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Old 10-24-2007, 12:39 AM   #1
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powwowing to get by..

I was watching this pretty cool show the other night about a couple doing a documentary about what it would be like to live on min. wage for a full month...scaping by n stuff...then it had me thinking about fellow skinz who do the same thing, and sometimes skinz, just like any other minority or people under the poverty line do, they used there assets to do what ever neccisary to make that money...ndn's vice...what else powwows.
now I jknow some people like that, some of them I call good freinds, and believe me when I tell you I aint knockin them, but I get mixed emotions when it comes to kids.
I know famillies who powwow every weekend and alot of them try their damnest to place so that they can get by. I've also seen kids getting pulled out of school and some dont go onto highschool because they powwow every weekend and some weekdays, but they place, and that pays for them to have food n clothes on their backs.
Again I aint knockin, and I really dont know where I'm going with this thread...but it just had me thinkin, I mean its kool that they win and that there really good at what there doing, but at what cost??? they win there money, but at the same time their destroying there education by not going to school, so its like a catch 22.
It also got me thinkin into all the other threads about people who get mad if they dont place or dont place 1st and people who do favors for people to place and what not, and in a way, I can kind of understand....some people dont place, some people dont get their bills paid. How many times have you seen a freind or freinds go to powwows with just enough to get there, sleep in their car, live off balogna sammichez all weekend and prey that they win or their screwed and probably selling a peice of their outfit or blankets to get home?
****s kinda sad but it happens...
anyways, gonna stop rambling on here...
post your thoughts
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:01 AM   #2
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I know people who have done this for the love of BINGO!!!! but not pulling their kids outta school about it, just ditching em at home all weekend with baloney sangwiches...and pawning belongings to pay bills, buy groceries, or have more money to dab....pretty sad, I think......
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:29 AM   #3
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Old 10-24-2007, 10:22 AM   #4
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I know plenty of people that live from powwow to powwow. It's true that money can be made from contesting and a few manage to get by on that. However, it's not steady income and it doesn't provide for retirement or much of a savings. My daughter is fortunate and has placed at a lot of powwows (way more than me) and this money has really helped us out when my income doesn't stretch far. If it's good prize money we split it three ways between my daughter, myself and her savings account. We consider it extra or supplemental money. There is no way that we could live off it though.
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Old 10-24-2007, 10:37 AM   #5
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I know a lot of people that do live off of pow-wow money and it's kinda sad, in a way, but hey...at least they're able to travel from pw to pw from what they make off of their winnings. But sometimes it's almost like they're taking a risk because they might not place at all and there goes their reimbursement of gas & hotel money.
aaaand, that's why I'm glad that I have a job *lol* Cause atleast I know that I have a dependable back up plan every other week cause there's times when I don't place. Yeah, I admit, I did a little complaining about not placing at Sycuan, but so did every dancer there that didn't place when they should've, and turns out that they did place afterall and got paid a week later after the pw. Due to some miscalculating addition w/in the points given. *lol*
But overall, if thatz what people choose is to just go from pw to pw just living off of their 1st place winnings, then that's their decision to do so. I think that's what I miss the most about not working when I was younger, able to travel!! *lol*
Ahhh good times!! =)
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Old 10-24-2007, 11:11 AM   #6
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What about parents that rely on their kids to place so that they can get gas money to the next pow-wow. Dang.
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Old 10-24-2007, 11:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItzRaeRae View Post
I know a lot of people that do live off of pow-wow money and it's kinda sad, in a way, but hey...at least they're able to travel from pw to pw from what they make off of their winnings. But sometimes it's almost like they're taking a risk because they might not place at all and there goes their reimbursement of gas & hotel money.
aaaand, that's why I'm glad that I have a job *lol* Cause atleast I know that I have a dependable back up plan every other week cause there's times when I don't place. Yeah, I admit, I did a little complaining about not placing at Sycuan, but so did every dancer there that didn't place when they should've, and turns out that they did place afterall and got paid a week later after the pw. Due to some miscalculating addition w/in the points given. *lol*
But overall, if thatz what people choose is to just go from pw to pw just living off of their 1st place winnings, then that's their decision to do so. I think that's what I miss the most about not working when I was younger, able to travel!! *lol*
Ahhh good times!! =)
I'm with RaeRae, I'll keep my day job since I would starve if I relied on my dance ability alone. LOL! Besides I want to work so I don't have to rely on anyone else to feed or cloth me. But I think you missed the point on the children impacted by parents that don't make going to school a priority. Keeping kids on the road to pow-wow as a "career" is an education deprivation that is simply unacceptable. I know a lot of top dancers, but I can't recall anyone of them being a consistent first place winner. You know how it is, you get tabulation dramas, different judges that may not like your style, etc. Pow-wow contests are NOT an income guarantee. I've boughten some pretty tough beadwork, blankets etc. from folks just trying to get gas $$ for the next powwow. The bottom line, once you decide to have kids, get a day job and keep your kids in school, be a responsible parent. Then you'll be able to dance for the enjoyment rather than as a must.
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:48 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ItzRaeRae View Post
I know a lot of people that do live off of pow-wow money and it's kinda sad, in a way, but hey...at least they're able to travel from pw to pw from what they make off of their winnings. But sometimes it's almost like they're taking a risk because they might not place at all and there goes their reimbursement of gas & hotel money.
aaaand, that's why I'm glad that I have a job *lol* Cause atleast I know that I have a dependable back up plan every other week cause there's times when I don't place. Yeah, I admit, I did a little complaining about not placing at Sycuan, but so did every dancer there that didn't place when they should've, and turns out that they did place afterall and got paid a week later after the pw. Due to some miscalculating addition w/in the points given. *lol*
But overall, if thatz what people choose is to just go from pw to pw just living off of their 1st place winnings, then that's their decision to do so. I think that's what I miss the most about not working when I was younger, able to travel!! *lol*
Ahhh good times!! =)
It makes you wonder. Just how many singers and dancers actually have a job. I think its around 90% that don't. How many kids are in school with a good attendance. There are afew traditional dancers that have their kids dance year around. As long as they win, this will continue. When they start losing, it changes. These people know who they are. It's pretty hard to pity this type when they (adults) start losing and don't have a job and are homeless. It's eminent. Most big pow wows are like the gathering of the unemployed. Dancing for dollars
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Old 10-24-2007, 03:31 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Dakota Sandz View Post
How many times have you seen a freind or freinds go to powwows with just enough to get there, sleep in their car, live off balogna sammichez all weekend and prey that they win or their screwed and probably selling a peice of their outfit or blankets to get home?
****s kinda sad but it happens...
anyways, gonna stop rambling on here...
post your thoughts
Dang, you've seen people who eat bologna sandwiches & sleep in their cars during a pw weekend?!? Daaaamn, thatz straight hard core pw'er there!! *lol*
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Old 10-24-2007, 03:49 PM   #10
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I think there needs to be a categories for dancers who have a full time job. Just show your pay stub with 40 hours and you can register. Dance contest on Saturday and then have the winners announced early enough so you can get on the road, to be able to get plenty of rest for work on monday.

Nothing like pulling in, just in time to head straight to work..... ugh....

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Old 10-24-2007, 05:03 PM   #11
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It makes you wonder. Just how many singers and dancers actually have a job. I think its around 90% that don't. How many kids are in school with a good attendance. There are afew traditional dancers that have their kids dance year around. As long as they win, this will continue. When they start losing, it changes. These people know who they are. It's pretty hard to pity this type when they (adults) start losing and don't have a job and are homeless. It's eminent. Most big pow wows are like the gathering of the unemployed. Dancing for dollars

I have to agree most pow wows are a gathering of the UNEMPLOYED haha. the only ones that actually have the time to get there on time and stay until the bitter end .. sometimes until the wee hours of the morning. i hate having a pow wow hangover on monday morning. I personally think the seven o'clock grand entry should be outlawed haha

and the other major reason why the majority of native ppl go to school to become teachers is because the get their summers off and all major holidays off too LOL. and you can get your pay cheques, spread over the year (12 months) instead of over 10 months (actual school days open). a steady pay cheque thru the summer months too.

then it causes a rift between some singers in some groups. the employed singers with vehicles vs the unemployed singers without vehicles. or the employed singers' ability to actually get time off work to get to the pow wow. or the unemployed singers griping (often behind the scenes) over the "cut" that the employed singers get, they sometimes think it should be less since they do have job and they dont, so they feel they should be getting a bigger cut.

i do hate having my children miss school, sometimes it can be helped, sometimes it cant be. i always phone ahead and make sure they get their homework for the friday and monday so they wont get behind. it is a choice that parents make. do they want their child to have all the choices in the world or none at all cuz they chose not to attend school reguarly? a doctor or a pow wow bum ... you choose LOL
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Old 10-24-2007, 06:11 PM   #12
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When I was in high school, i missed a lot of fridays and Mondays for pow-wows but I went on to Graduate college. So :P hahha

I think if you're going to take your kids out for pow-wows then you might try and do homeschooling cuz then your kids can go to pow-wows and go to school around their pow-wow schedule. Most kids that homeschool are wayyyy smarter than us public school kids.

ETA... but I do think pow-wowing is like gambling in the sense that its not guaranteed money and you shouldn't risk your family's food/shelter/clothing at the expense of getting your pow-wow fix.
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Old 10-24-2007, 06:36 PM   #13
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Education is being put off by other things, such as percapitas too. Why go to school to get a good ed-u-ma-cation in order to fit into a competitive career oriented society when your getting thousand dollar percaps a year, twice a year, every month, **** some get them every week. In many ways it is a catch 22...in alot of areas other than pws for natives. Do you think this could by the US gov't way of attempting to still yet deplete a once prosperous self governed boundary-less people. What r we to do? We got to be twice as smart and learn the traditions and education to make it through the next centuries. Sort of off the topic there. But there has to be a balance...don't make Friday GE mandatory and outlaw the Sunday evening grand entries, I guess.?!
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Old 10-24-2007, 06:49 PM   #14
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I have to agree most pow wows are a gathering of the UNEMPLOYED haha. the only ones that actually have the time to get there on time and stay until the bitter end .. sometimes until the wee hours of the morning. i hate having a pow wow hangover on monday morning. I personally think the seven o'clock grand entry should be outlawed haha

and the other major reason why the majority of native ppl go to school to become teachers is because the get their summers off and all major holidays off too LOL. and you can get your pay cheques, spread over the year (12 months) instead of over 10 months (actual school days open). a steady pay cheque thru the summer months too.

then it causes a rift between some singers in some groups. the employed singers with vehicles vs the unemployed singers without vehicles. or the employed singers' ability to actually get time off work to get to the pow wow. or the unemployed singers griping (often behind the scenes) over the "cut" that the employed singers get, they sometimes think it should be less since they do have job and they dont, so they feel they should be getting a bigger cut.

i do hate having my children miss school, sometimes it can be helped, sometimes it cant be. i always phone ahead and make sure they get their homework for the friday and monday so they wont get behind. it is a choice that parents make. do they want their child to have all the choices in the world or none at all cuz they chose not to attend school reguarly? a doctor or a pow wow bum ... you choose LOL

I'm with you on the singers part..i hear ya! lol its gets on my nerves time to time when some one doesnt have a way around and relies on Jr to take them there, or to give them money..anything along those lines..and then when i stand up and say something..like it's not our job to take care of them..thn I'm looked at or called a botch behind my back, or this and that. It really does get tiring after a while.

As for the powwowing and work thang, I am way to damn high maintenance to live off of nothing or welfare alone. lol. Jr and i both go to school, and he works 2 jobs and i work one. I couldnt imagine just relying off my poor dance skills and jr's singing to make A FREAKIN LIVING, that is to risky. But i do know families that do it, and its sad. They have abso. nothing to show for themselves, and neither do there children. I mean why would one want to put their fmaily thru that?

and chazzif..the summers off is exactly why jr and i are becoming teachers. lol It is the perfect profession. lol
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:39 PM   #15
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Ahhhhhhh the ultimate question. For me, during the school year we try to keep the powwows local or within a 4 hour drive. Since school getsout about 3pm, most of the time we can make it to GE. The only time my son will get out of school is if he's head boy somewhere far but I always make sure I get his homework ahead of time. We'll also travel on the 3-4 day weekends so he won't miss school. I guess we're kinda lucky, most of the powwows we attend are close and the ones we really travel too are in the summer, so we can be gone weeks at a time. Right now I am on disability so my schedule is more flexible, however, when I am feeling really sick, we end up staying home. But now my lil one only misses school, very little, and he's doing pretty good in school. And it is true, there are some kids who do better at being homeschooled than being in the public school system. I am considering my lil one to be homeschooled during high school years and a native charter school for his middle school years. But we'll see, he's still only in 3rd grade....LOL.

In the past, I used to be hard core powwower.... Now, I spend what I can afford to lose. If I am scrapping, usually I will stay home, bead, sell jewelry or something, then hit the next powwow. But really its all depends on how I feel now, sometimes my disease really kicks my butt. I use to push it, even being sick, but I had to become more careful after having to go to the ER one day.....*S*.

Oh and with my job, hee hee, I get paid to go on the powwow trail too. It's a matter of coordinating a powwow weekend with client meetings. :D

Seeeeeeee ya on the trail......
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:26 PM   #16
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It's a sad scenerio....

If your grandfather, dad and family are in the banking business, chances are you will also be a banker. or have a good chance of making it as one.

If your family makes you contest at powwows to make ends meet and you miss a lot of school as a result....



Chances are this cycle will be repeated into another generation.


Sad but true.

Even worse, I have seen parents get mad at their children for not placing.
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Last edited by WhoMe; 10-24-2007 at 09:28 PM..
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe View Post
It's a sad scenerio....

If your grandfather, dad and family are in the banking business, chances are you will also be a banker. or have a good chance of making it as one.

If your family makes you contest at powwows to make ends meet and you miss a lot of school as a result....



Chances are this cycle will be repeated into another generation.


Sad but true.

Even worse, I have seen parents get mad at their children for not placing.
yup I seen it too..when I was in Jr's...I happened to place as well as one of my buddies, but my other freind didnt make the cut and his mom cuffed him upside the head and was making all kinds of excuses to get mad like "why didnt you dance harder, what the hell are you doing out there? who the hell told you to dance like that, you missed point check you lil shyt.." stuff like that, and I still see it time to time, and some parents even make fun of their kid that dont place, while there other one does. Thats just wrong. I seen that once and I went up the lil guy and gave him a couple of bucks and told him that he was a good dancer, and told his dad I would kick his azz if I ever heard him say that to his kid again. Poor kid just had his head down, suckin back the tears. the kid was only 7 years old.
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Old 10-24-2007, 10:25 PM   #18
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So how do you think this affects judging? Do you think the judges are influenced at all if they know that so-and-so powwows for a living and they need to place or their family won't eat this week?

It almost opens up another whole set of questions. Like, do there need to be new categories for powwow contests, say a pro division and an amateur division? This is the norm in many sports (closest thing I can think of), like running, cycling, golf, auto racing. Can't imagine my husband's brother-in-law racing his Mustang up against Jeff Gordon, for example. Some of us who dance for the enjoyment of it may not place often, if at all, if we are constantly contesting against those for whom it has become their source of employment.

Winning some cash would be nice, but I've tried to teach my girls just to dance their best and most importantly enjoy themselves. I can't see how reaming out a kid cuz they didn't place is going to be of benefit to anyone. It just hurts the child. And while I can see pulling a kid out of school a couple of times during the year to travel to a powwow, I coudn't justify doing it habitually. Kids only get to be young once, and the benefits of a good education will pay off greater in the long run, even to the helping of the family and their people, than an extra $50 or $100 in powwow winnings.
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Old 10-24-2007, 11:08 PM   #19
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growing up with pow-wows ive seen this. Travel dance hard hope to place have everything packed up get yer money and head to the next dance. As a kid the thought of it was exciting but my mama would say lets not loose sight of why we are here ,its not about the money or how fancy your outfit is. NOw she was very proud of me when I would place ,she was my bigist fan but she always had alil life lesson for me in a kind and gentle way. IM in no way judging those who choose to do this but just shareing .
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Old 10-24-2007, 11:17 PM   #20
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Oh and my mom and dad never forced me to dance or was mad if I diddnt place. They were there for me should I want to but never made me. I remember my first winnings I went around and shared it , a lil to the drum, a few elders, some other folks. A gramma came up to me and said I was kind , but I need'd to keep some for myself. So from then on I would keep a little and buy material for a new dress or some beads. I dont make my sons dance , Im there for them to help them and am very pleased to see my lil ones out there. Ive seen the faces of the kids who are dancing cause they want to and teh one ones who dont and it makes me sad. BUt as I said before not knocking it ,I just know its not the route I wanna go.
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