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Old 06-22-2009, 08:09 PM   #1
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What do you think? (prepare for shock)

Okay so I moved to England back in 2003 and obviously was home sick for native gatherings. I met a fellow choctaw and a chicksaw girl who both moved to the UK from OK and told me there are powwows in England.

Getting happy I beaded all of my regalia practiced my dancing and showed up to meet and greet the fellow expats....

But low and behold I heard the drums.....my heart began to pound as I approached them and they were all WHITE!!!!!

Not a native in sight...from the jingle dancers to the fancy dancers to the drum group all dressed as natives but all were english (i asked them) no native blood what so ever...

I WAS IN SHOCK......

When they saw that I was native they all started talking about their spirit guides sent me to them (the drums brought me they said) (which may i also add freaked me out) but

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Does this WHITE native influenced pow wow ruin our legacy and what should I have done about this. I wanted to just get really ghetto but I kept my dignity but i was freaking out to the 10th degree...

Have you guys ever experienced anything like this?
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:30 PM   #2
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OMG white people powwow? What is the world coming to?

oh wait, I remember, there's that bad lady at Ohio State, and that French Jingle lady, remember her? and then the traditional Cherokee grass dancing society. And the wannabes that sell sweat lodges, yadda, yadda, yadda. Spend some time on this site, read old threads, this is shock to no one.

You don't have to go to England (or anywhere else in the United Kingdom) to experience this, you can right here in America.

Oh, and some African Americans called, they want their "ghetto" expression back.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:35 PM   #3
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Well we all know about it but I bet it is no less shocking seeing it, probably would shock ya just as much if you happened on another one.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:37 PM   #4
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lol the african americans called that must be my dad then because he is african american lol my mom is 1/2 choctaw 1/2 caddo...i though ghetto was a common expression not limited to the use of just african americans but i guess i as a 1/2 indian 1/2 african american shouldnt use that phrase again....lol
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:44 PM   #5
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Choctaw northern traditional?
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:25 PM   #6
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lol no sweety
im not northern tradish someone gifted me the northern tradish gear and they invited me to dance and i make the northern cloth dresses
lots of southern dancers wear nothern gear but thats for another thread
this one is about non-native pow wows.
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:56 PM   #7
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Yeah...you'll find some non-natives from time to time singing "our songs". The few that I know of right off the top of my head got their teachings from some of the elders around the drum and the communities in which the songs belong. Now, I'm not saying it is/isn't right...just that it is. I know of one young man (hell, he may be older than I am) who took a lot of "crap" in his early years. Now, he's pretty respected no matter where he goes...or even I go and he's nowhere near. When I was in Oklahoma last, I was asked if I knew this guy because he too was from North Carolina. The boy has "paid his dues" and knows his stuff.

But, back to your "English" friends...I'm sure they didn't get their information from from a Cozad, Zotigh, Collins, Kemble, Lieb, Clark, Ware, etc.

Remember (and I know this is easier said), it is what you make of it.
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:42 PM   #8
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Lightbulb Emulation.....

People emulate one another real simple. Some are pretty good at it and some need to work on it. None the less there is an interest. Now Skins as well as other folks may not take too kindly to "White" people emulating powwow or other particular doings.....I've seen my fair share of either side of that coin. Usually I laugh if its absolutely ridiculous...... In my humble opinion, don't try to get too wrapped up in it cause people are gonna do what they do anyway....

Gotta love some of the comments in this thread.......I.E. Predator and Prey.....
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:25 PM   #9
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On one hand I think there should be a faq on this site that everyone should read that discusses some of these issues so we don't have to re-hash them every time someone discovers something like this, but I also see how it might be good for some to go over these again.
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa_Boy View Post
On one hand I think there should be a faq on this site that everyone should read that discusses some of these issues so we don't have to re-hash them every time someone discovers something like this, but I also see how it might be good for some to go over these again.
Yeah....you could say that or just consider yourelf old (or been on here a long time)!
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When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APRILCHOCTAW View Post
Does this WHITE native influenced pow wow ruin our legacy and what should I have done about this. I wanted to just get really ghetto but I kept my dignity but i was freaking out to the 10th degree...

Have you guys ever experienced anything like this?
This phenomenon seems to be akin to the "Indianist" movement in places like Russia, Czechosovakia, and other Soviet bloc European nations in the late 1980s.

Somehow they got it in their head that Indians are supernaturally more spiritually in tune with in creation than anything they've experienced. Many of them come to realize the frauds that their own religious postulates hold out or them, and are grasping at straws.

My recommendations to them: Learn more about Buddha....I mean hell, Euro's have their own traditions...leave ours the hell alone.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:12 PM   #12
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Youre all right ... I guess it was my first time seeing that so i was shocked and sad i was more sad than anything and pissed off
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:16 PM   #13
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Oh and I forgot to mention the fact that every Sunday in SOuth London there were theses South American dressed up in Cherokee regalia playing pan pipes and handing out literature on comanche indians but they were peruvians who spoke spanish and no english and were collecting money from passers by (guilty white people (rephrase) crying people who felt they owed us something) and one of them had a pamplet saying he was related to geronimo but he was cherokee last i checked geronimo wasnt cherokee.....i was so pissed off at how were just like a freaking joke in some countries they talk about us as if were dead. grrrrrrrrrr
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Old 06-24-2009, 04:36 AM   #14
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Lightbulb Honestly....

I read some of this stuff and I wonder if someone is sitting back concocting this stuff just to get a rise out of people? Even more far fetched to think..... this is actually a person......

Oh yes its happenning once again people.....I'm losing faith in the online community......Never carried much water in the 1st place, and yes the boys were right from 21 jump street.....
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:49 AM   #15
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Hmm

I hardly believe that discussing things, or expression my shock towards something is to be considered "concocting" things to upset people...
Everyone has the right to an opinion and I'm assuming there has been many things in life that has "shocked" people. Some of the stories passed down by the elders are shocking to me too...yet they arent concocting things to upset me. Historical facts arent concoicting things to upset people and neiither is an experience that I wasnt planning on having.

I simply started this thread in order to get opinions on whether i should say something, do something or leave it be. If other people want to share their experoences in accordance with mine it simply does nothing but help by letting me understand that I'm not the only one. Thats what forums are for...They are not just created to discuss the subjects that "you" want to talk about...Forums are for a community and communities are made up of several different people, with several different mind frames, beliefs and personalities..not a bunch of mindless drones all typing in unison about subjects that only you want to hear.
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Old 06-24-2009, 01:01 PM   #16
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I have heard that Europeans have very nice regalia

I wonder if some their regalia are items stolen from dancers here in US that never turns up. I know that throught the years things have been stolen and disapeared from the US powwow circle.

Anyone seen a white eagle tail fan in Europe???
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Old 06-24-2009, 01:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APRILCHOCTAW View Post
I hardly believe that discussing things, or expression my shock towards something is to be considered "concocting" things to upset people...
Everyone has the right to an opinion and I'm assuming there has been many things in life that has "shocked" people. Some of the stories passed down by the elders are shocking to me too...yet they arent concocting things to upset me. Historical facts arent concoicting things to upset people and neiither is an experience that I wasnt planning on having.

I simply started this thread in order to get opinions on whether i should say something, do something or leave it be. If other people want to share their experoences in accordance with mine it simply does nothing but help by letting me understand that I'm not the only one. Thats what forums are for...They are not just created to discuss the subjects that "you" want to talk about...Forums are for a community and communities are made up of several different people, with several different mind frames, beliefs and personalities..not a bunch of mindless drones all typing in unison about subjects that only you want to hear.
while you are correct, yes you are, these forums are controlled by a small group of individuals who do the vast majority of the posting. They tend to talk about only what they want to. They have a sense of humor that if you don't understand it, it can seem mean. There are people here who post things just to stir up trouble, and they don't like it.

About your question, don't ask us, ask your elders, ask your mother, ask people that know your ways. You have absolutely no idea who anyone on this board is, and how wacked their advice maybe. Ask how to make a breastplate, or what's a good powwow to go to. Don't ask questions that should be asked in private.
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Old 06-24-2009, 01:27 PM   #18
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point taken!
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Old 06-24-2009, 01:30 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by APRILCHOCTAW View Post
I hardly believe that discussing things, or expression my shock towards something is to be considered "concocting" things to upset people...
Everyone has the right to an opinion and I'm assuming there has been many things in life that has "shocked" people. Some of the stories passed down by the elders are shocking to me too...yet they arent concocting things to upset me. Historical facts arent concoicting things to upset people and neiither is an experience that I wasnt planning on having.

I simply started this thread in order to get opinions on whether i should say something, do something or leave it be. If other people want to share their experoences in accordance with mine it simply does nothing but help by letting me understand that I'm not the only one. Thats what forums are for...They are not just created to discuss the subjects that "you" want to talk about...Forums are for a community and communities are made up of several different people, with several different mind frames, beliefs and personalities..not a bunch of mindless drones all typing in unison about subjects that only you want to hear.
Actually
This website has been around for many years
In all those years this exact subject has come up many many times
We have written oooodles of opinions vast arguments have ensued
We have discussed the OA Europeans Hobbyist whites Caucasions
We have had those people come on here and start threads about this very subject

So my "esteemed college" Coyote_in_the_House is merely wondering if perhaps people are just starting these kinds of threads to get a rise...

Not your fault that you are now coming to these threads and expressing your Dismay

Its just that we have discussed this until argumentum ad infinitum has set in…

Read the archives and if you find something we have not discussed by all means
POST IT...
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Old 06-24-2009, 01:33 PM   #20
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youre right josiah and i should have searched the threads first for info and just simply replied with my info...im sorry if i offended any one buy talking about something thats already been discussed.
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