Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree22Likes

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Pow Wow Talk Wearing your otter fur braid wraps and beadwork to a powwow when your not dancing! Wearing your otter fur braid wraps and beadwork to a powwow when your not dancing!

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-16-2013, 03:08 AM   #1
Singer, Old Style Jingler
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
CanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2013
Location: San Fernando Valley, California
Posts: 20
Credits: 636.81
Savings: 0.00
Question Wearing your otter fur braid wraps and beadwork to a powwow when your not dancing!

So I know I'm ganna touch on a "complicated" subject as some have said to me and I don't know why. But what do you guys think when the ladies wear their otter wraps and there beadwork to powwows when there not dancing?
CanteWas'teWin49 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-16-2013, 03:14 AM   #2
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,422
Credits: 15,450.06
Savings: 1.00
It's their stuff, what's the issue?

For example, I see eagle feathers on hats outside of the arena all the time...
windanncer likes this.
Zeke is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-16-2013, 03:20 AM   #3
Singer, Old Style Jingler
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
CanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond reputeCanteWas'teWin49 has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2013
Location: San Fernando Valley, California
Posts: 20
Credits: 636.81
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
It's their stuff, what's the issue?

For example, I see eagle feathers on hats outside of the arena all the time...
Exactly! Not just that but your showing you native pride & wearing them in a good way.
I once heard this lady say why would they do that, who are they trying to impress!
windanncer likes this.
CanteWas'teWin49 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-16-2013, 03:33 AM   #4
dances with fat chicks
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
milehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond repute
milehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2012
Location: DENVER
Posts: 601
Credits: 12,907.96
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanteWas'teWin49 View Post
Exactly! Not just that but your showing you native pride & wearing them in a good way.
I once heard this lady say why would they do that, who are they trying to impress!
zeke is right, look at any MC or arena director, all have an eagle feather in their cowboy hat.......my grandpa used to do that too......i wouldnt dare tell them they werent wearing it in a good way
windanncer likes this.
milehighsalute is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-16-2013, 04:39 AM   #5
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Doll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 47
Credits: 2,252.63
Savings: 0.00
I don't see a problem. It's not like they're wearing them while living it up at a bar. They're at a powwow.
windanncer likes this.
Doll is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-16-2013, 09:50 AM   #6
Happily Married ! LOL
 
wardancer's Avatar
 
Items DevilPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: S.E.Kansas (again) LOL
Posts: 13,114
Credits: 12,364.22
Savings: 1.00
Heck yeah ! Wounded Bear wears his breach cloth everywhere !!!
__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !



Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !



I'm not as good as I once was ,
but I'm as good once as I ever was !






There's a chance you might not like me , but there's a bigger chance I won't care
wardancer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-16-2013, 10:15 AM   #7
The voices tell me...
 
Joe's Dad's Avatar
 
Items CatCatCatCat
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 14,998
Credits: 58,496.09
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanteWas'teWin49 View Post
So I know I'm ganna touch on a "complicated" subject as some have said to me and I don't know why. But what do you guys think when the ladies wear their otter wraps and there beadwork to powwows when there not dancing?
That darn Joe's Dad. Why doesn't he just conform? hahaa

So...

the heck with what everyone else thinks, what is YOUR reason to wear them? Otter skins are pretty long. Are yours?

When I've seen most women wearing any hair adornments, they usually have their hair braided. (French braids are HOT...but that's another topic. lol) Do you wear your hair braided when not competing? Do you compete?

Guys...would you wear your roach to a powwow if you weren't competing? Why not your beaded cuffs?

So yeah, you can wear anything you want from your outfit to a powwow if you're not competing. It's your stuff. Most people (the general public) won't have the faintest clue what you have on, but...those that are dancing and/or competing will probably look at you and give a slight giggle or smirk as you walk by. Be prepared for slight innuendos from some. It's all good if it doesn't bother you.

Have you ever been in a group of NDN girls who see someone wearing something that doesn't look exactly right at a powwow (the fringed top and tons of torquoise comes to mind)? What did you all do as she walked by?

"Cha! I wanna wear those. Not even."

"Those would looks good on me. As if!"

Go ahead and admit it. You've done these things. LOL


This came out of my fingers in a good way. Hope it reaches your eyes the same way. Us old people...we just think different. hahaaaa
Eagle Plumes and windanncer like this.
__________________


Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

Mr. Rossie Freeman

Last edited by Joe's Dad; 07-16-2013 at 10:21 AM..
Joe's Dad is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-16-2013, 10:57 AM   #8
PauWau Coordinator
 
WhoMe's Avatar
 
Items Devil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties
Posts: 6,964
Credits: 6,747.50
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanteWas'teWin49 View Post
So I know I'm ganna touch on a "complicated" subject as some have said to me and I don't know why. But what do you guys think when the ladies wear their otter wraps and there beadwork to powwows when there not dancing?

To me this is showing off. The same with guys in their street clothes and full war paint walking around.

I get it if they are on dinner break but if they aren't dancing to begin with, and have tourists taking pictures with them... it's showing off.
__________________
"There are many who exploit us to learn from us. At the end they end up writing a book as being the Indian expert." ~ Kenny Frost (2013)
WhoMe is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-16-2013, 11:22 AM   #9
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Doll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 47
Credits: 2,252.63
Savings: 0.00
Yeah, I was going to mention that you DO run the risk of looking a bit wannabe-ish ;) So it is a.. fashion risk I don't think there is anything WRONG with it, though.
windanncer likes this.
Doll is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2013, 03:04 PM   #10
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
valljez is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4
Credits: 115.00
Savings: 0.00
It's a shame that we feel the need to judge each other, especially for silly things. Why would it even be an issue if we wear our traditional clothing at any gathering?
As it is, most of us wear "street clothes" to powwows and other events and change there into traditional clothing. Why do we feel the need to do that?
Other cultures wear thier traditional clothing every day..we think its strange and worthy of comment if one of our own does it at a powwow if they arent dancing?
I am proud of my heritage and would wear my hide dresses every day if it wasnt for the fact that we seem to feel the need to hide what should be a normal part of our lives!
Do to physical issues I am unable to dance as much as my heart and spirit wish to..am I now to feel shame for wearing traditional dress at gatherings?
It amazes me at just how much damage has really been done to us..now , instead of them tearing us apart , we do it to each other...it really is heartbreaking...
windanncer and sweetpeabo1 like this.
valljez is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2013, 06:05 PM   #11
Frybread glutton
 
Fang's Avatar
 
Items Treasure Chest
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Fang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond repute
Fang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 462
Credits: 10,058.25
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by valljez View Post
It's a shame that we feel the need to judge each other, especially for silly things. Why would it even be an issue if we wear our traditional clothing at any gathering?
As it is, most of us wear "street clothes" to powwows and other events and change there into traditional clothing. Why do we feel the need to do that?
Other cultures wear thier traditional clothing every day..we think its strange and worthy of comment if one of our own does it at a powwow if they arent dancing?
I am proud of my heritage and would wear my hide dresses every day if it wasnt for the fact that we seem to feel the need to hide what should be a normal part of our lives!
Do to physical issues I am unable to dance as much as my heart and spirit wish to..am I now to feel shame for wearing traditional dress at gatherings?
It amazes me at just how much damage has really been done to us..now , instead of them tearing us apart , we do it to each other...it really is heartbreaking...
That is an interesting point. Some other cultures do tend to wear a lot of their traditional items, so why don't we? Many of us do wear our beadwork that we have spent long hours (sometimes months and years) working on. I knew a few women who would wear their mocs around the office and wore their beadwork with pride. They wouldn't go to work in full buckskin and stand out like a sore thumb, but they would represent their culture and tribe in their beadwork, jewelry, etc. in a semi-subtle way.

On the other hand if you wear PART of your regalia to a powwow, it sure does look funny. If I wore my yoke with street clothes, I'd expect a few chuckles. Or if I wore my plumes and nothing else. Or if a man was walking around in his bustle with jeans and a tshirt. It's almost the cultural equivalent of getting half-dressed in the morning and then going to work/school/event. It seems a bit disrespectful and takes away from the meaning of the piece when not worn the way it was meant to be.

As to the original question... if you worked long and hard on your beadwork, rock it. Like you Valljez, there are many who may be unable to dance due to health problems. There was a very nice woman I met a few months ago at a powwow who had two bad knees. She was an older woman, used to dance all the time, and still makes all of her family's regalia. So, she participated in grand entry and did what she could, then sat back down and watched from her chair with her grandchildren. There are similar situations for other men and women as well. If they're representing their tribe in an honorable way, then I don't see a problem.

