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Old 07-07-2008, 04:39 PM   #1
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What all the powwowers think about this....

What do think of people who are on the Head Staff, that have their significant other and their children..and maybe grandchildren in the dance contest. Most of the time they place at these pow wows.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:07 PM   #2
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What do think of people who are on the Head Staff, that have their significant other and their children..and maybe grandchildren in the dance contest. Most of the time they place at these pow wows.


anish,

I have been on both sides as a head dancer and as a committeeman.

I understand your concern that there may be an unfair disadvantage toward allowing a family member of a head staff to compete, particularly if they come from a well known powwow family.


I don't see anything wrong with family members of the head staff competing just as long as the head dancers don't compete. Powwows are expensive nowadays. Even when getting a room and honorarium, if you travel with a family, most of the time you just break even if you travel a great distance.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:33 PM   #3
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I know lots of Powwow familys that travel and some time are on head staff and some of the Family members set up booths and while some of the family members compete
All pitch in to pay for the travels
If you believe they get rich from doing this
Then they should all be driving in big huge RV's like touring busses
Not eating Bologna sandwiches and washing in the creek on the side of the road...


Besides its the Contest Judges that are the ones that pick who are the winners are...
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:47 PM   #4
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anish,

I have been on both sides as a head dancer and as a committeeman.

I understand your concern that there may be an unfair disadvantage toward allowing a family member of a head staff to compete, particularly if they come from a well known powwow family.


I don't see anything wrong with family members of the head staff competing just as long as the head dancers don't compete. Powwows are expensive nowadays. Even when getting a room and honorarium, if you travel with a family, most of the time you just break even if you travel a great distance.
ya i agree with you on all points ...

my lil family came across this very dilemma a few weeks ago .. my partner was one the assistant AD's for our local casino - where he also works (one head AD and two assistants) and there was six places in all categories (juniors/teens/adults/golden age/drum). he picked adult category judges .. other assistant picked juniors and teens judges

well my eldest daughter wanted to compete. we told her you can if you want to .. but be prepared for comments from ppl at the pow wow or after the pow wow. well mostly from her auntie LOL .. she ended up cryin because of snide comments her aunt was makin while we werent around ... but ya LOL

well turns out ... there was only four dancers total in her category. she danced all wknd but didnt line up wit the rest of the dancers. she ended up gettin fourth wit like 50 points LOL. one judge even came and told her afterwards .. he was ready to pick her first but she walked off LOL.

the head AD's children danced also .. so did the MC's .. some placed and others didnt. luck of the draw i guess ...
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:07 PM   #5
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What I find aggravating is that on many occasions the children of the AD, MC and other head staff dance all of the time at powwows. They learn from their family and are the most respectful towards the committee. I know there are exceptions where everybody said the AD or the MC and their family are rude but for the most part they are usually respected people, why else would they be asked to be part of a particular powwow. Its a double edged sword. If the child is a good dancer, it shouldn't matter but as usual it is usually a relative who has some jealousy issues. They usually don't have the courage to say it out loud to the parents; they say trash to the child and it proves they are nothing but bullies. Screw them, is my belief.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:31 PM   #6
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What I find aggravating is that on many occasions the children of the AD, MC and other head staff dance all of the time at powwows. They learn from their family and are the most respectful towards the committee. I know there are exceptions where everybody said the AD or the MC and their family are rude but for the most part they are usually respected people, why else would they be asked to be part of a particular powwow. Its a double edged sword. If the child is a good dancer, it shouldn't matter but as usual it is usually a relative who has some jealousy issues. They usually don't have the courage to say it out loud to the parents; they say trash to the child and it proves they are nothing but bullies. Screw them, is my belief.
Jealousy runs rampant in parts of Ndn country
Sucks
worst are jealous relatives
double sucks
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:38 PM   #7
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I think that it is unfair but at the same time fair for the head dancers and their families. Honestly, it seems that they always win, even if they never win anywhere else. I think that it is just who you know and not how you dance that makes you win. I've seen so many awsome dancers who always come in second place or last place and then all of a sudden their family is a head dancer or MC or Host drum and all of a sudden they win, how unfair is that. I would just like to go to a powwow where you don't know who the winners are before they get called out on Sunday, that just ruins the whole show, I just came from Samson powwow this weekend, and all I had to do was look at who was running the powwow, who the arena director was and automatically knew who was going to win, they should of just given the money to those people and cancelled the powwow, it was just a waste of time, no wonder why it rained so hard, something wasn't right, but , who am I to criticize. The women's fancy just pissed me off, but hey, you know who you know, I mean the women that took first, well, I really have no comment, and I don't know her and have seen her dance but the one that got second is a totally awsome dancer, but I gotta admit, she was a little slow on Sunday and kinda understand why she didn't take first, like she always does. In all fairness, she woulda got first but like I said it, it's who you know or who you are married to. Well, sorry if I offended anyone, I am just realeasing my demons.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:49 AM   #8
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Well basically it's up to the committee and how they want to run their powwow. I know I have worked for committee's and they allow the family members or dancers on a host drum to contest but do not allow the headstaff or dancers themselves to contest. Personally I have been Head Judge or Tabulator and do not allow my son to compete. Even so, if I was on headstaff, regardless, he would not compete. He also does not compete when he is head boy. But being headstaff does not mean we get all rich etc just because we get paid. Most of it is eaten by the cost of gas and food alone. Now sometimes we'll even do specials or giveaways, now those make me even go broke. Sometimes I spend double or triple over what we are being paid. Being asked to be headstaff, to me, is an honor. I was taught to always give back no matter the cost because being asked to help out in this way is more valuable then any material or monetary thing in the world.

But if the committee says the family members can compete, well then they can. I believe its up to the person or the family themselves whether they want to or not. I don't criticize any families that do, heck gas is expensive and so are the giveaways. Different people do different things and its not my place to judge any one. I respect a dancer or a dancers family who lives up to their name. If those headstaffers just halfassed did their job, then thats a different thing. But most people who are on the headstaff, at least the ones I know including my son, will live up to their name.

I am in no place to judge any one. But if someone places and I see them halfass dancing or competing and gets first....then, well then its mostly the judges decisions, not theirs. That dancer, didn't pick themselves....LOL.

Anyhow, that's all I think on the subject....
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:16 AM   #9
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Just to add a thought.........

If we agree in most cases that the "Head Staff" is picked because of Knowledge and Community commitment. It is reasonable to think that their family and relatives are exposed to at least that much knowledge and skill. Moreover the entire family is more likely to be committed to the culture. In most cases, head staff have family that will come to the dance in support. By numbers and skill set, you would naturally think the family and relatives of the Head staff have a great chance to win , regardless of politics.
I don't think this can be over looked.
Now... if it is a tough dance to judge, maybe things change then.
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:08 AM   #10
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well, bite me in the bunz. I didn't think anyone had opinions, but I guess they do, and yes I will admit, the headstaff at powwows are always champion dancers or singers and they are very good that is why they get picked to be in the headstaff at a powwow. I am just saying that it is unfair to judge a dancer on who they know or who they married to or who they sleeping with. I was a dancer one time and yes, I was a champion but like you said, winning at powwows don't make you rich, so I got smart and got a job that is paying me pretty good. And yes, I have been involved in running a powwow and to tell you the truth, I had to bend the rules a bit, I did not like it, but that was what had to be done in order to get this person(s) to be on our headstaff. I guess we could have gotten someone else but this person was well known and we knew that they would bring in a crowd for us, it's like, I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine. But it ain't all like that at all powwows, but you usually know the outcome when you get there and who the AD, MC, HD are. Well, once again I hope I have not offended anyone with my opinions, but we all know the truth.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:12 PM   #11
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Head dancers should not compete......... unless they are selected to be head dancers for a session. That is how some powwows are doing it these days. HD'ers are chosen for each sesh.

Family members of a Head Judge/AD who select contest judges should not compete......... unless there are male/female head judges. Then maybe if the spouse or children are opposite sexes from the HJ/AD . everything should be cool. My wife will not compete if I select judges. Got that? It's an easy process.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:32 PM   #12
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Well, if only all people were honest like u there Kiwehnzii, some people aren't like that, they think that's the perfect opportunity to make some fast cash. U gotta understand people nowadays do anything for a quick buck, if that means cheating, then they will do it, but that makes that person look bad when their family members win and they are the HD, AD, MC so to make things look good, that family member should just dance but not complete or go to another powwow for one weekend, but not all AD or HD or MC are like that, they will be honest and do what's right, some people do have a conscience (?) u know but there are those who are just trying to get ahead of others. Well, I am not one that wants a fight or anything, so, I will respect everyone who cheats and does what they need to to get ahead in life, after all things aren't going to handed to us on a silver platter, everyone for themselves
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:39 PM   #13
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What I've learned to look at when I see that situation is this: do those family members win top spots at other powwows? Or only when their family is on head staff? I know alot of powwow families that compete where a family member is on head staff. It's usually though when the head staff position is an AD, and not picking the judges for contests. But I don't think anything of it if a dancer can win first place at alot of other powwows and happens to do well at the powwow where their family member is on head staff. It's different if a dancer never places at other powwows, never gets a top spot UNLESS their family is in a head staff position.

Powwow families have alot of dancers that will travel to powwows to support their family members. I also admire those families that still show up to support their family members but they sit out of the contests. I remember being at a powwow two years ago where the AD didn't have ANY of his family there when he was working and had alot to do with the coordination of the powwow...I thought that was just cheap that no one could show up to support him because it meant they couldn't contest. And this was at that family's tribal powwow...lol. Of course when he was able to get his family on the powwow payroll, they all showed in full-force the following year...lol. Sad.

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Old 07-08-2008, 01:43 PM   #14
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Well, if only all people were honest like u there Kiwehnzii, some people aren't like that, they think that's the perfect opportunity to make some fast cash. U gotta understand people nowadays do anything for a quick buck, if that means cheating, then they will do it, but that makes that person look bad when their family members win and they are the HD, AD, MC so to make things look good, that family member should just dance but not complete or go to another powwow for one weekend, but not all AD or HD or MC are like that, they will be honest and do what's right, some people do have a conscience (?) u know but there are those who are just trying to get ahead of others. Well, I am not one that wants a fight or anything, so, I will respect everyone who cheats and does what they need to to get ahead in life, after all things aren't going to handed to us on a silver platter, everyone for themselves
You know what they say....what goes around comes around. And it truly does. When people are dishonest, lie, cheat, stab people in the back, all for their own personal gain, it truly does come back around someday and it usually is ten times worse...lol. As I'm getting older I'm starting to see that happen. It all evens out eventually. Just remember that when you see things that you don't think are fair or right...it all evens out eventually, even if you aren't there to see it happen. When you do see it happen, it just makes you want to be as good a person as you can possibly be...lol.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:46 PM   #15
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Well, if only all people were honest like u there Kiwehnzii, some people aren't like that, they think that's the perfect opportunity to make some fast cash. U gotta understand people nowadays do anything for a quick buck, if that means cheating, then they will do it, but that makes that person look bad when their family members win and they are the HD, AD, MC so to make things look good, that family member should just dance but not complete or go to another powwow for one weekend, but not all AD or HD or MC are like that, they will be honest and do what's right, some people do have a conscience (?) u know but there are those who are just trying to get ahead of others. Well, I am not one that wants a fight or anything, so, I will respect everyone who cheats and does what they need to to get ahead in life, after all things aren't going to handed to us on a silver platter, everyone for themselves
i can see you have issues wit this issue LOL ... i used to. it can be very rampant and very obvious (especially in our area of the woods LOL). i can tell you from experience i've heard from the horses mouth ... one head drum judge to a lead singer ... show up and i'll give you first if you give us first here ... sure its wrong and it aint right. sometimes it back fires ... more often than not LOL. they show the next wknd and get shut out LMFAO. but oh well ... LOL

not that i condone the behaviour ... i jus choose to not make it something that affects my daily life. i know who you are talking about in samson ... sure she is a good dancer and she does get over looked (alot) for what ever reason and i personally have never heard of the dancer who got first (prolly seen her - jus didnt know her name). i also know who the arena director was that wknd.

you have to remember ... the person who picks the judges has NO CONTROL over what any particular judge chooses to put down on that ballot. or if that judge has any hidden agendas LOL.

no one can win ... every time they go out. jus look at the mens prairie chicken category at that very pow wow ... some very well known dancers were shut out too LOL.
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:55 PM   #16
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yeah, I've been to some powwows where people know that I am the head tabulator and then they try to make deals with me and my family, and I am like trying so hard to be fair with the powwow that I tabulate, I leave the books right in the open for the other tabulators to see and people in the audience sees me writing in these books but if I was cheating, I think I would have enough sense to do it where no one could see me, and yes, alot of times the arena director does not pick the judges but they do know who does pick them and then it happens, my head judge was supposed to pick their friends friends to judge and that they they got points, so, I hope that people realize that this cannot last forever, there needs to be a way where people cannot go into the books and cheat for someone, but yeah, I don't know who the lady is that got first in the womens fancy in Samson, but I saw her kissing the arena director on the lips, so I imagine that was her husband or her playthang for the weekend, that was so obvious why she won, but like u say, what goes around comes around.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:04 PM   #17
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yeah, I've been to some powwows where people know that I am the head tabulator and then they try to make deals with me and my family, and I am like trying so hard to be fair with the powwow that I tabulate, I leave the books right in the open for the other tabulators to see and people in the audience sees me writing in these books but if I was cheating, I think I would have enough sense to do it where no one could see me, and yes, alot of times the arena director does not pick the judges but they do know who does pick them and then it happens, my head judge was supposed to pick their friends friends to judge and that they they got points, so, I hope that people realize that this cannot last forever, there needs to be a way where people cannot go into the books and cheat for someone, but yeah, I don't know who the lady is that got first in the womens fancy in Samson, but I saw her kissing the arena director on the lips, so I imagine that was her husband or her playthang for the weekend, that was so obvious why she won, but like u say, what goes around comes around.
ya keep on living your life as you do ... honestly. then no one can say anything about the way you live your life.

thats the main reason why we told our girl ... be prepared for any backlash. and she wasnt ... all the years my partner was assistant AD ... none of our girls competed. but we were always always always asked ... why arent your girls dancing? idk ... i jus want a wknd where we didnt want to worry about makin grand entry and worry about someone saying something LOL. mind you our oldest is only 13 ... something is wrong when someone has a problem wit a child wanting to dance.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:17 PM   #18
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well honestly, with children it's okay, cuz I think the kids do it because they love to dance and show that they too can be champions, they are not really in it for the money or the power, not like us adults, I remember when I was young and dancing, I did it because I loved it, I didn't care if I won or not, as I got older, I realized that this was a way of making money to get to the next powwow and I wouldn't have to work, so, I started to really compete and if I didn't win I was sooooo pissed off, because someone made an effort to kiss A** and I was not going to do that, if I couldn't win with my dancing then I was gonna find a real job. Now I do not dance, nor do I travel to powwows too often, maybe once a month, because I already know who is going to win just by reading a poster. Well, once again, I did not mean to ruffle any feathers but this is the truth and it would be nice to recognize all them dancers who are new to the powwows and those who dance just for fun and excersise (?).
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:54 PM   #19
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, but I saw her kissing the arena director on the lips, so I imagine that was her husband or her playthang for the weekend, that was so obvious why she won, but like u say, what goes around comes around.
Was it a long & loving kiss? Were her eyes closed? Did it look like they was swapping spit? Did she cup his little Indian butt as she kissed him?

Ayyee. J/K
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:57 PM   #20
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Was it a long & loving kiss? Were her eyes closed? Did it look like they was swapping spit? Did she cup his little Indian butt as she kissed him?

Ayyee. J/K
... ya there are varying degrees of how i kiss the AD on how well i want my family to do ... jkz
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