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Old 07-01-2004, 05:22 PM   #21
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North Carolina should take a cue from the northern plains and have a whipman. And don't forget the spoonkeeper!
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Old 07-01-2004, 06:11 PM   #22
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by sltate
Okay, here is my feelings on this subject:
Competition pow wows are just that, you are there to compete. It's not about how much you dance, it's how you danced during your competition song and how the judges chose to judge. It's up to each judge to pick their dancer on their abilities, regalia, etc.(they may pick you because you do dance intertribals, who knows?) Then out come the winners they chose. End of story. LOL
As for myself, I dance the intertribals because I want to. My dad used to tell us to dance when you had the opportunity, and dance with all your heart. You don't know who is in the audience who may see you dancing and you make them feel good. They may be broken hearted, ailing, or just down and they see you dancing with all you have and you bless them. That is what dancing is all about. Not visiting during intertribals, you can visit outside the arena. When you step into the arena, you dance. I have competed against some ladies that don't dance anything but what they get points for,and that is just them. I get a blessing and a good feeling when I dance the intertribals, and I learn more songs and how each drum beats the drum when I dance the intertribals. Either way, I get a blessing from this dancing.
I dance hard in my contest too, but I don't judge anyone who chooses to dance only thier contest. They are missing out of something good. My dad, Jonathon WindyBoy,and my brother, RG traveled and lived the "pow wow for a living" life and they always danced intertribals and enjoyed that life. If someone is a strong enough dancer to live on pow wows, power to them. We all have to admit, that would be the ultimate life, pow wow every weekend and make good money at it!! LOL
Amen on all counts!:Thumbs It would be grand if we could 'live' on the pow-wow trail. I often resent that I can't get away from work to even get to some of the pow-wows I like...
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Old 07-01-2004, 07:16 PM   #23
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Pow wows are different .. what else is there to say. but as for dancers who do that kinda well suck (their atitudes, toward grand entries)
but that's just my opinion... i hope it makes sense... lol
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Old 07-02-2004, 01:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDNGurl92782
I'm not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers by doing this, I just want people's opinion.... What do you guys think about dancers that only go to pow wows to dance what they need to dance.Such as only dancing their contest song and one grand entry and place? There are good dancers out here and most know that they are good but should you be and act so big headed to be this way at pow wows? Do they think that they should be able to disrespect the circle and other dancers by not dancing all grand entries, intertribals, exibitions, and specials?
What does that teach our young ones out here? That when I'm good or when people know me, that I don't have to put my heart into it or I don't have to dance my hardest? You should go to a pow wow to dance because you love to dance not to throw on your outfit, dance contest,take your outfit off and wait for winners to be called.
As I said before not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings or upset anyone just want an honest opinion.
at out powwows you are supposed to dance all the songs you are supposed to, there is no do what you want and than change, if you are there to dance, than you dance
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Old 07-02-2004, 03:17 AM   #25
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LOL So true, I have the J-0-B now too. I used to travel alot and pow wow for a living then reality kicked in, the kids had to start school, the younger girls came up out of teens and somehow I got older LOL. It was fun, alot of traveling, meeting people from different tribes and just dancing, dancing, dancing. But then I grew up. LOL No, really, it is a fun life and one that everyone would live if it were possible, but it isn't....not for long anyways. Sooner or later you have kids, mortgages, cars that you actually expect to run well, and then bills, bills, bills. LOL Now I only travel to pow wows that are close by or that I have saved up my money to go to, or that my kids want to attend. Other than that I have to work and go to school and then the kids have school so pow wow is for fun, not for finances anymore. LOL
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Old 07-02-2004, 04:31 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDNGurl92782
I understand that some people make a living off of dancing but that is by choice. And no not everyone out here is jealous or trying to pick something to argue about. But I have been to a couple pow wows where a few dancers have danced just 1 grand entry and just contest and still placed first. And I don't think that is right. It's not fair for the other dancers that have danced all weekend. It shouldn't matter if you have a "name" or if you have a reputation at pow wows. If you dance and deserve a place then you deserve a place. It shouldn't depend on your name or where you come from. Some dancers don't even wear plumes or carry a fan if they see that there is nobody there with a name or somebody that they think will give them contest. But there is always somebody bigger and better out there. But it shouldn't be that way. Should be out there to have fun and dance and not have to worry about money all the time. People shouldn't have to go to a pow wow and think gosh such and such is here this weekend I know I won't be getting in. Just because someone has a "name" or is from that community doesn't mean that there isn't a another dancer there that is just as equal in dancing.
I'm just tired of seeing dancers that know that they are good not participating in all activities!
Whoa there a minute! Before you start another thread that gets everyone all :rtf: u need to get specific. I see ur from out east and those powwows r a lot different then the ones west of the Miss. I been to the ones out east and it's whole diff. kind of powwow n dancn stylz then people from out this way. Most of the ndns out this way have (not just a tribe) but also a rez they belong to, and lots of powwows out this way are on the rez &more contest type powwows. Most of people at the powwow r ndns who want 2c the competions and to have plain ol fun. Powwows out east tend to be more of a spectator thang w/lot of non ndns comming to see "an indian powwow". Don't deny it :NoNo cuz I been to lots out east over lotta yrs. ...........as for this "some people don't wear a plume or carry a fan" thang...waaaaaaa!!!!! :Cry What the H*LL does wear'n plumes n carrying fans have 2 do w/dancin in the arbor or arena????? :duhh: Some of the tribz from up north out this way & some in the southwest like the pueblos, dine, have traditions they follow regarding eagle feathers &plumes esp those who still have tradional elders still living. Lots of them have to be "feathered", or "initiated" before they can wear any type of eagle feather by going through traditional ceremonies so they don't wear eagle feathers till they do.

NEwayz if ur still cryn bout the whole thang, blame the judge, after all its not the danzers fault the judge voted for 'em, even if the danzers just shown' up for contests. I alwayz danzed the grands n the intertribals, but the judges are the ones who place the danzers.
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Old 07-02-2004, 09:21 AM   #27
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several things

North Carolina in regards to that statement, do you mean AICA or do you mean just North Carolina in general...I was under the impression that North Carolina was a Southern Dance because the Host Drum was Southern so they followed Southern protocol if I am wrong please tell me so..Whipmen is a Northern thing...so they wouldn't use Whipmen. Secondly, I was at a dance in Oklahoma and it was so funny...I was always taught you don't walk through Grand Entry you dance your style...the whole way through...I got a little paranoid once because I was dancing and none of the other fancy dancers were dancing...until we passed the Emcee stand where the judges were and all the shawls started moving at once....as soon as we were past it...I was the only one left dancing and then it occurred to me I was probably one of the only ones not competing that dance. ha ha ha but that's just a shame...so is that saying that some people are only out there dancing for the wrong reasons or just in vain...forgetting why they are supposed to be dancing in the first place????
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Old 07-02-2004, 12:31 PM   #28
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Opinion

You know, I can see both sides of this issue. There are dancers whose livelihoods depend upon their ability to keep themselves in top shape. These dancers are those that go from pw to pw ALL year in order to keep their "name" up. Cuz let's face it, p/w biz is pretty brutal. Dancing is only half the battle. So these dancers who keep themselves from tiring out will just sit there until their contest and also to not "wear-out" their outfits because the sweatier you get...the more toll it takes on your outfit. Especially those dancers who aren't fortunate enough to have someone perpetually make stuff for them.

So sometimes, it's not so easy to condemn these people. Pow-wow results are so unstable and uncertain, that anyone who was in that position would strive to protect their standing. I mean, if you don't have a job, you don't have an education because you've pow-wowed all your life, I would too. For them, they're not thinking about "right now". It's all pow-wow politics for the next pow-wow.

Unless a dancer keeps on top of the game, there's ALWAYS somebody better, faster, younger, than you!
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Old 07-02-2004, 02:16 PM   #29
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Here's my 2 cents on this subject. I think you should dance while you're in the arena, not walking and talking like I've seen at a lot of pow wows. I know people like to visit and exchange the latest gossip, but they should do that outside of the arena. But then again, you just can't help it if someone decides to dance with you and wants to chat. Can't be rude to them. I heard this one MC at one of the northern pow wows call the dancers, that only dance during their contest, Wannabes. I guess he's noticed dancers just dancing when they have to.
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Old 07-02-2004, 06:27 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Orphan
You know, I can see both sides of this issue. There are dancers whose livelihoods depend upon their ability to keep themselves in top shape. These dancers are those that go from pw to pw ALL year in order to keep their "name" up. Cuz let's face it, p/w biz is pretty brutal. Dancing is only half the battle. So these dancers who keep themselves from tiring out will just sit there until their contest and also to not "wear-out" their outfits because the sweatier you get...the more toll it takes on your outfit. Especially those dancers who aren't fortunate enough to have someone perpetually make stuff for them.

So sometimes, it's not so easy to condemn these people. Pow-wow results are so unstable and uncertain, that anyone who was in that position would strive to protect their standing. I mean, if you don't have a job, you don't have an education because you've pow-wowed all your life, I would too. For them, they're not thinking about "right now". It's all pow-wow politics for the next pow-wow.

Unless a dancer keeps on top of the game, there's ALWAYS somebody better, faster, younger, than you!
Yes, there's always somebody better, faster, younger.... When pow-wow has been your whole life and you find yourself in your thirties or forties with a body that's plum worn out--or even moderately so--you get out there to 'stomp the grass down' and almost get plowed over by some whirling dervish of a young dancer who hasn't even hit stride yet and he's already movin' better than you! And when you've given your life to pow-wow, winning big for so many years and then at pow-wow after pow-wow you place last or not at all; traveling to the next pow-wow hoping so and so won't be there so you might get in the money so you can pay your child support, put gas in the car, hit the McDonalds drive through... How about when you've been used to young kids looking up to you as the kind of dancer they want to be when they 'grow up', then as you get older and despite still bustin' your tail and doin' your best that next generation of youngsters aren't lookin' up at you, they're running to someone else... Choosing pow-wows as a lifestyle isn't glamorous. Any kid that thinks it is needs a realilty check.
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Old 07-02-2004, 07:04 PM   #31
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No one is crying about the issue. It's just the fact that there are dancers that I have danced against that I never seen before until Saturday night contest and then the next day on Sunday and they end up always getting placed and I'm not blaming it on them, it's just the fact of the matter. How can u go to a pow wow and do that? I dance from the heart and that's the way to teach young ones. But if they see these people doing that then what does that teach them? And I have danced aaginst dancers with plumes and fans then one weekend because there is no one there with a "name" they feel as if they don't have to dress in complete outfit becuz there is no one there that can beat them.

All I'm saying is what happen to going out there and having fun and dancing like u have no worries in the world?? It's not all about placing and yes some people do it for a living but that is by choice!!!
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Old 07-02-2004, 07:24 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sltate
Sooner or later you have kids, mortgages, cars that you actually expect to run well, and then bills, bills, bills. LOL Now I only travel to pow wows that are close by or that I have saved up my money to go to, or that my kids want to attend. Other than that I have to work and go to school and then the kids have school so pow wow is for fun, not for finances anymore. LOL
Yep that's me too! I work all the time and now have a granddaughter so I powwow when I have the time and $$$. I travel to good powwows occasionally to visit friends, sometimes that means a 6-8 hour flight but that's cool. We go to a lot of small nearby powwows and any traditional powwows.
As far as the original post... I was taught to dance every song that you can. I've been conditioned to do it so much that it comes natural, and I don't mind it one bit. We also have Whipmen and Whipwomen around here and they make their rounds around the dance arena and if they see dancers that are just sitting there (unless they have a good reason for not dancing), their job is to make them dance and to keep order in and around the circle.

Last edited by Kakeeya; 07-02-2004 at 07:29 PM..
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Old 07-03-2004, 02:43 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDNGurl92782
No one is crying about the issue. It's just the fact that there are dancers that I have danced against that I never seen before until Saturday night contest and then the next day on Sunday and they end up always getting placed and I'm not blaming it on them, it's just the fact of the matter. How can u go to a pow wow and do that? I dance from the heart and that's the way to teach young ones. But if they see these people doing that then what does that teach them? And I have danced aaginst dancers with plumes and fans then one weekend because there is no one there with a "name" they feel as if they don't have to dress in complete outfit becuz there is no one there that can beat them.

All I'm saying is what happen to going out there and having fun and dancing like u have no worries in the world?? It's not all about placing and yes some people do it for a living but that is by choice!!!
Quite frankly, if you compare the tone of your first post to this one, that is how you came across, whiney even. Now, if you'd started out stating your point clearly, as I understand it above, I think we would all agree that perhaps some pretty squirrely judging may be going on or just plain snootiness on the part of the dancer if someone contesting just cruises in to dance their contest dances and aren't visible otherwise. But that isn't the impression you left me with initially.
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Old 07-03-2004, 03:27 AM   #34
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I was raised to dance for our elders, those that can't any longer, and for others. I'll go to a contest dance and contest but I will dance all and any other dance I can. I prefer to dance the more traditional noncontest powwows. We get to dance more often. We have raised our kids and now our grandkids to dance when ever they could even at a contest. We raised them to dance well all of the time no matter whether they contested or noncontest.

I think maybe these prodancers that won't dance between the grand entry and their contest may have lost some of the meaning of the dance.
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Old 07-03-2004, 11:20 AM   #35
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Again, there are contest powwows and there are traditional powwows.
Why are we so intent on imposing OUR belief system on someone else and being so quick to think they don't have the same beliefs or values just because they don''t do it OUR way?
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The Creator said, "A foreign race of white people will come, who will become your friends. You should treat them well."

The Creator sure had a strange sense of humor!

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Old 07-03-2004, 07:34 PM   #36
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my point is this: "there is nothing wrong with recieving money in the circle". This i ask. Which is more important too you,the MONEY or the CIRCLE. each person has to ask themselves this question and only you know the truthfull answer. If it's the money then you need to get back to the reason of the circle. If it's the circle then go, have fun and represent your family to the best of your ability and recieve your money with a good heart.
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Old 07-03-2004, 10:11 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoov4450
my point is this: "there is nothing wrong with recieving money in the circle". This i ask. Which is more important too you,the MONEY or the CIRCLE. each person has to ask themselves this question and only you know the truthfull answer. If it's the money then you need to get back to the reason of the circle. If it's the circle then go, have fun and represent your family to the best of your ability and recieve your money with a good heart.
Yes, each person has to ask themselves what their priorities in life are and quit being so obsessed about what the other guy or gal is doing or thinking, or what we think their motives are. How pompous can you get? Unless, of course, there are some very perfect individuals out there who have lived such an altruistic life as to be on a par with the Creator AND they can read minds. Just worry about your own path, your own choices; they're the only ones you have any control over in the first place.
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The Creator said, "A foreign race of white people will come, who will become your friends. You should treat them well."

The Creator sure had a strange sense of humor!

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Old 07-03-2004, 11:01 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Washakie Witch
Yes, each person has to ask themselves what their priorities in life are and quit being so obsessed about what the other guy or gal is doing or thinking, or what we think their motives are. How pompous can you get? Unless, of course, there are some very perfect individuals out there who have lived such an altruistic life as to be on a par with the Creator AND they can read minds. Just worry about your own path, your own choices; they're the only ones you have any control over in the first place.
are you implying i'm pompous. Well thats a first. I've been called many things, jerk, @sshole, stuborn, but i have to say that pompous is a first. Man, i'm moven up in this world! except for the pompous statement, I total agree with what your saying. each person controls their path no one else. i always try to say. "This is what I do or think". or "listen to the elders in your area". I would never tell someone else what to do. Even with my own family, no i might try to help them with the limit knowledge i have. If the choose to listen thats ok, if not thats ok too. So i'm sorry if i sound POMPOUS. but hey pompous does sound better than Whity. I guess i am moven up in this world!:)
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Old 07-04-2004, 01:11 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by hoov4450
are you implying i'm pompous. Well thats a first. I've been called many things, jerk, @sshole, stuborn, but i have to say that pompous is a first. Man, i'm moven up in this world! except for the pompous statement, I total agree with what your saying. each person controls their path no one else. i always try to say. "This is what I do or think". or "listen to the elders in your area". I would never tell someone else what to do. Even with my own family, no i might try to help them with the limit knowledge i have. If the choose to listen thats ok, if not thats ok too. So i'm sorry if i sound POMPOUS. but hey pompous does sound better than Whity. I guess i am moven up in this world!:)
Sorry to disappoint :50: I wasn't focusing solely on you; just that this boggling concept keeps regenerating-- intolerance of others. There's the theory that when we are hypercritical of others that we are projecting; that is, what we are criticizing in others we fear in ourselves, etc. I'm honestly not trying to be critical of you or the others; I would just like folks to take a step outside their immediate knee jerk reaction, ask themselves 'why do I even give a **** what someone else does, thinks, etc., and contemplate other points of view. Especially the young people, who tend to 'parrot' whatever is politically correct to the given situation. Just take the time to think! Listen to other viewpoints, process what you learn and hopefully this world will be a better place if the Seventh Generation does think for themselves and not let historical or personal disappointments color their perspective on life. And, by the way, we certainly share in common being called a jerk, [email protected]@hole, stubborn. I've already gotten heaps of negative rep on this, I'm sure I'll get more.
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Damme ape’semmai, "Andabichidaiboonee’ gimmadu’i.Wihyu memme hainjinee’ nahandu’i. Enne wizha sudei’ tsaangu mabizhiahkande," mai.

The Creator said, "A foreign race of white people will come, who will become your friends. You should treat them well."

The Creator sure had a strange sense of humor!


Last edited by Plenty Fox; 07-04-2004 at 01:17 AM..
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Old 07-04-2004, 01:22 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by little-ree
Whoa there a minute! Before you start another thread that gets everyone all :rtf: u need to get specific. I see ur from out east and those powwows r a lot different then the ones west of the Miss. I been to the ones out east and it's whole diff. kind of powwow n dancn stylz then people from out this way. Most of the ndns out this way have (not just a tribe) but also a rez they belong to, and lots of powwows out this way are on the rez &more contest type powwows. Most of people at the powwow r ndns who want 2c the competions and to have plain ol fun. Powwows out east tend to be more of a spectator thang w/lot of non ndns comming to see "an indian powwow". Don't deny it :NoNo cuz I been to lots out east over lotta yrs. ...........as for this "some people don't wear a plume or carry a fan" thang...waaaaaaa!!!!! :Cry What the H*LL does wear'n plumes n carrying fans have 2 do w/dancin in the arbor or arena????? :duhh: Some of the tribz from up north out this way & some in the southwest like the pueblos, dine, have traditions they follow regarding eagle feathers &plumes esp those who still have tradional elders still living. Lots of them have to be "feathered", or "initiated" before they can wear any type of eagle feather by going through traditional ceremonies so they don't wear eagle feathers till they do.

NEwayz if ur still cryn bout the whole thang, blame the judge, after all its not the danzers fault the judge voted for 'em, even if the danzers just shown' up for contests. I alwayz danzed the grands n the intertribals, but the judges are the ones who place the danzers.
very well worded. :Thumbs i think that some people think that all powwows are the same, or that they should be the same (traditions they follow regarding eagle feathers &plumes esp those who still have tradional elders still living. Lots of them have to be "feathered", or "initiated" before they can wear any type of eagle feather by going through traditional ceremonies so they don't wear eagle feathers till they do.:indian1: ) just because you don to were feathers does not mean you are not being indian enough, sometimes not wearing feathers is being indian- traditional. very well said little ree. :24:
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