibwe, told Noemi LaPinto for an article in the Canadian monthly magazine, Alberta Views, that when he first came to Germany, he was amused by the hobbyists, but his feelings changed as he spent more time amongst them. “They take the social and religious ceremonies and change them beyond recognition….They’ve held dances where anyone in modern dress is barred from attending—even visiting Natives. They buy sacred items like eagle feathers and add them to their regalia.” In his opinion, these hobbyists, by claiming the right to improvise on the most sacred rituals, have begun to develop a sense of ownership over Native culture.

LaPinto also talked to John Blackbird, Cree, a minor celebrity in Germany known for his Native dance performances and his documentaries on the hobbyists. He often feels frustrated by hobbyists who feel they are more Indian than Indians. He told LaPinto that he made a documentary entitled Powwow in 2005, which follows several people as they perform dances from across a broad spectrum of Native traditions. Blackbird says he was “trying to show Germans that Native dances are evolving art forms, not the ancient rituals of an extinct people.” While promoting this film, he sent an e-mail to a hobbyist organization, explaining that his film was about ‘Indian life.’ He says he received a quick, curt response informing him that the proper term was ‘First Nations,’ and that he would do well “to not use racist terminology.”

“ ‘I am an Indian!’ Blackbird shot back. ‘My friends are Indians. My family are Indians. We have always called ourselves Indians. I have a status card from the Canadian government that tells me I am an Indian. You have no right to tell me what I am.’ ”

Like John Blackbird, I am Indian living and working in Germany—I am of Chiricahua Apache and Cherokee heritage, with a couple of splashes of other cultures. Like John Blackbird, I generally find life comfortable in Germany, and for the most part I am accepted for who I am. I have met many Germans who are genuinely interested in and respectful of Native American cultures and are aware of the struggles we’ve had in the past and continue to face today.

But I have met other, less-endearing hobbyists. Through Facebook and other websites or social applications, I am sometimes contacted by enthusiasts who avidly want to talk to a “real” Native American. And sometimes I oblige them. I recently had a conversation with a middle-aged German man who was looking for a Native American with whom to discuss his thoughts and beliefs. He believed he was a reincarnated Nez Percé chief, and repeatedly spoke of “our people, our culture, our beliefs, our blood.” He vehemently objected to the idea that real Native Americans might take issue with his claims. His final message to me was: “No people should be allowed to keep their culture just for themselves.”

As a Native American in Germany, when I am asked honest questions, I give honest answers, and if I don’t know something, I direct the person toward a reliable source of information. When I am dismissed by hobbyists who think they know more about my people and culture than I do, I do not let them bother me. Instead, I try to educate those who are willing to listen and hope they will support causes that help improve the life and future of Native Americans.
AmigoKumeyaay is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-24-2013, 07:29 PM   #5
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
Ndnsoldierboy's Avatar
 
Items ElephantDevilPresentGuitar
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Ndnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond repute
Ndnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond reputeNdnsoldierboy has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Home of the Brave
Posts: 35,388
Credits: 29,749.18
Savings: 52.80
I was stationed in Germany 2010-12 these folks didn't know my Tribe. Which is Nez Perce.

I seen a store in Idar Oberstein, Germany selling dream catchers, arrowheads, kachina dolls, turquoise jewelry, pottery, tomahawks, drums, all of it made in China of course. I checked the tags to see where it was made.

Guess the Germans don't like being German.
__________________

R.I.P. my Bros from the 1st MAR DIV, 3rd MAR DIV, 25th I.D., 10th MTN DIV, V Corps, 170th IBCT who gave their lives in the Cold War, Marines we lost in Korea during Team Spirit '89 & Okinawa '89- bodies never recovered, Panama, 1st Gulf War, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq...




Soon you will learn to appreciate me Powwows.com.

Ndnsoldierboy is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-24-2013, 07:39 PM   #6
Junior Dancer
 
Mato-Zi-Win's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond repute
Mato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 125
Credits: 2,862.56
Savings: 0.00
Crazy...
AmigoKumeyaay likes this.
__________________
Wayachi ya'chin he?
Mato-Zi-Win is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-24-2013, 07:41 PM   #7
Pronounced like "docket"
 
docat's Avatar
 
Items Rainbow$CakeTreasure Chest
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
docat has a reputation beyond repute
docat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,502
Blog Entries: 54
Credits: 7,375.82
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
His final message to me was: “No people should be allowed to keep their culture just for themselves.”

WOW. Who do these people think they are? This is the most ridiculous thing to embrace the fraud that they are NDN in any sense of the word, and they can own the culture because they are reincarnated NDNs?

The only thing red about these people are that they likely have SUNBURN from all their outdoor activities.
docat is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-24-2013, 08:00 PM   #8
On The Rocks
 
AmigoKumeyaay's Avatar
 
Items ElephantTreasure ChestPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lands of Kumeyaay, Luiseno, Cupeno, & Cahuilla
Posts: 4,976
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 46,096.99
Savings: 1.00
My YouTube channel statistics show Germany as my third biggest source of viewers after USA, and Canada...

I'm hoping those viewers are Natives stationed over there, or decent folks at least,

...not hobby-lobby kooks
AmigoKumeyaay is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-24-2013, 08:03 PM   #9
Junior Dancer
 
Mato-Zi-Win's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond repute
Mato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond reputeMato-Zi-Win has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 125
Credits: 2,862.56
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
My YouTube channel statistics show Germany as my third biggest source of viewers after USA, and Canada...

I'm hoping those viewers are Natives stationed over there, or decent folks at least,

...not hobby-lobby kooks
Most likely they are the wannabes.. Prolly copying all the designs on the powwow outfits if you upload those kinda of vids.
__________________
Wayachi ya'chin he?
Mato-Zi-Win is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-24-2013, 08:12 PM   #10
On The Rocks
 
AmigoKumeyaay's Avatar
 
Items ElephantTreasure ChestPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lands of Kumeyaay, Luiseno, Cupeno, & Cahuilla
Posts: 4,976
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 46,096.99
Savings: 1.00
Well, my channel is dedicated to recording cultural history here in southwest America.

Powwows, bird singing gatherings, whatever is permitted to be filmed and shared.

I have some polynesian dance events, and one authentic Irish festival so far.

Scottish Highland games are next, I hope...or wherever people invite me!

Amigo Kandu - YouTube
muskrat_skull likes this.
AmigoKumeyaay is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-25-2013, 06:59 AM   #11
Powwow Dude
 
Josiah's Avatar
 
Items DevilUser Name Style ChangeUser Title Style Change
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Center of the Universe: Oklahoma
Posts: 6,924
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 23,285.24
Savings: 1.00
Not just Germany do you see these groups but:
Poland
England
France

and when they have emigrated to the US they bring these groups with them and you can find them on any weekend somewhere in the States.
Some have no interest in meeting "Real" Indians...
I see the same sort of Hobbiests who reenact the Civil War and even Middle Ages in the numerous craft fairs.
Make believe also
muskrat_skull likes this.
__________________
ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
Till I Die!
Josiah is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-25-2013, 08:35 AM   #12
FGW
 
Spiritflight's Avatar
 
Items TreePresentChange User Title
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Spiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond repute
Spiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: out there
Posts: 5,831
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 20,975.26
Savings: 0.00
I heard of those hobbyist german NDN copycats, I do not approve that, I wrote that too in some other thread here. Why do those hobbyists not accept ordinary germans? Do they live a parallel copied - what ever they believe NDN's are like - kind of life?

I didn't know that it's supposed to be like 40000 germans doing that. Strange. Why do germans not like to be german? Because of history, so they may change the other way and want to be good germans in the sense of Karl May's fictional NDN character Winnetou.

What's behind it? Decendends from germans being part of WW2 are fed up with being pointed at by the world and called nazi. Maybe they like to show the world that they are good people and don't know how to do it, so this endless finger pointing at them due to WW2 will stop.

A helpless (maybe unconcious) try to ab-use what's a good NDN to them related to Karl May with the difference of meet ups with real Indians today? I don't know.
wardancer likes this.
__________________
“It is better to have less thunder in the mouth
and more lightning in the hand.”
Spiritflight is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-25-2013, 09:50 AM   #13
Webmaster
 
Paul G's Avatar
 
Items PresentUser Name Style ChangeSteal PointsCake
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Paul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond repute
Paul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond reputePaul G has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 28,735
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 8,474.20
Savings: 0.00
It's not just Germany!

