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Old 08-25-2005, 01:01 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plenty Fox
Audra, do you work a 9 to 5 job Monday through Friday (and not with the tribe)? If you are married, does he? Do you have kids, particularly school age kids? This is 2005 not 1955; even in NDN country if our families do have two parents, they work. I don't know too many employer's (other than tribal) that won't mind if you stroll in whenever on MOnday or just blow it off for Tuesday; and/or take Friday's off just to get to pow-wow. Yes, listen to your body and your heart but don't forget that you are pulling in a regular paycheck so you can feed and clothe your family-don't take that for granted. A job is a precious thing, too.

Plenty Fox,

I agree with your post. Late ending powwows penalize both people who work and students.

In an earlier post you said that maybe a nationalized powwow committee could be a solution to voicing the concerns of powwow people, including this concern of powwows ending late?

A national powwow committee has already been tried. The purpose of this "national powwow committee" was to organize a "Powwow Hall of Fame" in the heart of the United Stated (Kansas) and voice powwow concerns. The list of powwow people who were nominated included many well known figures representational of regions across the US and Canada. My father was one of these nominees.

The first meeting was in Horton, Kansas (Kickapoo Golden Eagle Casino). About half of the nominees attended. The second meeting was during Denver March. About a quarter of the nominees attended. The final meeting was scheduled during the Gathering. Only 3 nominees showed up.


Well, it's been tried. *L
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Old 08-25-2005, 01:17 PM   #42
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Hey, you-all. I've attended pow-wows all my life and well, todays youth sure have it easy, tooooo easy. We camped out, cooked over a fire, got all our kids ready to dance. and yes, we sat around and waited until the wee hours to find out winners (Bismarck for example, cold, wrapped in pendletons, children sleeping in the car, starting home around 3 or 4am). All of these things because we loved doing it. If you want things easy, stay home.

Those were the days. Today everyone reserves their rooms in the hotels, motels, eats at the local buffets, restaurants, plugs in their irons, demands fresh towels everyday. Received rations every morning and enjoyed to smell of fresh coffee and bacon frying every morning.

These were the people that instilled the love of pow-wows in our young people day. Don't complain, we did all this for you younger generations so that you could enjoy going to pow-wows today. Toughen up---we did it.
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Old 08-25-2005, 01:28 PM   #43
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When I was a kid, I used to love the late powwows. I would take a nap that night, then get up and the powwow would still be kickin. then I would sleep the whole way home. Now that I drive after the long powwows, I dont think so much of em. I mean the ideal situation is to take off monday and friday, but that just doesnt happen every weekend. And gettin back around 4am and going to teach students at 6am does not feel good at all. My drum group is going to start hiring a chofer lol jk.

all jokes aside, it is TUFF to get in a vehicle and drive 12-13hrs every sunday after you get done dancing & singing in the heat. I mean i enjoy tha hell out of it in a way too, but there are many times when my eyes start to cross and road signs turn into blurs. TIME TO PULL OVER!!!!
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Old 08-25-2005, 02:48 PM   #44
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Old 08-25-2005, 02:54 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisa26
I have a Question... I've read how several people have posted that the AD's should have a better handle on time and that they shouln't do so many intertribals... but isn't that only because every drum in the line-up has to get a chance to sing, at least once? right after Grand Entry and then during their Comp?

I dont think the A.Ds have to much fault for the powwow going on too late. Thats the commitee's decision
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Old 08-25-2005, 03:52 PM   #46
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What ever happened to personal responsibility?

As a younger woman without the responsibilities of a full-time and 3 lil boyz, sure I'd stay til the wee hours of the morning but now I have real life responsibilities so I pack up my lil boyz and head home in time to get some rest so I can make it to work and my boyz can make it to school Monday morning.

As a committee person, I can honestly say our committee always tries to end early on Sunday but sometimes things are out of our hands and you've gotta go with the flow like the weather - the last two years we've had rain which forced us to change our agenda and we spent the rest of the pow wow trying to catch up in our schedule (which never happens) but we still have to make sure all the contests are fair or else we'd have people complaining about that - then we have people complaining the contests take up too much time and nobody gets a chance to dance unless they are contesting - so no matter what you do you can't please everybody - such is the life of a committee person.

I just wanted to say as a responsible adult, if I see it's getting late and I need to get my boyz home - I get my boyz home whether the pow wow is over or not - it's NOBODY'S responsibility but my own.
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Old 08-25-2005, 05:56 PM   #47
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On same page...

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Old 08-25-2005, 06:01 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Plenty Fox,

I agree with your post. Late ending powwows penalize both people who work and students.

In an earlier post you said that maybe a nationalized powwow committee could be a solution to voicing the concerns of powwow people, including this concern of powwows ending late?

A national powwow committee has already been tried. The purpose of this "national powwow committee" was to organize a "Powwow Hall of Fame" in the heart of the United Stated (Kansas) and voice powwow concerns. The list of powwow people who were nominated included many well known figures representational of regions across the US and Canada. My father was one of these nominees.

The first meeting was in Horton, Kansas (Kickapoo Golden Eagle Casino). About half of the nominees attended. The second meeting was during Denver March. About a quarter of the nominees attended. The final meeting was scheduled during the Gathering. Only 3 nominees showed up.


Well, it's been tried. *L
Per my earlier post, I did mention I thought there was some kind of committee or association, I didn't know the particulars. For something like what I was talking about I was envisioning no more than six folks. I've worked with a number of Boards and Committees and when you get too large nothing ever gets done! Organizing a hall of fame is a bit different from what I was 'proposing'.

I've read everyone's posts in this thread and, with all due respect to 'tradition' and without negating 'personal responsnibility' pow-wow committees can be part of the problem or part of the solution--their choice--and I know 'change' is difficult. But if it were to save lives it should be considered without folks getting defensive. Being asked to 'consider' changing the format/schedule isn't giving a blanket 'you stink' to a committee or pow-wow, and it isn't disrespecting our Elders (if it was good enough for us, it is good enough for you mentality) it is taking into consideration the changing times and environment we are in now and making modifications for the welfare of all. We don't live in a vacuum as some of the posts seem to suggest. If someone wants to drag out the 'tradition' argument; let's remember that the emphasis was always 'community', not 'individual' in the past, so let's honor tradition and look at the big picture instead of the small.
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Old 08-25-2005, 06:30 PM   #49
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sure it does ultimately come down to choices YOU have to make - do i leave without knowing if i placed or not? if i did how will i get my money? most committees don't give money to people other than the dancer that placed. most well more like none don't ask for mailing addresses or banking information for a deposit for monday. what if you don't have a bank account? you'd have to wait for days weeks even for a cheque/money order from committee....

sounds like rpotts doesn't dance competition or have someone with her that sings in the drum contest so she does not have to wait until the bitter end of the pow wow. so it would be quite acceptable to leave early - she has nothing to wait until the end for. but most of the dancers and singers DO...

a couple of times my hubby and i've taken separate vehicles to the pw so i can leave early - while he stays to wait for the results of the drum contest...and i also choose not to go to most pws because i DONT want to be sitting there waiting until 3 - 4 o'clock in the morning...
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Old 08-25-2005, 06:44 PM   #50
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Unhappy

I would like to see olympic style formate
get to see your points after a dance
that way you can leave early cause you know your not going to place :(
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:28 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1badazzndn
I dont think the A.Ds have to much fault for the powwow going on too late. Thats the commitee's decision
I agree that the A.D. only follows the decision of the committee. The committee has to understand the situations we have today and plan to end the dance contests on Saturday evening and finish up Sunday with plenty of intertribals and special contests (ties, team dance, two-step, and such) and award the winners early.

I can't tell you how many times I had to wait for the MC to finish his last announcement so I can starting breaking down and pack up my sound equipment only to look forward to the long drive home in the night. Then you have to get up the next morning and be at work all day. I feel for all the people that have to go through this routine every weekend.

