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Old 08-11-2005, 03:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakeeya
You must not know her because she's a very nice and respectful young lady, someone that always has good words and a smile. She is a well deserved champion dancer and doesn't deserve to be slammed on here.

Anyway this isn't NDN sports.

and you are???? you can't even post your name in your profile.
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Old 08-12-2005, 02:54 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakeeya
You must not know her because she's a very nice and respectful young lady, someone that always has good words and a smile. She is a well deserved champion dancer and doesn't deserve to be slammed on here.

Anyway this isn't NDN sports.

NDN sports, good burn.
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Old 08-12-2005, 03:25 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janell
HULLO...I didn't slam anyone. I just said are my eyes not seeing what they should? I see her dance offbeat. I watch her. She's beautiful. Yes, she's nice, but are we judging for being nice or on-beat? I was told that ultimately the contest is between the dancer and the drum. If a dancer can't stay on beat - I guess the drum wins.

As for any other style of dancing that dances on the up beat rather than the down beat...well, educate us. Is fancy dancing one of those styles? Is this the trend of fancy shawl dancing? Is *name edited for a second time....* a trend setter?

sheesh. When I judge and have friends dancing I still judge fairly. It'd be nice to know your face and to know I don't have a chance when you are judging b/c you are judging based on your friendship rather than on dancing ability. People like you should not be judging.

I didn't see who you said it was but I think I know who you're talking about. If it is the same person I agree about the beat part. Every time I've seen her dance she goes off-beat at some point or another during the song. Don't get me wrong, she's a good dancer........when she stays on beat. But this is just my opinion on dancing and I wouldn't put her down on my ballot strictly because she can't stay on beat. I'm not putting anyone down but just using her as an example. Don't get me wrong!! For me to pick a dancer, they have to be on beat the entire song. That's important in what I look for. Otherwise, why have drums sing if the dancers are going to dance to another song? Ya hear me? I think how certain dancers place depend on the judges. Everyone has their favorite but there are judges who don't know what "on beat" is and therefore look at dancers who wouldn't otherwise be noticed by judges who know about the proper beat to dance to.
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Old 08-12-2005, 08:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janell
It'd be nice to know your face and to know I don't have a chance when you are judging b/c you are judging based on your friendship rather than on dancing ability. People like you should not be judging.

And this comment is based on what????? Where did I post that I only pick my friends for dancing??? Grow up and quit whining.
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Old 08-14-2005, 01:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakeeya
And this comment is based on what????? Where did I post that I only pick my friends for dancing??? Grow up and quit whining.

derrrrr....so off topic. we were discussing offbeat dancers and dancing offbeat. Don't post here if you don't understand the thread.
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Old 08-14-2005, 03:29 AM   #26
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Off Beat

At a powwow a couple weeks ago, there were several well-known fancy shawl dancers in attendance. The first night of the powwow, when the drum began for their competition dance, these dancers immediately jumped at a running pace trying to outdo each other. They were going so fast, we could see their spandex well above their butt area. Their shawls were flying at their shoulders. Two elders standing behind me said to each other that dancing has changed. It is no longer the beauty or style or beat of the dance but how fast and how high dancers can go. These comments made me look at the dancers more closely. Heck, they were dancing faster than the beat! Of course, they all placed 1, 2, 3, 4 etc! Judges seem to get dazzled by the speed and height. Never mind what makes the dance beautiful.
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Old 08-14-2005, 03:34 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moochwah
At a powwow a couple weeks ago, there were several well-known fancy shawl dancers in attendance. The first night of the powwow, when the drum began for their competition dance, these dancers immediately jumped at a running pace trying to outdo each other. They were going so fast, we could see their spandex well above their butt area. Their shawls were flying at their shoulders. Two elders standing behind me said to each other that dancing has changed. It is no longer the beauty or style or beat of the dance but how fast and how high dancers can go. These comments made me look at the dancers more closely. Heck, they were dancing faster than the beat! Of course, they all placed 1, 2, 3, 4 etc! Judges seem to get dazzled by the speed and height. Never mind what makes the dance beautiful.
That's a crying shame. That drum represents so much - it's a shame that for the sake of competetion the beat is ignored and judges are so ignorant that they'll judge based on popularity or anything else BUT DANCING IN TIME WITH THE DRUM.
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Old 08-15-2005, 11:33 AM   #28
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Old 08-15-2005, 12:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janell
Don't post here if you don't understand the thread.
I understand the topic, but what I was referring to was the comment you originally made about another dancer, and you using her name. That's why I posted in the first place.

Last edited by Kakeeya; 12-05-2005 at 06:12 PM..
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Old 08-15-2005, 04:23 PM   #30
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Sometimes when I judge, paying too much attention to one dancer to see if he/her gets off-beat is not a good thing. It is not fair to the other dancers who would also like my attention. Sometimes there are so many dancers that, perhaps, 10-15 seconds of "looking at" a particular dancer is all that one can get. Many times, when I don't get a fairly good look, I request another song and try to focus on those that stood out in the 1st or 2nd song to determine what place they deserve in "my eyes".

Focusing too long on one dancer is unfair.
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Old 08-15-2005, 06:09 PM   #31
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i get the jist of this thread and id like to add some drums arent up to par. they have off days and some days when theyre on the money..... kinda like the dancers.
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Old 08-16-2005, 02:49 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii
Sometimes when I judge, paying too much attention to one dancer to see if he/her gets off-beat is not a good thing. It is not fair to the other dancers who would also like my attention. Sometimes there are so many dancers that, perhaps, 10-15 seconds of "looking at" a particular dancer is all that one can get. Many times, when I don't get a fairly good look, I request another song and try to focus on those that stood out in the 1st or 2nd song to determine what place they deserve in "my eyes".

Focusing too long on one dancer is unfair.
That's true. Also I believe a judge has to move around to get a good look to see what is going on too. I hate it when they stand like statues. That's why when I judge I always move..... you can't really tell if you don't.

At first when they start the song it seems they like to bunch up and there is no way you can pick one out in the crowd, because like you say...... you only have a few seconds for each one.
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Old 08-16-2005, 02:57 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii
Sometimes when I judge, paying too much attention to one dancer to see if he/her gets off-beat is not a good thing. It is not fair to the other dancers who would also like my attention. Sometimes there are so many dancers that, perhaps, 10-15 seconds of "looking at" a particular dancer is all that one can get. Many times, when I don't get a fairly good look, I request another song and try to focus on those that stood out in the 1st or 2nd song to determine what place they deserve in "my eyes".

Focusing too long on one dancer is unfair.
***** Sounds like a bunch of excuses 2 me...No one said anything about watching one dancer the whole time...anyone who knows dancing could tell who is dancing on/off beat while looking at everyone. The ones who dance off beat and still win because of their friends do it thru the whole song!! But hey, its supposed to be about dancing for your family and everyone getting together so big deal :) but all this baloney ^^^ it made me laugh, like c"mon...everybody knows how judging goes...jus have fun everyone, and laugh when crazy judging happens *****
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Old 08-16-2005, 11:13 PM   #34
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i've been traveling all summer with my kids, and i noticed that there are quite a few dancers (mainly mens fancy) who dance all crazy like theres a whole nother beat in their head. yet they do win. I like the "old style" when they danced to the beat of the drum (which does represent mother earth) We do need to teach our young people to honor the arena, by disqualifying yourself when a part of your outfit falls off or you dance off beat, what ever it may be. also drum groups need to respect their drum by keeping their area clean. all in all, some dancers have got to be making it on name recognition, or we need to once again address that some pow-wows are just not fair,thats why i tell my kids not to depend on pow-wows to live and pay bills, its not fair out there
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by injunboy
i get the jist of this thread and id like to add some drums arent up to par. they have off days and some days when theyre on the money..... kinda like the dancers.
so true. Sometimes it's a challenge trying to keep up a drums changing beats - especially if they are rookies.
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:45 PM   #36
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...but the ability to dance to any drum (without complaining and shouting for another song) and still look good make a true champion.
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:45 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jones
...but the ability to dance to any drum (without complaining and shouting for another song) and still look good make a true champion.

Very true........


But it is tough when dancers have to dance to a drum that sings on the beat instead of with the beat. It's times like this that I don't mind seeing a third song. But, when dancers are yelling and screaming for one more even though they've had 2 good songs is too much. I like it when drums sing songs for them that have a trick ending. They sure don't yell for one more after that.....*LOL*
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Old 08-18-2005, 12:17 PM   #38
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True...haha very true []
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:09 PM   #39
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Old 08-18-2005, 05:35 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mato Winyan
That's true. Also I believe a judge has to move around to get a good look to see what is going on too. I hate it when they stand like statues. That's why when I judge I always move..... you can't really tell if you don't.

At first when they start the song it seems they like to bunch up and there is no way you can pick one out in the crowd, because like you say...... you only have a few seconds for each one.
You have to look and compare dancers too, so you aren't focusing on one dancer at a time. I do that whether I'm judging with a ballot or looking on from the sidelines. When the song stops, how can you tell which dancer stops on time or oversteps if you are looking at each dancer singularly. You have to focus on them for a few seconds - undivided, but you need to see the whole picture too. An offbeat dancers stands out because they are bobbing when everyone else is weaving.
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