Natives in Paris: Meet the Bareback Riders Keeping it Real for Disney - ICTMN.com
muskrat_skull likes this.
Paul G is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-25-2013, 10:42 AM   #14
FGW
 
Spiritflight's Avatar
 
Items TreePresentChange User Title
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Spiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond repute
Spiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond reputeSpiritflight has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: out there
Posts: 5,831
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 20,975.26
Savings: 0.00
Money helps - hm... - as long as them NDN's won't sell out - that - if you know what I mean.
__________________
“It is better to have less thunder in the mouth
and more lightning in the hand.”
Spiritflight is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-25-2013, 12:41 PM   #15
Pronounced like "docket"
 
docat's Avatar
 
Items Rainbow$CakeTreasure Chest
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
docat has a reputation beyond repute
docat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond reputedocat has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,502
Blog Entries: 54
Credits: 7,375.82
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul G View Post

I had no idea that it was so widespread! And the thought that in O.P.'s article they believe that we have no exclusive rights to our OWN HERITAGE is so bizarre.

I can see why some in Germany might not have happy thoughts about their past, but their ancient tribal past was probably exciting and noble. Why not emulate that? They rode horses and some were nomadic and they had a culture. I'm sure it was an exciting life.

But to think that this is worldwide, not just a few Europeans, it is starting to make me standoffish about writing and sharing even generic craft information here.

If you remember the thread where the man in the UK wanted to make some sacred headgear (he's thinking he's not going to offend anyone all the way across the pond)...and the others in Europe wanting to know where to buy "AUTHENTIC" bones and stone fetishes...it was so strange to get such questions from people so far removed from NDNs.

And this phenomenon is not just in Europe, it is in Asia too. we had a poster that came on here who believed Koreans and NDNs are one race and one people and should recognize each other as "brothers."

The world isn't trying to emulate tribes in Africa or tribes in the deep Amazon or tribes in Mongolia...which have not had as much European influence.

I'm surprised. Paul G, do you have stats which state how many members of powwows are in Europe, asia, etc etc? Where are the members located?
docat is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-25-2013, 02:02 PM   #16
Powwow Dude
 
Josiah's Avatar
 
Items DevilUser Name Style ChangeUser Title Style Change
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Center of the Universe: Oklahoma
Posts: 6,924
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 23,285.24
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by docat View Post

I had no idea that it was so widespread! And the thought that in O.P.'s article they believe that we have no exclusive rights to our OWN HERITAGE is so bizarre.

I can see why some in Germany might not have happy thoughts about their past, but their ancient tribal past was probably exciting and noble. Why not emulate that? They rode horses and some were nomadic and they had a culture. I'm sure it was an exciting life.

But to think that this is worldwide, not just a few Europeans, it is starting to make me standoffish about writing and sharing even generic craft information here.

If you remember the thread where the man in the UK wanted to make some sacred headgear (he's thinking he's not going to offend anyone all the way across the pond)...and the others in Europe wanting to know where to buy "AUTHENTIC" bones and stone fetishes...it was so strange to get such questions from people so far removed from NDNs.

And this phenomenon is not just in Europe, it is in Asia too. we had a poster that came on here who believed Koreans and NDNs are one race and one people and should recognize each other as "brothers."

The world isn't trying to emulate tribes in Africa or tribes in the deep Amazon or tribes in Mongolia...which have not had as much European influence.

I'm surprised. Paul G, do you have stats which state how many members of powwows are in Europe, asia, etc etc? Where are the members located?
This is nothing new!
not for this site and certainly for Europe some of these groups go back decades

And before that our crafts are traded in Europe for BIG BUCKS

Long before Powwows.com
muskrat_skull likes this.
__________________
ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
Till I Die!
Josiah is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-25-2013, 02:16 PM   #17
On The Rocks
 
AmigoKumeyaay's Avatar
 
Items ElephantTreasure ChestPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lands of Kumeyaay, Luiseno, Cupeno, & Cahuilla
Posts: 4,976
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 46,096.99
Savings: 1.00
Wild West Show in Europe

Native Americans: 1885-1930: The Wild West Show

1885-1930: The Wild West Show

When Sitting Bull agreed to join Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show in 1885, he probably didn't realize he was about to make a major contribution to the stereotyping of the American Indian and the romanticizing of the American West in the popular imagination. Sitting Bull himself was a major attraction, as thousands of spectators turned out to catch a real-life glimpse of the infamous "Killer of Custer." A photograph of Sitting Bull with Buffalo Bill taken by William Cross in 1885 was one of the most popular souvenirs of the show.

Invented in 1883 by Buffalo Bill, the Wild West Show became an enormous entertainment attraction well into the early Twentieth Century, Buffalo Bill and others gave it to them in the form of vaudeville-style theatrics that forever mythologized the West with their presentation of that rapidly vanishing way of life.

Buffalo Bill even took his show to Europe in 1886, to wild acclaim.


Other Native Americans who performed with the show included Geronimo, Chief Joseph, and Rains In The Face, who reportedly was the Indian who had actually killed General Custer at Little Bighorn. The show featured as many as 1200 performers and hundreds of large animals, including a large herd of buffalo, one of the last still surviving in the United States.

Typically, the show concluded with a grand finale, often a dramatization of savage Indians attacking and burning a White settlement, only to be repulsed by Buffalo Bill and other cowboys.

Buffalo’s Bill’s Wild West Show captivated audiences from 1883-1913. In 1887 Cody responded to a request by Queen Victoria to appear at her Golden Jubilee at Windsor Castle by taking the entire troop overseas on several ships, including 200 passengers, 97 Native Americans, 18 buffalo, 181 horses, 10 elk, 4 donkeys, 5 longhorns (Texas steers), 2 deer, 10 mules, and the deadwood concord stagecoach.

The Show toured England for the next six months, and then the following year returned to tour Europe until 1892, and again in 1906. By taking his Show overseas, Buffalo Bill spread the myth of the American West to people whose frontier has been settled centuries before, and who were hungry for the exciting adventure of the American West. To some Europeans, the Wild West show not only represented the west, but all of America, and it likely influenced the decision of many to immigrate to the United States. Bill also created the cowboy as an American icon. He gave the people of England, France, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands, and Germany a taste of the wild and romantic west
muskrat_skull likes this.
AmigoKumeyaay is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-25-2013, 02:21 PM   #18
Senior Dancer
 
muskrat_skull's Avatar
 
Items DollCatTreasure ChestDevil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
muskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond repute
muskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: at home
Posts: 689
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 18,598.94
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
My YouTube channel statistics show Germany as my third biggest source of viewers after USA, and Canada...

I'm hoping those viewers are Natives stationed over there, or decent folks at least,

...not hobby-lobby kooks
Hey Amigo! Great post. I wondered if you know about the German group that worked with the Lakota Language Consortium to produce their New Lakota Dictionary. It is called "Tatanka Oyate Verein zur Unterstutzung Indigener Voiker e. V." Most of the o's had umlauts.

I wondered if there was some Lakota Nation in Germany made up of Lakota people. Many European people claim they are learning Lakota language to preserve a dying language and that they are doing the world a service. They help many people to learn the language, including native people and they do it very well and learn it very precisely and are kind and generous in helping others. They give a lot of money probably, too. The dictionary is very good. So their seems to be an academic community there in Germany. I think it may have started with a linguist.

It is hard to learn a language without the culture, they do learn about the culture to some degree. I guess this goes back to whether to use non-native anthropologists and linguists and all, when it benefits the nation, and what is the fallout from that.

I think to the hobbyist types, which are different, it is like going to Disneyland for them. They want to experience other people's culture like eating out at a Chinese restaurant. They want the culture packaged and processed and sold to them in a sanitary little box of fun-filled activities that can include drinking of course. They want to click a button online that says "Go Indian" and have a quaint little holiday planned for them. It is just another thing to buy, people and their culture. It is an escape. An authentic Indian experience would not be acceptable to them generally.

But do we check out every person that buys our stuff on ebay and ask for a pedigree? For some items maybe, but many people make money from non-natives and do so much good with it. Eventually, these items sold will turn up somewhere! And don't people advertise things with "Native made"? Many native people contribute to this phenomena and I'm not judging it, I'm just saying it is what it is...it would be nice if people were respectful but no one can control that.

We have this phenomena here in our country, it is like those European theme type "villages" like the Wisconsin dells, Sturbridge village, and there are many more. In the Georgia mountains there is an entire fake Swiss village. If people do that to their own culture, why not to someone else's? The key aspects to these "villages" or the "clubs" is consumption and a lack of spirituality, real spirituality. And when it is included, it is so wrongly done and has a foundation of untruth and even deeper racist element.

For what they seek is a justification for connectedness to the earth and to fill a hole in themselves where spirituality belongs. But they don't wish to be spiritual because that involves sacrifice.

Connectedness to the earth is something one shouldn't have to justify, it is only because there are so many disconnected people that these people feel out of place. They are the normal ones, but their society and the mass media tells them otherwise, through ads and commercials and entertainment.

People disconnected from the earth consume much more, and leave more earthly resources for corporations to monopolize. It is typical for many people to not step on any dirt all day long, for months and years. They buy all their food at the supermarket. They do not even try to grow things, they only grow chemically treated grass and non-native plants in their yards, using systemic pesticides which are exterminating bees and other pollinators. The same with businesses and churches. Never is land left to nature. We are in control of this as well to some extent, at least our own yards. To some degree, we can change for the better.

If these people wish to celebrate that connectedness, they should ressurrect their own native history or simply create a new one, not borrowing from others. Buddhism and chritianity are happy to take in more people as well. There are naturalist Christians.

Many of these people may just want attention drawn to themselves personally and to feel special, or they could choose a more appropriate form of expression. And that totally undermines the whole thing as well. I don't see them wearing black face and playing Zulu warrior. It is only because they see Indians can be lighter skinned that they feel comfortable to want to be them. Bottom line, being Indian is "safer" for them.
muskrat_skull is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-25-2013, 02:24 PM   #19
Senior Dancer
 
muskrat_skull's Avatar
 
Items DollCatTreasure ChestDevil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
muskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond repute
muskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond reputemuskrat_skull has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: at home
Posts: 689
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 18,598.94
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by docat View Post

I had no idea that it was so widespread! And the thought that in O.P.'s article they believe that we have no exclusive rights to our OWN HERITAGE is so bizarre.

I can see why some in Germany might not have happy thoughts about their past, but their ancient tribal past was probably exciting and noble. Why not emulate that? They rode horses and some were nomadic and they had a culture. I'm sure it was an exciting life.

But to think that this is worldwide, not just a few Europeans, it is starting to make me standoffish about writing and sharing even generic craft information here.

If you remember the thread where the man in the UK wanted to make some sacred headgear (he's thinking he's not going to offend anyone all the way across the pond)...and the others in Europe wanting to know where to buy "AUTHENTIC" bones and stone fetishes...it was so strange to get such questions from people so far removed from NDNs.

And this phenomenon is not just in Europe, it is in Asia too. we had a poster that came on here who believed Koreans and NDNs are one race and one people and should recognize each other as "brothers."

The world isn't trying to emulate tribes in Africa or tribes in the deep Amazon or tribes in Mongolia...which have not had as much European influence.

I'm surprised. Paul G, do you have stats which state how many members of powwows are in Europe, asia, etc etc? Where are the members located?
I just repeated you. Great minds...
docat likes this.
muskrat_skull is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-25-2013, 02:29 PM   #20
On The Rocks
 
AmigoKumeyaay's Avatar
 
Items ElephantTreasure ChestPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
AmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond reputeAmigoKumeyaay has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lands of Kumeyaay, Luiseno, Cupeno, & Cahuilla
Posts: 4,976
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 46,096.99
Savings: 1.00
Hmmm...

A Wild West Show today in Germany would pack 'em in....

Ndnsoldierboy knows his way around Germany, he could be our scout,

SpiritFlight could be our translator,

WTO could tie-up and burn white people, he would be realistic enough,

I look close enough to be Wild Bill's gggg-grandson....


ROAD TRIP!


(just kidding everybody!)
Ndnsoldierboy and docat like this.
AmigoKumeyaay is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Natives Reaffirm Right To Cross Border Blackbear Native Issues 2 07-18-2006 05:24 AM
Politicians lack ideas on natives, voter says Blackbear Native Issues 0 01-03-2006 09:45 PM
Columbus helped all of us find a better way--yes, the natives, too Blackbear Native Issues 5 10-14-2005 12:09 PM
Child-welfare law blamed for whisking natives south Eagle Watcher Archives 3 06-08-2001 12:32 PM
Things you never hear Natives saying.... Singing Eagle Archives 66 03-21-2001 01:49 AM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery