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Old 09-11-2005, 06:27 PM   #1
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what is with navajo's and southern style dancing

i am so suprised that the desert indians are wanting to dance southern style if you are out there, who adopted you or who gave you the right to dance these styles. there are a few that wear otoe, kiowa, commanche, and they wear buckskins.

i just want to know whats going on with this regalia business.
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Old 09-12-2005, 12:17 AM   #2
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Well, it seems that once again there is a brave little soul out there in powwow world that would rather type than have the courage to just ask, man to man, a simple question to a docile, humble group of people. So, since this person just decided to make a new account and a thread based on their newfound bewilderment of such an insignificant subject... I thought, I might as well do the same thing... but have some type of context to my post.

To help shed some light into the darkness that you walk, I'll just tell you something I've heard since, let's see here, since birth. Don't judge a book by it's cover. To better explain, ARE YOU FLIPPING SERIOUS? Do you honestly think that us Navajos just decided to pick up the powwow lifestyle just to parade around in another tribes' regalia without knowing the background, the stories, the songs and the feelings without any regard to other Southern tribes? Come on, now! That's like comparing us to the White Trash that decide to be Injun for a weekend and put on some multicolored warbonnet and dance around inside an intertribal "feeling" Indigenous. Now, that my friend is an insult. Navajos are not hobbyists. We aren't fake.

You have to understand that the adoption of Southern Dance styles have been an integral part of powwows. If someone doesn't carry it on, it will be lost and maybe gone forever. You also have to understand that there are a lot of inter tribal marriages throughout Indigenous America uniting various cultures, traditions, dance styles, designs and spirituality. There are members of Oklahoma tribes residing on Navajo land, and have been since the early days. Those people get drawn into the aura of the Navajo and find a mate and/or make friends of Navajos as well. Being the storytellers that Indigenous people are, families are told of old ways, the way everything was started, and the way they are supposed to be conducted. I believe this is a fine example of the meaning behind 'the circle of life', not just human life, but the life of powwow history. Seriously, would you rather have Whitey preaching the significance of the four directions? Or would you rather have another brother or sister with pure Indigenous blood engoring their veins telling you?

There are quite a few Gourd Dance societies on the Navajo reservation that are comprised of Kiowa, Cheyenne, Otoe, Comanche, Ponca ways. The influence of Native American Church aided the adoption of certain rites. You can't say that the colors red and blue, the waterbird, and peyote belong to one specific tribe. I've held the contention that the beauty of being an Indigenous person is the ablility to share. I believe if you don't share, nothing will progress. We will be the same as we were in the old days, one tribe warring against another. The thought of one tribe being better than another tribe aided Whitey to take over our land and have the audacity to tax us for the land they stole.

Rather than fighting and bickering, we should unite one way or another to regain our land. We should pool money generated by Indian casinos to pay for the best lawyers to legally take our land back.

Since you brought up the "regalia business", I must throw in my two bits. Creativity is bliss. Ingornance is hit or miss. A lot of Navajo powwow regalia may resemble designs of another tribe, consider that a TRIBUTE. We aren't trying to show you up in any way. We are in some way thanking you for your influence to express ourselves through dance. Designs are designs, take them for what they are. If they happen to resemble one tribe's designs, whoop dee doo for you, buddy. You can't tell me that designs are mandated to one tribe. If that is the case, then WHICH TRIBE OWNS THE MEDICINE WHEEL? Are you going to sue our ancestors that etched horses and geometric patterns in the wall just because yours did too? We are Indigenous people, we are all related. So brother (or sister), you wanna sue a Navajo for using geometric designs? Then sue all the Navajo rug weavers that have used geometric designs since the beginning of time. You won't hear a Navajo cry bloody murder if they see an OK dancer wearing geometric designs. Why? Because we aren't incipid and we won't point fingers, only our lips.

One last thing. I swear. I believe that your complaint, or whatever the flip you wanna call it, would only hold bearing at a TRADITIONAL "Traditional" POWWOW. However, nowadays, we have COMPETITION powwows. And I have NEVER seen a set of Powwow rules that state: "All designs and dance styles must correspond to the dancer's Tribal Affiliation." Competing at a competition powwow is a business. Females, being females, must have the lastest, phattest fabric or tri cut beads. And their designs have to be 'wicked' or 'tough' or 'bomb'. Most of the designs dancers where nowadays, originate the same way dance styles originated: in dreams. Sometimes, all you have to do is close your eyes and BAM! you have a new design. Other times, you have to look at something or someone to get "inspiration" for your creativity. Should fancy shawl dancers pay royalties to every butterfly they see? Should Male Northern Traditional dancers go back in time to pay royalties to warriors who fought in territorial battles?

I'll leave you to break out the dictionary and study my passage word for word. Don't worry, my grammar is sound- unlike some who post on here... But, there's nothing worse in life than being unoriginal. Remember that.

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Old 09-12-2005, 12:54 AM   #3
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by punkrock
i am so suprised that the desert indians are wanting to dance southern style if you are out there, who adopted you or who gave you the right to dance these styles. there are a few that wear otoe, kiowa, commanche, and they wear buckskins.

i just want to know whats going on with this regalia business.
What the hell dude? or dude-ette? where did you wake up at to come with a freakin lame thread?? This is the 2K's, Y2K happened 5 years ago!! I totally agree with Nastyflaps. We, the Native Americans (hence "Native Americans" ) are an intertribal society with many, if not thousands of intertribal marriages, the days of indian wars are long gone!! The "regalia business"? for example, I had a very good friend from the Lakota Nation who made my first grassdance outfit and put on Lakota designs as they pleased, i did not tell them to put those designs on, they designed the outfit as they wished and then explained the story behind the designs as they gave me permission to dance with and to wear it with honor.

lastly, I have to say, right on nastyflaps! i think this PUNKrock just started an account to try and stir up age old dust.

AHO! keep dancing and singing!!
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Old 09-12-2005, 08:48 AM   #4
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You go Nasty Flaps!!!

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Old 09-12-2005, 08:49 AM   #5
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desert NDNS- WOW! nice terminology there........:(

Quote:
Originally Posted by punkrock
i am so suprised that the desert indians are wanting to dance southern style if you are out there, who adopted you or who gave you the right to dance these styles. there are a few that wear otoe, kiowa, commanche, and they wear buckskins.

i just want to know whats going on with this regalia business.

It's called Pan-Indianism. And, in the contemporary powwow world, a lot of things have become universal. Personally, I have no problem with it as long as it's done respectfully AND as long as people know their individual tribes' HISTORY & TRADITIONS & hold that in higher regard. B/C as much as it is imp't to share, we don't want to become homogenized and forget our individual beauty & diversity as Indian people.

For example, you wouldn't see Navajos wearing these styles @ their traditional/sacred ceremonies.

Big ups to Nasty Flaps!
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Old 09-12-2005, 09:06 AM   #6
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did you notice that punkrock turned off his (or her) reputation? what a wimp...man-up and take your licks!

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Old 09-12-2005, 09:41 AM   #7
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im still waiting for non navajos to don yei bi chei masks and outfits or the imfamous skinwalker "regalia". my question is how come they dont imitate navajos. it would be hilarious.
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Old 09-12-2005, 10:38 AM   #8
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I can only speak for one situation, my dad really had a lot of respect for one particular person who was a really good friend of mine. Her name is Sharon Brokeshoulder and she and I are now sisters because my family adopted her in Oklahoma, put on a feed and gave her the right to wear our tribal dress. She wears this dress with respect and honor and makes us proud that she is a part of our family. She even uses our family song when she is asked to be head dancer. She carries that relationship with alot of love and kind consideration. I have alot of respect for her because of that. So, there are people of the Navajo nation that carry the tribal clothes and traditions given to them with great respect. "Respect" being the operative word.
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Old 09-12-2005, 10:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NastyFlaps
....I'll leave you to break out the dictionary and study my passage word for word. Don't worry, my grammar is sound- unlike some who post on here... But, there's nothing worse in life than being unoriginal. Remember that.

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i agree with everything cept this part...i don wanna spekem the queens eeenglase
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Old 09-12-2005, 12:08 PM   #10
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One thing that really bothers me about this whole thread

You know this thread has a very SNOBBY sound to it. That is probably the thing that bothers me most about reading it, and yea I knew by the sounds the title it probably would bother me, but I came in to read it anyways.

First it seems like there are pow wow snobs that look down on others, as if they are elite and have the word on who can be and who can not be dancing. Dancing is a gift from the creator as is our life, we don't have to ask to live or dance because we were already created to do so by the almighty above.

We were also created equal. So I don't like the sounds of talking about one tribe this, one tribe that.....I was always taught that I am no better, or no worse than anyone else, I am equal and to treat others with that same understanding.

second, I know people get angry when they are disrespected, but I think that the second person sounded snobbish because of their statement about dictionary. You know? Some natives are fortuate to get an education, and when you do you should not look down upon those natives who are not as well educated. I always thought the reason we got educated was to help our people.

You know it was always our way to share, as someone else already pointed out in this thread. That was the most sensible thing that was said so far. If there is any statement that would describe us NDNS would be we Share, generosity & respect. Lets start living up to those old values!

I am for the record Omaha, please feel free to dance and celebrate life in the Arena. It is a good way. Please be respectful of your relatives, we are all related!
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Old 09-12-2005, 12:20 PM   #11
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Lightbulb His Thread Is Rude To An Limit

IF PUNKROCK DUDE THINKS THIS THAT FINE. THERE IS ALOT OF PEOPLE THAT I HAVE RAN INTO ALL OVER INDIAN COUNTRY THAT THINKS THIS BUT DON'T WISH TO HURT ANYONE FEELINGS SO THEY SAY NOTHING. BUT AS FOR MY SELF I HAVE FRIENDS OF ALL NATIONS THAT DANCE WHAT EVER STYLE THEY WISH WITHOUT BEING ADOPTED OF GETTING PERMISION TO DUE SO AND I THINK FOR THOSE THAT WAKE UP ONE MORNING AND WANT TO BE TRADITIONAL CROW STYLE OR SOUTHERN TRADITIONAL OR NORTH EASTERN STYLE DANCERS, AND GO OUT THERE AND DON'T RESPECT THE CERTAIN WAY OF THE DANCE AND DANCE WHAT EVER WAY THEY FEEL LIKE. THEY MAKE IT HARD FOR OTHERS, TO GET APPRECIATED, FOR DANCING IN A GOOD WAY.

BUT I THINK IT LOOKS REALLY NICE WHEN YOU SEE A DINE WOMAN DANCE IN HER TRADITIONAL VELVET DRESS AND HER BEAUTIFUL TORQUOISE AND ENJOY HER PRESENTS AND I WOULD SHAKE HER HAND BECAUSE SHE IS ORIGINAL AND CONFIDENT..


DANCE WHATEVER WAY YOU WANT RESPECT THE DANCE AND RESPECT THE TRIBE YOU DISPLAY. OBOVE ALL LETS RESPECT EACH OTHER FOR THE GOOD AND THE BAD. WE ALL HAVE DRANK FROM THE SAME STREAM AT ONE TIME.
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Old 09-12-2005, 12:21 PM   #12
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yes, there are definitely pw snobs who look down on others and make them feel undeserving of dancing in the circle - it's the main reason i don't dance, which is sad - we should share, it's awesome, but i was also raised to believe that my specific tribal LUMBEE history/culture should always be @ the forefront - b/c once that's gone who will carry on the message of my tribe? don't get me wrong, i love a powwow, but it doesn't make me more or less indian to be involved in one - my identity comes from being Lumbee
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Old 09-12-2005, 12:32 PM   #13
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Ummmm so i want to know who PunkRock and NastyFlaps "REAL" handle is here on pws.com! let's make this a lil bit more interesting! LMAO!
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Old 09-12-2005, 12:46 PM   #14
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Wink

i think theyre both the same person and all their personalities should seek professional help NOW!
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Old 09-12-2005, 01:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkrock
i am so suprised that the desert indians are wanting to dance southern style if you are out there, who adopted you or who gave you the right to dance these styles. there are a few that wear otoe, kiowa, commanche, and they wear buckskins.

i just want to know whats going on with this regalia business.
Southern Desert. Southern Style. I remember back when everyone-Natives included-wanted to be Apache. Then everNative wanted to be Navajos, sporting the Turq with the Squash Blossoms. Then everybody wanted to be a Northern Plains NDN. Seem like Southern era is here. Wonder when everybody will want to be Pueblo, oh wait, that era passed already. Oh and when did buckskin became exclusive to Southern styles (Otoe, kiowa, commanche)? What never seen a Navajo hunt and scrape deer, elk and buffalo (yes buffalo). What these animal brothers are only located in that part of America back in the day. Shesh, Hello, we have mountanis here probably more than over there and we have plains too. And I guess Natives are trying to be Spanish too, being that they all want to ride horses. By the way is the Nike Swoosh, Superman "S" a southern design? Man, Get educated read tons of books then post your thoughts.
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Old 09-12-2005, 01:09 PM   #16
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ok here it goes

i have this theory about dine woman. theyre competitive and have this desire for nice things. in almost all situations and competitions youll find them. if not then youll find them supporting their man. for instance dancing, arts and crafts, rodeo and even politics. their men are at all levels of the PRCA, PBR, powwow, arts and crafts and politics. if a navajo man isnt performing then theyll intermarry and continue the cycle.. lol.

i believe they were behind their men when they made treaties. i can just see chief manuelito, narbano and ganado leaving the house and them saying "dont come back without a least 4 million acres, free medical care and and and.. " lol and "if they agree to that theyll probably give some more."

they are the blame for navajos being so dominant in things. us guys are just slaves..lol
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Old 09-12-2005, 02:14 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by sltate
I can only speak for one situation, my dad really had a lot of respect for one particular person who was a really good friend of mine. Her name is Sharon Brokeshoulder and she and I are now sisters because my family adopted her in Oklahoma, put on a feed and gave her the right to wear our tribal dress. She wears this dress with respect and honor and makes us proud that she is a part of our family. She even uses our family song when she is asked to be head dancer. She carries that relationship with alot of love and kind consideration. I have alot of respect for her because of that. So, there are people of the Navajo nation that carry the tribal clothes and traditions given to them with great respect. "Respect" being the operative word.
I'm proud to be a southern girl and a friend of Sharon Brokeshoulder. She is married to a Shawnee man, which gives her the right to wear his tribal clothes. The Harris family also DRESSED her and she was adopted into their family. In my neck of the woods of northern Oklahoma, this is considered protocol for wearing our TRIBAL CLOTHES. I find it offensive and disrespectful to see other tribes emulating our dresses and dance when it's just for the almighty dollar. Our clothes are not just pow-wow clothes, they are our TRIBAL clothes, just as the chinon, silver and turqois are to the Navajo. Our grandmas wore broadcloth skirts, glass beads, plumes, etc. just like we do today. We have family applique/ribbonwork patterns, they are not just cut out snowflakes!!! One of the things that also wears on my nerves is the way the southern straight dance is mocked and often *******ized by those trying to emulate it. It is all about RESPECT. I say be proud of who you are, wear your own clothes if you must wear ours, please be RESPECTFUL. At Soboba this year they are having a Women's Traditional Southern Cloth contest (you must be in your own tribal regalia). This should be interesting!!
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Old 09-12-2005, 02:27 PM   #18
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This thread is really a slap in the face to all of us.
So many designs and colors are shared between us, yes there are certain items that are nation exclusive but DO NOT pass judgement on others unless you know their story.
Give me a break did not ALL nations use animal skins as clothes??
Should only Ojibwe's wear jingle dresses?
My niece was gifted with a jingle dress and eagle plumes from a northern family, should she have to post a sign on her back so punkrock isn't offended?
Why are you so worried about the "desert people" are you better than them?
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Old 09-12-2005, 02:46 PM   #19
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PunkR,

The modern powwow has contributions from many tribes who did not originally powwow.

The Navaho, like many tribes today, did not have powwows a half-century ago. But like other tribes they have adopted powwow ways. Some in the right way, some just did it/do it. There are some fantastic Navaho dancers and singers on the circuit today.

Why just pick on the Navaho?

There are so many other tribes who dance southern styles as well.

Heck, I've even seen Eskimos (Yupik and Cu'pik) sing southern style!
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Old 09-12-2005, 03:26 PM   #20
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That was my family, the Harris', that dressed Sharon. LOL
I think when it comes to ribbonwork and straight dance, it can get really technical because each tribe has it's own design and origin of that design. My mom always says "try and tell me that is a Sac&Fox, or Ponca,design and I will eat my hat."LOL But she is 72 years old and does not take change very well.
If you wear it with respect and you know your history, then in my own personal opinion, you are welcome to it. It will carry on and be shared. If you just throw it together and mix your designs and tribes and get all neon and flashing lights(haha) then I may have some reservations about my own tribal clothes being worn in that manner. Even for competition. I have the new style beadwork, rhinestones(which I have worn in my beadwork since 1992 after receiving a set from my sister, Lisa Ewalk, so I have been flashy for years.LOL), but my dresses have stayed the same. My grandma's can tell my design a mile away and know where I come from. So, competition does not always change the origin of the dress, just spruces it up a little.
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