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Old 09-02-2005, 10:23 AM   #21
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Hey Whome, hows bout clearing up something. Your post yesterday @11:49 Am you stated we were in the dark about the origin of the numerals "49" yet today, 9:08 AM, you posted a reply to Singerdad you have knowlege as to the birth of the famous numbers "49" saying you won't post it on line and that, "It's not that big a deal." Why not?? What's up dude?
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:44 AM   #22
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more questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
This brings the debate who is more credible in obtaining Indian information:

The Indian who lives his culture OR/VS the non Indian scholar who studies the Indian?

"THERE IS A GREAT WEALTH OF NATIVE ORAL HISTORY AND KNOWLEDGE THAT IS NOT MEANT FOR SCHOLARS OR TO BE SHARED OUTSIDE OF OUR CULTURE."
WhoMe, thank you for clearing up the Lewis and Clark misnomer. I also am of the opinion that an INDIAN who lives his culture is far more credible than the scholar who studied the INDIAN.

I am curious if you have had a chance to read the thesis I posted? If so, from your knowledge, is the author totally off base from his research and participation in our culture about the history of our Veteren Songs and not neccesarily the '49' songs. I guess what I am asking is, "are his writings anything worth believing or mainly a bunch of crap"?

WhoMe, I am very appreciative that you choose to keep some of your knowledge private as it was trusted to you.
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:44 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by posha one
Hey Whome, hows bout clearing up something. Your post yesterday @11:49 Am you stated we were in the dark about the origin of the numerals "49" yet today, 9:08 AM, you posted a reply to Singerdad you have knowlege as to the birth of the famous numbers "49" saying you won't post it on line and that, "It's not that big a deal." Why not?? What's up dude?
Dude,

I have shared this information with several individuals on powwows.com that I know in person. There are trust and integrity issues here.

Just because someone posts a question about Indian culture on the internet doesn't mean they are going to get an answer. If I go to a ceremonial and someone who I am not acquainted with asks what went on inside... chances are, they aren't going to get a reply.

Is this hard to understand?

There is no mysticism with the 49 origin. It all makes a lot of sense in both time, location and circumstances.

p.s. Thanks for keeping time of my posts. *L
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Last edited by WhoMe; 09-02-2005 at 10:48 AM..
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Old 09-02-2005, 11:21 AM   #24
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"OOOOH HONEY....HONEY....HONEY OPEN THE DOOR...."

WhoMe ya just can't get a break buddy....i think it's better that the 49 is a mystery! Ya gotta enjoy the "urban legend" of it all....No matter what the truth may be there will be someone to challenge you & disagree with the origins. Just as many of our other native social gathering, the 49 has evolved from what it started as, that's a given in todays society. It's almost pointless to believe that the original was exactly as it is today...come on people!

"OOOOH WHOME....WHOME....WHOME START A NEW THREAD..." HAHAHA aye!
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Old 09-02-2005, 11:39 AM   #25
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origins of songs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Native Air
WhoMe, I am in no way trying to defend this author, but I believe his intentions in writing "It was first observed as early as the Lewis and Clark expedition in 1804.", were to say that it wasn't 'documented' until then. At that time, was Lewis and Clark the first white men to come in contact with Indians in the Upper Plains and Northwest?

From my reading on this forum, you are a very knowledgeable individual concerning Indian History and Culture, do you agree with what his writing had to say about the history of songs? If not, I am interested in finding out the true history or ori gin of our songs.
My brother you'll have to go waaaaaaay back to northern Asia. Start with the Innu and work yourb way back. You may know that traditions such as Maya and Aztec pyramide building are believed to be paralleled north to south. Their are sites such as the snakes and turtle mounds that are believe to be synonimous. The reason that they are not as grand is thew climate short summers & long winters. The migration came from the Beiring straight south allong the west coast. When the Icfe ages ended people migrated east to the central plains then to the east coast,after sucessive melting of the ice cap. Enjoy your research br.
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Old 09-02-2005, 12:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pix_xl2call@hotmail.
. . . The migration came from the Beiring straight south allong the west coast. When the Icfe ages ended people migrated east to the central plains then to the east coast,after sucessive melting of the ice cap.

pix_:

Again this "theory" is another case of nonIndians deciding and defining that North American Aboriginal People came from Siberia.

"This is not where we believe we came from."

Our oral histories tells us of our creation that originated on THIS continent.

The land bridge theory you speak of, is dispelled by human evidence in both north and south America predating the land bridge theory by 18,000 years.


Who knows what is yet to be found.....

_


or how old the songs are that are still sung today...

_

By the way kiiyaaniiasdzaa, thank you for posting this thread. I will tell you the origin of the 49 in person when I see you in Albuquerque.
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Last edited by WhoMe; 09-02-2005 at 12:13 PM..
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Old 09-02-2005, 12:18 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pix_xl2call@hotmail.
My brother you'll have to go waaaaaaay back to northern Asia. Start with the Innu and work yourb way back. You may know that traditions such as Maya and Aztec pyramide building are believed to be paralleled north to south. Their are sites such as the snakes and turtle mounds that are believe to be synonimous. The reason that they are not as grand is thew climate short summers & long winters. The migration came from the Beiring straight south allong the west coast. When the Icfe ages ended people migrated east to the central plains then to the east coast,after sucessive melting of the ice cap. Enjoy your research br.
This is so much crap! Has anyone even considered that maybe, just maybe the land bridge went the other way and some of those Asians are just ancient Inuit people?
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Old 09-02-2005, 12:36 PM   #28
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WhoMe, now that I know, for sure,
reading this thread is so much more enjoyable!
A-I-O, A-I-O, A-I-O.....
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Old 09-02-2005, 01:04 PM   #29
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where did the 49 come from?

I think if there is anything about our people that I have a little understanding about it would probably be the 49.
I heard that when young men were old enough to try and lead a war journey or horse stealing raid, He would ride his horse back and forth through camp. He would use his shield as a drum and hit it with his bow. He would sing war journey songs. If anyone else in the camp thought this young man had the ability to lead a journey then they would join him as he rode through camp the rest of the night. All this time the families of these men would prepare for their journey. When the dawn came about the men would be ready and then the women would sing love songs while their men rode off to engage other tribes. I have heard this is why we sing 49 or horse stealing songs at night and round dance or love songs in the morning with the light.
Maybe I don't know what I am talking about but it is the way I learned about the 49. Not everyone knows the songs and the appropriate time they should be sung.
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Old 09-02-2005, 01:41 PM   #30
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This so called "land bridge" is not worth talking about if anyone knows ANYTHING about their people. These bull**** theories are like opinions and ya know what they say about that. I was kicked out of an anthropology class while in college because I disputed the proffessor's "land bridge" claim and his swearing to such bull that ALL NDNS ARE MONGOLIAN. They ALL have straight black hair, slanted eyes and are short in stature. Well some other grave robbers (anthropoligists) uncovered a grave in the Black Hills and the skeleton meassured well over 6 feet 6 inches. Uh-Oh, so much for that theory. Good luck suckers.............
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Old 09-02-2005, 01:51 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pix_xl2call@hotmail.
My brother you'll have to go waaaaaaay back to northern Asia. Start with the Innu and work yourb way back. You may know that traditions such as Maya and Aztec pyramide building are believed to be paralleled north to south. Their are sites such as the snakes and turtle mounds that are believe to be synonimous. The reason that they are not as grand is thew climate short summers & long winters. The migration came from the Beiring straight south allong the west coast. When the Icfe ages ended people migrated east to the central plains then to the east coast,after sucessive melting of the ice cap. Enjoy your research br.
i had a thread called 'where do we come from'...check it out...
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Old 09-02-2005, 02:03 PM   #32
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Yeah, SingerDad, that's pretty much what I have always heard too. Except the version of the story I heard was that "100 warriors (unspecified as to Nation or location) went away and only 49 came back"...