The only other recourse I have is to apply a surcharge on my sound support services to cover another night's lodging and to cover my unplanned day off from work the next day. I have done this many times because I would rather use my vacation hours for time off from work.
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Old 08-26-2005, 02:19 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plenty Fox
My second thought is this. I competed for a number of years--not in pow-wow but in showing horses grand prix jumping. Like pow-wow it always went Sat/Sun, sometimes Fri/Sat/Sun. Like pow-wow we would sometimes have more than one 'go-round'. Regardless, when our 'contest' was over, the awards were given out then--tired riders and horses were not forced to hang around to the very end of the show just to see if they won. This did not detract from the festive atmosphere or comraderie; and horse show familes had quality time together, kids rarely missed school and I can't think of one family that lost loved ones traveling to shows in the many years I did this. Since I've been around pow-wows (seven years) I need two hands to count the casualties and victims.......
Thank you for listening and thank you Tootoosis1972 for having the courage to open this discussion.
ok..i agree with Plenty Fox... maybe they should give out the prizes on SUNDAY right after each of the categories ....(like they do specials)..i mean its nice to see everyone running up late at night in order... but this would make things quicker eh...
from youngest to golden age then adults...(if things are computerized they can calculate points faster eh) and maybe 4 giveaways per powwow...and a crowd is still gonna hang around..like the parents/drivers..etc... and then theres the drum groups

and this is not a traditional powwow...so its not breakin tradition eh?
just my 2 cents (canadian)

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Old 08-26-2005, 11:43 AM   #53
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To Each Their Own

Why Blame Someone Else
I knew my opinon was going to get negative feedback but I was just stating as like the rest of you how I feel. But to those who blame other people for your irrespondsibility should be ashamed!! You should never blame anyone for your actions! I have seen up close and personal the hard work that committees have to go through and the strain they push through to make it a grand pow wow for YOU! Sometimes things get behind but that only means that they are now working double time for YOU! My mother worked on a committee and with all the work she did before the pow wow I never seen her . She worked all hours of the night so things could try and be perfect for YOU. By the second day of the pow wow she had collapsed and was sent to the hospital. She had phnemonia and missed the remaining days of the pow wow. The doctor said that the phnemonia was brought on my stress and over going her boundries. So I guess blame could go both ways but she nor I nor anyone else blamed the people of the pow wow. When I went to see her in the hospital all she wanted to know was "Was it a grand pow wow"

When you point the finger at someone else there is always 3 more pointing right back at you
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Old 08-26-2005, 12:08 PM   #54
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My sister competes fancy shawl and I usually drive for her cause she doesn't have a dependable car or a valid license but if it's time to go - it's time to go. There have been a couple of times we left before winners were announced and have been told later she placed. Her cousin picked it up for her one time and another time the committee sent it to her in the mail cause her address was on the registration sheet. But even if she never received it she was honored as one of the best dancers there when her name and tribe was read and her, I and my lil boyz got home safe <<<--- That's what's important.

As a committee person, we have had dancers come to us and say "I have to get on the road. If I place can you send it to me?" And we've honored that request.
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Old 08-26-2005, 12:56 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adp80
Why Blame Someone Else
I knew my opinon was going to get negative feedback but I was just stating as like the rest of you how I feel. But to those who blame other people for your irrespondsibility should be ashamed!! You should never blame anyone for your actions! I have seen up close and personal the hard work that committees have to go through and the strain they push through to make it a grand pow wow for YOU! Sometimes things get behind but that only means that they are now working double time for YOU! My mother worked on a committee and with all the work she did before the pow wow I never seen her . She worked all hours of the night so things could try and be perfect for YOU. By the second day of the pow wow she had collapsed and was sent to the hospital. She had phnemonia and missed the remaining days of the pow wow. The doctor said that the phnemonia was brought on my stress and over going her boundries. So I guess blame could go both ways but she nor I nor anyone else blamed the people of the pow wow. When I went to see her in the hospital all she wanted to know was "Was it a grand pow wow"

When you point the finger at someone else there is always 3 more pointing right back at you
Honey, you are being awfully defensive and taking this way to personal. No one is placing blame or pointing fingers; we are discussing changes that could be beneficial to everyone--committee members included. Please take a step back, and a deep breath. No one is attacking your Mother.
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The Creator said, "A foreign race of white people will come, who will become your friends. You should treat them well."

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Old 08-26-2005, 01:55 PM   #56
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There are good points brought up: One thing I would like to add is this someone mentioned earlier that committee's are able to run late because they only live 5 mins away or something like that...One thing you have to consider is this: committee members also go through lack of sleep during the pow wow..maybe forgetting to eat and don't see their family for hours at a time because they are busy with the pow wow...and stay up late, with a couple of hours of sleep n going again...for days, as far as specials I think it depends on what area of the country you are in and what kind of pw it is ..most casino pow wows are commercial or like gon..they don't offer you a meal, hardly any specials..if there are specials there is a limit to them, you pay for mostly everything..room, adm fee, reg fee, etc..for smaller pws you will have specials..n sometimes those families come at the last min..you can plan a tentative agenda..n plan for specials n everything that is sposed to happen but then there are always those ones who will do specials at the last minute and you can't turn them away because it is their pow wow also...some dancers like pws that do offer specials..I don't really have the ans..but I also do like the early endings on sun evening..esp w/a long drive home and school and work on mondays..cuz either u can take leave on monday or friday but not both...unless your a tribal employee I guess..it sounds like it..lol..then of course you have to consider school too on monday n friday..which one do they miss? Some schools now you can only miss so much days before they drop you. But you always have to make sacrifices when you love to pow wow so those are things to consider..and hopefully things will work for the best for everybody...and have safe travels wherever you go..I know I said that too about pulling over n resting if I am tired but in reality I am still jus tryin to get HOME at all costs and I know that its unsafe but I did again this past weekend soooo...doing and sayin are two different things..lol
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Old 08-27-2005, 02:18 AM   #57
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I haven't read ALL the posts on this thread, so I don't know if this idea's been mentioned, but here it is anyway:

When I went to the Roseau River powwow last weekend, and they were doing the finals on Sunday, I thought that maybe the committee would announce winners as they finished up. Well, maybe not immediately, but say the finals started with junior girls cats, those results should be announced by the time junior boys are ready. That way, as you go, younger kids are done and the families can leave earlier if only kids or teens dance in the family. As for men's, women's, and golden age, I know it can interfere w/ jobs, so yeah, maybe all specials and memorials should take place the first and second days only (if it's a 3-day powwow). The Sunday I went, they were supposed to start junior and teens cats in the afernoon, and then have adult cats in the evening. But before any competing, they had two really, REALLY long specials/memorials which were nice, but left no room for competition because they dragged on so long. All the competing cats were then crammed into the last 5 hours of the evening...those poor kids!

Hope some committee folks from different powwows see these suggestions we offer here and can do some rearranging. I myself didn't mind the late night (although I'm not a dancer, so I wasn't too worn out), but that weekend was soooooo cold, it was unbelievable! Anyone would have thought it was Oct or Nov instead of August. We even saw our own breath on Sunday night, it was horrible! But seriously, I'd do it all over again just to see more dancing. They were all so fantastic! :D
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Old 08-29-2005, 02:30 AM   #58
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I agree....

This really is a good thread...
Its too bad that it has to come to injury before we seriously address the issue of powwows getting over too late, though hopefully now committes will start to listen.
But personally, I think as a group Indian Country would understand if there was 1 less special or intertribal in the intrest of getting the powwow over sooner.
And in the intrest of the committe- shorter powwow, less stress. Everybody wins! [:P]
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Old 08-30-2005, 03:22 AM   #59
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better late than never...
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Old 08-30-2005, 11:41 AM   #60
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I went to a pow-wow a few weeks back where they finished up the jr's and teens on Saturday night, announced those winners right after grand entry on Sunday, and since it was hotter than the flames in hell, the adult finals were given one song (except for men's traditional). We were outta there before 5pm and everyone was stoked.
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