[RedShield]

Ever since I came back to Ohio I have been bothered by something I've been seeing around here.
Whenever a Women's Traditional song is requested, they call for four men called "Point Guards," They are brought in and stationed at the four directions and are suppossedly there to "guard the women" This was really disturbing to me when I saw some of the men with their clubs that they use as dance sticks and everything else... my wife who came from a hardcore pow wow people in the Pacific Northwest was really uncomfortable about this, having armed men in the circle gave her the willies and she has not danced a single women's traditional when they do this stuff.
I grew up in Ohio and never saw this stuff, I never see it around any of the Columbus pow wows, I definately never saw this stuff when I was living in the Pacific Northwest... what I'm asking is...

Where the heck did this come from?????

Who's tradition is this? where did it come from, do you do it where you come from... or is this just an Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky and West Virginia thing?
I saw it once at a pow wow where Mother Earth Beat was singing before I left the state in 2001, but when I came back I seem to be seeing it more and more. This has bothered me for three years now and now it's seems to be evolving so that now I've begun seeing that when the men's traditional dance they bring in four women as point guards.
I know it can be a different world here sometimes, but if anyone can help me understand where this practice comes from... I would GREATLY appreciate it. If it has a legitimate reason and is a tradition of a tribe that I was not aware of then I would like know to help understand this better.

Paselo

[Kiwehnzii]

Thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

[Zorro]

oh I thought this was going to be a thread about basketball...

[Steffan Redhawk]

I actually thought this was a basketball thread too, thats why I didn't read it until I was bored today, since we all know the pistons are gonna win....


Dude, I've told you since we met that ohio is bass ackwards... Some of the powwows seem like someone read "The dummies guide to running a powwow (hobbiest style)" and others, well, they couldn't afford the book.... Been to like 3 good ohio powwows, out of like 20, and decided to just stop going... heres a great example:

Went to a powwow in dayton (you were there, I'm positive) and some guy dropped a small, like TINY eagle feather in the hallway (tiny, I mean like 3-4 inches... it was tinsy), and I respect the head vet, so I'll leave his name out, but he decides for someone to pick up the feather, bring it to the arena, and put it on the floor...

This ticked like 95% of the people off, so he has the feather picked up, and then placed on a box, which is placed on the floor....

Anyway, then they dance the feather up...

At this SAME powwow, a guy we both know had a giveaway, and gave me (lakota) a dance stick with an owl foot on it... He did correct the mistake almost immediatly, but... yeah... talk about freakin out...

Another ohio powwow:
1 Family was doing everything, head male and female, AD, head vet, jr dancers, umm, just about everything...

A friend and I decide we're going to go (edwin rodreguez).. we show up, and there's no drum, the powwow commitee asks if we have one... and of course, we do... 1 drum, southern style, with 2 singers... Theres only like 50 people at this powwow, and nobody knew how to sing, let alone sing southern...

So, they have us as host drum (I shoulda just pulled a tape outta the car)

The head vet didn't have an eagle staff, so he asks if he could borrow my drum staff (beaded cane with a few tailfeathers on it) Amused, but a little put off, I allow it.

Then they ask us to dance.... WTF... well, we dressed, and took turns dancing now and then.... (that did not work well)

Their family got 1500 for putting this on....

We didn't get paid, and our hotel room wasn't taken care of like they said it would be.

Powwows in ohio?

Sure there are.....

Columbus is an exception, and one of the few, maybe someone SHOULD write a book about putting on a powwow, it'll sell good in ohio.

[Wojapi4Me]

So, the dance arena is such a volatile place that you have to be "guarded" now to dance lest you be attacked and kidnapped? Dang

My question is who guards the shawl and jingle dancers? And, who guards us fancy dancers? And what about during intertribals? Who's in charge of guarding then? Wow...

[Privateer6]

I have never seen what you are describing before. Closest thing I've seen in at a few NC powwows where when men's traditional dance, some ladies traditional dancers stand up, and place their fans across their chests. When in Rome....

[RedShield]

LOL... yeah... a book would be good, we could put it next to the song books I've seen some of the people use here.

I keep threatening to put on a pow wow NW style, but I don't think people around here would know how to take it. Out where my wife is from they dance clockwise for round dances, honor songs, grand entry, and I think veteran's songs... everything else is counter-clockwise... that would REALLY mess with people here I have a feeling (which is why I haven't done it... yet!)

I know it sounds like a basketball thread... but that's what they call them here!

By the way steffan, you got a drum you sing with up there?

[RedShield]

Originally Posted by Singerdad

So, the dance arena is such a volatile place that you have to be "guarded" now to dance lest you be attacked and kidnapped? Dang

My question is who guards the shawl and jingle dancers? And, who guards us fancy dancers? And what about during intertribals? Who's in charge of guarding then? Wow...

My question exactly!!!

[suthernwaterbird]

duh, its top flight security of the WORLD singerdad, not jus Ohio, THA WORLD.
On another note, thanks for the warning guys, I now know I am never going to Ohio,
because I dont want the people to think I OWE them something for watching over my girlfriend while she dances. Who knows, the dancers might start charging to stand there.....

[Steffan Redhawk]

Originally Posted by RedShield

LOL... yeah... a book would be good, we could put it next to the song books I've seen some of the people use here.

I keep threatening to put on a pow wow NW style, but I don't think people around here would know how to take it. Out where my wife is from they dance clockwise for round dances, honor songs, grand entry, and I think veteran's songs... everything else is counter-clockwise... that would REALLY mess with people here I have a feeling (which is why I haven't done it... yet!)

I know it sounds like a basketball thread... but that's what they call them here!

By the way steffan, you got a drum you sing with up there?

No, still praying I run into the plainsmen and then run away with them...

why?

[Wojapi4Me]

Originally Posted by suthernwaterbird

duh, its top flight security of the WORLD singerdad, not jus Ohio, THA WORLD.
On another note, thanks for the warning guys, I now know I am never going to Ohio,
because I dont want the people to think I OWE them something for watching over my girlfriend while she dances. Who knows, the dancers might start charging to stand there.....

Yeah, no kidding huh? And we thought there was some funny stuff over at MTSU...guess it's all relative huh? Man, Ohio sounds weird! LOL

On a half-way serious note...just gotta ask...what exactly are they guarding against? Dog attack? Gator attack? Big Mac attack?

[suthernwaterbird]

Originally Posted by Singerdad

Yeah, no kidding huh? And we thought there was some funny stuff over at MTSU...guess it's all relative huh? Man, Ohio sounds weird! LOL

On a half-way serious note...just gotta ask...what exactly are they guarding against? Dog attack? Gator attack? Big Mac attack?

gahhhhh rugged boy, maybe their afraid sum1 is gonna steal their women. *** the Cominatches say it, rape tha horses steal the women gahh.


oh and steffan, plainsmen? sorry homie long gone. You'd prolly have Yellowhammer come before the plainsmen.

[Steffan Redhawk]

Originally Posted by suthernwaterbird

gahhhhh rugged boy, maybe their afraid sum1 is gonna steal their women. *** the Cominatches say it, rape tha horses steal the women gahh.


oh and steffan, plainsmen? sorry homie long gone. You'd prolly have Yellowhammer come before the plainsmen.

Let me have my dreams!

Best time on the trail was with the plainsmen, not a real long stint, but... long enough for me!

Now, lemme alone! lol

[lbgood]

...

[suthernwaterbird]

Originally Posted by Steffan Redhawk

Let me have my dreams!

Best time on the trail was with the plainsmen, not a real long stint, but... long enough for me!

Now, lemme alone! lol

u traveled with the plainsemen? rc? me too lol i started out with the plainsemen. sang with them until a couple years ago really. did u sing with the REAL CREWED UP plainsmen or the 5 guyz plainsmen?

[RedShield]

I've been trying to figure what they're guarding against for three years, when I saw it before I left for WA, I thought it was an isolated incident, then got back and it's all over!

To each their own, but I just want to know where it comes from.

And on another note... not all Ohio Pow Wows are bad... there are some fun ones I've been to, and some really good ones... here's a list of some of the better ones:
Columbus, OH (Memorial Day and Labor Day Pow Wows) The old Columbus Sobrieties were good (I'm trying to get one started down here in Portsmouth for New Years,) Kimbolton is small but good... three southern drums there this year... us, Bird Choppers from NC, and hopefully Thunder Nation, Lima ain't bad, and there are a few others that I've been too that are pretty good. There are also some good drums here too... Fearless Hawk, Maza Napin, Thunder Nation, Many Voices, Dakota Travelers, and Estayapi are all pretty good, and we are seeing a lot of White Hawk out of Chicago too these days... there are other good drums here too, but these drums are probably the best around here. It can get weird at times... but the pow wows like Columbus and Kimbolton keep me optimistic that there may still be hope... plus the more legit drums we can get around here singing legit pow wow music, the better they'll get too...

Paselo

[Steffan Redhawk]

Originally Posted by suthernwaterbird

u traveled with the plainsemen? rc? me too lol i started out with the plainsemen. sang with them until a couple years ago really. did u sing with the REAL CREWED UP plainsmen or the 5 guyz plainsmen?

I joined right after the other Rueben left, not sandoval, but the other one, we were tight for about 4 months, then sandoval left (didn't have much choice), then about 4 months later, I went up north (I had to come home) went back down a few months after that, stuck around a year or so, that was right after heck... I can't remember their names, left... so then it was a 5 man crew... Left again, came back b/c RC called me to do FIHA with them... Great show, one of the best we did together, and then returned home.. He's called me once since then, but I wasn't here...

Haven't heard from him since, been lookin for him...

U got some contact info? (pm it please) *last time I sang with them was FIHA 2003 I think*

[suthernwaterbird]

Originally Posted by Steffan Redhawk

I joined right after the other Rueben left, not sandoval, but the other one, we were tight for about 4 months, then sandoval left (didn't have much choice), then about 4 months later, I went up north (I had to come home) went back down a few months after that, stuck around a year or so, that was right after heck... I can't remember their names, left... so then it was a 5 man crew... Left again, came back b/c RC called me to do FIHA with them... Great show, one of the best we did together, and then returned home.. He's called me once since then, but I wasn't here...

Haven't heard from him since, been lookin for him...

U got some contact info? (pm it please) *last time I sang with them was FIHA 2003 I think*

you mean ruben coho? yea i seen rc at that chambers farm powwow. hes not doin much jus touring with diamnond.

[Steffan Redhawk]

Originally Posted by suthernwaterbird

you mean ruben coho? yea i seen rc at that chambers farm powwow. hes not doin much jus touring with diamnond.

Yeah, Coho, couldn't remember his last name... RC was at chambers farm? are you serious? hope he got paid well... who or what is diamnond? new drum?

[suthernwaterbird]

nah he didnt sing, just dropped in. lol u no. diamond is a guy that does shows and tours of native american shows and what not. u no same stuff different guy. some of the guys that used to sing wit the plainsmen are singin with me now like itsy. u get that pm?