On the other hand, I wouldn't wear my fancy shawl regalia unless I was dancing. It would just seem seem unnecessary and showoffy. It would be like saying "I'm young, healthy, all dolled, but I don't want to dance with you. Look at me but I'm not going to participate."
WhoMe and windanncer like this.
Fang is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2013, 07:16 PM   #12
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,422
Credits: 15,450.06
Savings: 1.00
Rhetorical: if I wear cargo shorts and my beaded mocs to work am I showing off?

Because I do it a lot.
windanncer likes this.
Zeke is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2013, 08:29 PM   #13
sentient being
 
skybird5's Avatar
 
Items Treasure Chest
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
skybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond reputeskybird5 has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 374
Credits: 663.88
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanteWas'teWin49 View Post
So I know I'm ganna touch on a "complicated" subject as some have said to me and I don't know why. But what do you guys think when the ladies wear their otter wraps and there beadwork to powwows when there not dancing?
Ok, SO I realize that many people have not, do not and will not ever have the teachings of the Elders or older people who came before us and set standards for the kinds of things we do today...
That being said, Dance items are MADE for dancing (participating)at a powwow or a ceremony or what have you, therefore...if you are NOT participating, you would NOT wear just a part of the outfit. Such as otter wraps and beaded hair ties.

The thing is, its NOT my opinion or a subjective thing, as your post seems to state..it isn't a complicated subject because had you been taught or had traditional teachings, there wouldn't be a question at all, you just wouldn't do it.

Now, if a person happens to be lucky enough to have otter wraps and beadwork, well it seems that a person could also make "hair ties" or ornamental wraps to be worn for decorative purposes. I have several sets of beadwork and hair barrettes that I would only wear in my hair or for decoration if I were going to an event and not participating. I wouldn't wear those items to powwow dance.
WhoMe and windanncer like this.
skybird5 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2013, 12:15 AM   #14
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
valljez is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4
Credits: 115.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang View Post
That is an interesting point. Some other cultures do tend to wear a lot of their traditional items, so why don't we? Many of us do wear our beadwork that we have spent long hours (sometimes months and years) working on. I knew a few women who would wear their mocs around the office and wore their beadwork with pride. They wouldn't go to work in full buckskin and stand out like a sore thumb, but they would represent their culture and tribe in their beadwork, jewelry, etc. in a semi-subtle way.

On the other hand if you wear PART of your regalia to a powwow, it sure does look funny. If I wore my yoke with street clothes, I'd expect a few chuckles. Or if I wore my plumes and nothing else. Or if a man was walking around in his bustle with jeans and a tshirt. It's almost the cultural equivalent of getting half-dressed in the morning and then going to work/school/event. It seems a bit disrespectful and takes away from the meaning of the piece when not worn the way it was meant to be.

As to the original question... if you worked long and hard on your beadwork, rock it. Like you Valljez, there are many who may be unable to dance due to health problems. There was a very nice woman I met a few months ago at a powwow who had two bad knees. She was an older woman, used to dance all the time, and still makes all of her family's regalia. So, she participated in grand entry and did what she could, then sat back down and watched from her chair with her grandchildren. There are similar situations for other men and women as well. If they're representing their tribe in an honorable way, then I don't see a problem.

On the other hand, I wouldn't wear my fancy shawl regalia unless I was dancing. It would just seem seem unnecessary and showoffy. It would be like saying "I'm young, healthy, all dolled, but I don't want to dance with you. Look at me but I'm not going to participate."
I am inclined to agree with you. I wouldnt wear my shawl unless I was representing my womens circle.
My buckskins are another story. They are home..comfort..I dont specifically connect them with dancing.
I also agree that some things just don't look right in combination with "street" clothes..but it can be done to some degree. I just go with what feels right.
I am sure there are those who are showing off, then there are those who dont really give it alot of thought, it's just who they are..
In the end, all that really matters is that we dont judge each other. We get enough of that from everyone else!
valljez is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2013, 01:21 AM   #15
The voices tell me...
 
Joe's Dad's Avatar
 
Items CatCatCatCat
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 14,998
Credits: 58,496.09
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by valljez View Post
I am inclined to agree with you. I wouldnt wear my shawl unless I was representing my womens circle.
My buckskins are another story. They are home..comfort..I dont specifically connect them with dancing.
I also agree that some things just don't look right in combination with "street" clothes..but it can be done to some degree. I just go with what feels right.
I am sure there are those who are showing off, then there are those who dont really give it alot of thought, it's just who they are..
In the end, all that really matters is that we dont judge each other. We get enough of that from everyone else!
I hope I'm not intruding, grandmother.