That is all the explination I ever got. Never did figure out how that translated to an allnight party, but here we are.. Maybe its one of those "Eat Drink and Be Merry" type deals???
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Old 09-02-2005, 03:45 PM   #33
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Cool

Once a pony time....

There were 49 Mongolians who lived near the 49th parallel. As winter set in, it dipped below 49 degrees in the daytime and it was time to move to a warmer climate. 49 days later at approximately 00:49 a.m. the 49 Mongolians found themselves 49 miles into a great ice bridge that extended from Siberia to a "new world." Once across this great ice bridge they spotted 49 caribou moving south at about 49 mph. The 49 Mongolians gave each other 49 hi-fives and jumped up-and-down 49 times with joyful expectations of a great meal. They gathered 49 sticks and rubbed them together 49 times at 49 degree angles to produce a 49 inch diameter fire. They cooked a recently skinned 49-hands tall caribou for 49 minutes. After the meal, the 49 Mongolians fell asleep with 49 full stomachs. As time would pass 49 years later. . .They separated into 49 directions and populated the new continent with 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 decendents. As history would have it, 49 warriors got in a big battle with 50 enemies. Only one guy died and got counted coup on 49 times, which left 49 warriors total on both sides. As reparation, the 49 warriors gave the 50 -1 warriors 49 gourds and 49 fans with 49 feathers. They also gave them 49 original songs to sing only after hours. And to this day when someone asks....


"where did the 49 come from?"

you can tell them this story.
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Last edited by WhoMe; 09-02-2005 at 03:56 PM..
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Old 09-02-2005, 03:54 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Once a pony time....

There were 49 Mongolians who lived near the 49th parallel. As winter set in, it dipped below 49 degrees in the daytime and it was time to move to a warmer climate. 49 days later at approximately 00:49 a.m. the 49 Mongolians found themselves 49 miles into a great ice bridge that extended from Siberia to a "new world." Once across this great ice bridge they spotted 49 caribou moving south at about 49 mph. The 49 Mongolians gave each other 49 hi-fives and jumped up-and-down 49 times with joyful expectations of a great meal. They gathered 49 sticks and rubbed them together 49 times at 49 degree angles to produce a 49 inch diameter fire. They cooked a recently skinned 49-hands tall caribou for 49 minutes. After the meal, the 49 Mongolians fell asleep with 49 full stomachs. As time would pass 49 years later. . .They separated into 49 directions and populated the new continent with 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 decendents. As history would have it, 49 warriors got in a big battle with 50 enemies. Only one guy died and got counted coup on 49 times, which left 49 warriors total on one side. As reparation, the 49 warriors gave the 50 -1 warriors 49 gourds. They also gave them 49 original songs to sing only after hours. And to this day when someone asks....


"where did the 49 come from?"

you can tell them this story.



Funny shyt...lmfao!!!
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Old 09-02-2005, 05:23 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Once a pony time....

There were 49 Mongolians who lived near the 49th parallel. As winter set in, it dipped below 49 degrees in the daytime and it was time to move to a warmer climate. 49 days later at approximately 00:49 a.m. the 49 Mongolians found themselves 49 miles into a great ice bridge that extended from Siberia to a "new world." Once across this great ice bridge they spotted 49 caribou moving south at about 49 mph. The 49 Mongolians gave each other 49 hi-fives and jumped up-and-down 49 times with joyful expectations of a great meal. They gathered 49 sticks and rubbed them together 49 times at 49 degree angles to produce a 49 inch diameter fire. They cooked a recently skinned 49-hands tall caribou for 49 minutes. After the meal, the 49 Mongolians fell asleep with 49 full stomachs. As time would pass 49 years later. . .They separated into 49 directions and populated the new continent with 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 decendents. As history would have it, 49 warriors got in a big battle with 50 enemies. Only one guy died and got counted coup on 49 times, which left 49 warriors total on both sides. As reparation, the 49 warriors gave the 50 -1 warriors 49 gourds and 49 fans with 49 feathers. They also gave them 49 original songs to sing only after hours. And to this day when someone asks....


"where did the 49 come from?"

you can tell them this story.
What an imagination!
That's the one!
That's the best one yet!
"49" times over!
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:25 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Once a pony time....

There were 49 Mongolians who lived near the 49th parallel. As winter set in, it dipped below 49 degrees in the daytime and it was time to move to a warmer climate. 49 days later at approximately 00:49 a.m. the 49 Mongolians found themselves 49 miles into a great ice bridge that extended from Siberia to a "new world." Once across this great ice bridge they spotted 49 caribou moving south at about 49 mph. The 49 Mongolians gave each other 49 hi-fives and jumped up-and-down 49 times with joyful expectations of a great meal. They gathered 49 sticks and rubbed them together 49 times at 49 degree angles to produce a 49 inch diameter fire. They cooked a recently skinned 49-hands tall caribou for 49 minutes. After the meal, the 49 Mongolians fell asleep with 49 full stomachs. As time would pass 49 years later. . .They separated into 49 directions and populated the new continent with 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 decendents. As history would have it, 49 warriors got in a big battle with 50 enemies. Only one guy died and got counted coup on 49 times, which left 49 warriors total on both sides. As reparation, the 49 warriors gave the 50 -1 warriors 49 gourds and 49 fans with 49 feathers. They also gave them 49 original songs to sing only after hours. And to this day when someone asks....


"where did the 49 come from?"

you can tell them this story.



Haha...LMAO
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:58 PM   #37
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back to the topic.

I don't know why some people think they have all the answers to every question posted. It seems that there are no absolutes in certain things. Just because there maybe some things that can be true for this tribe does not mean it is true for all areas and all tribes. To think so would be pretty arogant. Like someone else said, does it really matter? Isn't there more important things to worry about?
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Old 09-02-2005, 11:45 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by WhoMe
Once a pony time....

There were 49 Mongolians who lived near the 49th parallel. As winter set in, it dipped below 49 degrees in the daytime and it was time to move to a warmer climate. 49 days later at approximately 00:49 a.m. the 49 Mongolians found themselves 49 miles into a great ice bridge that extended from Siberia to a "new world." Once across this great ice bridge they spotted 49 caribou moving south at about 49 mph. The 49 Mongolians gave each other 49 hi-fives and jumped up-and-down 49 times with joyful expectations of a great meal. They gathered 49 sticks and rubbed them together 49 times at 49 degree angles to produce a 49 inch diameter fire. They cooked a recently skinned 49-hands tall caribou for 49 minutes. After the meal, the 49 Mongolians fell asleep with 49 full stomachs. As time would pass 49 years later. . .They separated into 49 directions and populated the new continent with 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 decendents. As history would have it, 49 warriors got in a big battle with 50 enemies. Only one guy died and got counted coup on 49 times, which left 49 warriors total on both sides. As reparation, the 49 warriors gave the 50 -1 warriors 49 gourds and 49 fans with 49 feathers. They also gave them 49 original songs to sing only after hours. And to this day when someone asks....


"where did the 49 come from?"

you can tell them this story.
Thanks for that WhoMe....priceless.
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Old 09-06-2005, 03:25 PM   #39
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49

This is how I learned it when I was young (an awful long time ago).

In 1849 there was a bunch of white soldiers going to CA for the gold rush. For whatever reason they fell in with a band of us and somehow or other there was some sort of celebration which was supposed to end fairly early in the evening. Since this "celebration" wasn't voluntary, after things were SUPPOSED to quiet down, us nasty savages snuck out of sight but not out of ear and drummed and danced all night. The "infernal racket" kept the soldiers up all night and caused them to change the route they took on subsequent trips.

49 from the year.

That's how my Dad told me.

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Old 09-07-2005, 10:44 AM   #40
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ima Humanbean
back to the topic. . . does it really matter? Isn't there more important things to worry about?

Ima H,


No. It doesn't really matter.

Yes. There are always more important things to worry about.

Nobody's worried about this one.

So what's your point?
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