What is a woman's circle?
__________________


Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

Mr. Rossie Freeman
Joe's Dad is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2013, 03:15 AM   #16
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,422
Credits: 15,450.06
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybird5 View Post
Ok, SO I realize that many people have not, do not and will not ever have the teachings of the Elders or older people who came before us and set standards for the kinds of things we do today...
That being said, Dance items are MADE for dancing (participating)at a powwow or a ceremony or what have you, therefore...if you are NOT participating, you would NOT wear just a part of the outfit. Such as otter wraps and beaded hair ties.
Respectfully, that's crap.

And it has nothing to do with being traditional.

Dance items are made or given to you to do with as you please. If it were not so, it would not matter to whom they were given as strict codes of contact would determine their use and there would be no point in making any judgments about to whom they should be given to or made for.

At best, you can argue that the reason they were given such things is because they should know this amorphous code you allude to.

But that is a weak argument as well considering the contradictory nature of codes found within the arena, let alone outside. (i.e., do I or do I not remove my roach during a Veteran's Song?)

Sum? You're standing on quicksand within the area, don't try to extend that same elitist garbage outside of it.

Wearing or using something is not insulting it.
Zeke is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2013, 07:57 AM   #17
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Doll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond reputeDoll has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 47
Credits: 2,252.63
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Respectfully, that's crap.

And it has nothing to do with being traditional.

Dance items are made or given to you to do with as you please. If it were not so, it would not matter to whom they were given as strict codes of contact would determine their use and there would be no point in making any judgments about to whom they should be given to or made for.

At best, you can argue that the reason they were given such things is because they should know this amorphous code you allude to.

But that is a weak argument as well considering the contradictory nature of codes found within the arena, let alone outside. (i.e., do I or do I not remove my roach during a Veteran's Song?)

Sum? You're standing on quicksand within the area, don't try to extend that same elitist garbage outside of it.

Wearing or using something is not insulting it.
Yeah, I have to agree. I was certainly raised with plenty of elders teachings and I was never taught never to wear any pieces of your regalia if you're not dancing. In fact many of the elders I grew up around wore beadwork, eagle feathers, parts of their old regalia even though they weren't capable of dancing anymore. Plus there are some things that are and have always been articles that are worn in regalia and general clothing - ribbon shirts, earrings, chokers and bracelets, moccasins, beaded hair accessories, the list goes on.

Besides, even if someone was taught not to do that, it doesn't mean it's wrong across the board in all of america. There is a whole lot of conflicting information out there and there is a reason for it - because 100+ years ago there was very little comparing of notes and now we're chatting it up all over the place. There weren't airplanes or cars to travel from coast to coast or telephones. We all came from different areas and have different traditions and rules and just because someone wasn't taught something you were, doesn't mean they are wrong. They are following the rules that were taught in their area.

In addition, there is a whole pile of garbage that just gets made up because someone wants to sound superior and smart, sometimes BY elders. Just taking jingle dresses for example - when I hear people going on about how it's supposed to have 365 cones on it, they must be sewn on in straight lines only, how you need a fan (some even say it HAS to be an eagle fan) to raise during honour beats, how leggings are a MUST for modesty, you should stand all day rather than lift your dress to sit, children shouldn't wear a jingle dress until they're older and mature, etc... it's exhausting because all that stuff is pulled out of no-where and definitely not the way I was taught (and I was taught by the elders of northern ontario which is where the dress originated from). I had never heard a word of any of that until I started attending pow wows south of the border. It's not the way things are done back home at all. Even then though, while I would correct someone if they tried to chastise ME about one of those things, I'm not going to go around schooling everyone that they SHOULDN'T have 365 cones, that they SHOULDN'T carry a fan (I actually have one!) etc - some things become a new way and I think that's ok as long as they don't try to hold everyone to a non-original standard.

The native community as a whole across North America is that old cliche - it's not a melting pot, it's a mosaic. We should all follow the traditions that we were taught (and seek out teachings about certain things from the right people - Just because someone born and raised in Texas is an elder, doesn't mean they would have the right information about the jingle dress for example) live our lives as we were taught and continue to learn. Many of the essentials are the same and some things DO need to be corrected when it's a matter of someone outright abusing something sacred and originated with YOUR people. But there is so much that is different and we can't judge each other based on those subtle differences or we'll spend our whole lives walking on eggshells because there are endless numbers of conflicting rules!
Fang likes this.
Doll is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2013, 10:08 AM   #18
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,422
Credits: 15,450.06
Savings: 1.00
Excellent post.
Zeke is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2013, 11:50 AM   #19
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
valljez is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4
Credits: 115.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doll View Post
Yeah, I have to agree. I was certainly raised with plenty of elders teachings and I was never taught never to wear any pieces of your regalia if you're not dancing. In fact many of the elders I grew up around wore beadwork, eagle feathers, parts of their old regalia even though they weren't capable of dancing anymore. Plus there are some things that are and have always been articles that are worn in regalia and general clothing - ribbon shirts, earrings, chokers and bracelets, moccasins, beaded hair accessories, the list goes on.

Besides, even if someone was taught not to do that, it doesn't mean it's wrong across the board in all of america. There is a whole lot of conflicting information out there and there is a reason for it - because 100+ years ago there was very little comparing of notes and now we're chatting it up all over the place. There weren't airplanes or cars to travel from coast to coast or telephones. We all came from different areas and have different traditions and rules and just because someone wasn't taught something you were, doesn't mean they are wrong. They are following the rules that were taught in their area.

In addition, there is a whole pile of garbage that just gets made up because someone wants to sound superior and smart, sometimes BY elders. Just taking jingle dresses for example - when I hear people going on about how it's supposed to have 365 cones on it, they must be sewn on in straight lines only, how you need a fan (some even say it HAS to be an eagle fan) to raise during honour beats, how leggings are a MUST for modesty, you should stand all day rather than lift your dress to sit, children shouldn't wear a jingle dress until they're older and mature, etc... it's exhausting because all that stuff is pulled out of no-where and definitely not the way I was taught (and I was taught by the elders of northern ontario which is where the dress originated from). I had never heard a word of any of that until I started attending pow wows south of the border. It's not the way things are done back home at all. Even then though, while I would correct someone if they tried to chastise ME about one of those things, I'm not going to go around schooling everyone that they SHOULDN'T have 365 cones, that they SHOULDN'T carry a fan (I actually have one!) etc - some things become a new way and I think that's ok as long as they don't try to hold everyone to a non-original standard.

The native community as a whole across North America is that old cliche - it's not a melting pot, it's a mosaic. We should all follow the traditions that we were taught (and seek out teachings about certain things from the right people - Just because someone born and raised in Texas is an elder, doesn't mean they would have the right information about the jingle dress for example) live our lives as we were taught and continue to learn. Many of the essentials are the same and some things DO need to be corrected when it's a matter of someone outright abusing something sacred and originated with YOUR people. But there is so much that is different and we can't judge each other based on those subtle differences or we'll spend our whole lives walking on eggshells because there are endless numbers of conflicting rules!
True, every Nation has it's own teachings and they also vary within those Nations. We need to understand and be respectful of that.
A little off topic , but for the person who asked what a "Women's Circle" is...they vary in purpose. In my circle, we raised money to help members of our community at Christmas. We learned a variety of traditional teachings (since we were not all of the same Nation) ..we did ceremony together , we supported each other, we laughed and cried together. There are social circles, healing circles, teaching circles and I imagine, there are other kinds as well.
There are also men's circles, at least where I have been living..near Six Nations.
valljez is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2013, 01:08 PM   #20
Frybread glutton
 
Fang's Avatar
 
Items Treasure Chest
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Fang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond repute
Fang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond reputeFang has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 462
Credits: 10,058.25
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by valljez View Post
True, every Nation has it's own teachings and they also vary within those Nations. We need to understand and be respectful of that.
A little off topic , but for the person who asked what a "Women's Circle" is...they vary in purpose. In my circle, we raised money to help members of our community at Christmas. We learned a variety of traditional teachings (since we were not all of the same Nation) ..we did ceremony together , we supported each other, we laughed and cried together. There are social circles, healing circles, teaching circles and I imagine, there are other kinds as well.
There are also men's circles, at least where I have been living..near Six Nations.
Sounds like the native version of a sorority.
Fang is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery