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Old 10-18-2005, 06:56 PM   #141
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Old 10-18-2005, 06:59 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutbead Queen
“Navajo Code Talkers”, well interesting you should bring them up. Did you know that prior to WWII, there was a WWI and that (sit down, this is going to hurt) their was a predecessor to the commonly known “Navajo Code Talkers?” Yes, the politically correct way of referring to “Code Talkers” is just that Code Talkers. You see, prior to WWI the Choctaw tribe was the very first native american tribe to ever work with the U.S. war department in developing and implementing a procedure for “code talking”. My point is, do we as Indian people (Dine” included) or anyone else for that matter ever recognize the Choctaw for their initial efforts? Do “Navajo Code Talkers” even recognize or give credit to the Choctaw? Hell NO!!! I have never heard of such a tribute or even acknowledgement of the Choctaw Code Talkers let alone a movie! Furthermore, this is a prime example of how history conveniently gets lost because today everyone assumes that the Navajo Code Talkers are the first initial code talkers. I have yet to witness personally from a Dine’ or a Navajo Code Talker an attempt to correct or even clairify anyone about this fact. What I have witnessed is that they (Dine') gladly receive all the glory without even mentioning the Choctaw. Now how selfish and self centered is that?



The “Drum Out-House” issue…well now why do you think it is my responsibility to take down this insulting monument? It’s not on my rez! The real question is WHY???? DON’T YOU? What the hell is it doing there in the first place and why is it that it that it doesn’t really seem to be an issue with anyone (Dine') driving by it? Why does an Eastern Shoshone have to tell you about it in the first place? You should be just as insulted by it as I am! Why don’t you contact your tribal chairman at the following:

Joe Shirley, President
Navajo Nation
P.O. Box 9000
Window Rock, AZ. 86515

Maybe he can help you resolve this black mark on your sparkling image of perfection! Since it is on Dine’ tribal land I feel that it is a Dine’ tribal problem! What I resent is the fact that it is there in the first place! It is insulting to all indian people and to argue with me about who should take it down is only showing how truly disrespectful you are in the first place!

Have a great day!
Don't forget the Comanche Code Talkers, who have all passed now with the loss of the Late Charles Chibitty. Sorry you didn't teach me anything new. So Navajos are snobby because we don't promote other tribes that had Code Talkers? And because someone in Hollywood made a movie about the Navajo Code Talkers we are disrespectful? If we have to clean up our drum outhouse, then other tribes should be responsible for promoting their own Code Talkers. Don't forget the whole Code Talker issue was classified by the military until the 1980's or 1990.
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Old 10-18-2005, 07:00 PM   #143
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"“Navajo Code Talkers”, well interesting you should bring them up. Did you know that prior to WWII, there was a WWI and that (sit down, this is going to hurt) their was a predecessor to the commonly known “Navajo Code Talkers?” Yes, the politically correct way of referring to “Code Talkers” is just that Code Talkers. You see, prior to WWI the Choctaw tribe was the very first native american tribe to ever work with the U.S. war department in developing and implementing a procedure for “code talking”. My point is, do we as Indian people (Dine” included) or anyone else for that matter ever recognize the Choctaw for their initial efforts? Do “Navajo Code Talkers” even recognize or give credit to the Choctaw? Hell NO!!! I have never heard of such a tribute or even acknowledgement of the Choctaw Code Talkers let alone a movie! Furthermore, this is a prime example of how history conveniently gets lost because today everyone assumes that the Navajo Code Talkers are the first initial code talkers. I have yet to witness personally from a Dine’ or a Navajo Code Talker an attempt to correct or even clairify anyone about this fact. What I have witnessed is that they (Dine') gladly receive all the glory without even mentioning the Choctaw. Now how selfish and self centered is that?"


Hey now, don't forget about the Comanche Codetalkers. The only glory they recieve is within their own tribe, and seldom powwows.
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Old 10-18-2005, 07:15 PM   #144
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The fact that Navajos are noticeable is due to their large numbers, i mean have you SEEN a rodeo filled with greasy but somehow chi'zhii faces???

Aw come on people lighten up, turn that frown upside down!

But to be quite serious, no tribe has dibs to be called number one, pride is one thing but bashing another for the benefit of looking good is pure hatred. And before you nay sayers begin on Apaches, its already been said, but I for one am not gonna allow negatively or stereotypes to shape who I am and where I came from, so neither should anyone. If you feel compelled to be one of those who's life mission to be number one, do it on your own time and in your own head because there are more IMPORTANT issues in the world than your rank.

to break down, RESPECT = RESPECT = RESPECT, and if you can't do it here, then well I dunno bout that.


*steps off of soap box*

ok who's next>?
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Old 10-18-2005, 07:53 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ettareena
Don't forget the Comanche Code Talkers, who have all passed now with the loss of the Late Charles Chibitty. Sorry you didn't teach me anything new. So Navajos are snobby because we don't promote other tribes that had Code Talkers? And because someone in Hollywood made a movie about the Navajo Code Talkers we are disrespectful? If we have to clean up our drum outhouse, then other tribes should be responsible for promoting their own Code Talkers. Don't forget the whole Code Talker issue was classified by the military until the 1980's or 1990.
The purpose of my follow-up to Bluestar 99's comment about the "Navajo Code Talkers" was to inform him, her, or it that "Navajo Code Talkers" had a pedicessor, and apparently come to find out several other companion tribes of "Code Talkers". I wasn't attempting to teach you or anyone else for that matter a damn thing. So back off, you know evidently know it all anyway!

Your words: "So Navajos are snobby because we don't promote other tribes that had Code Talkers? " Well, if you want to refer to yourself and your tribe as being snobby, then that is your business. You suggested it, not me! Don't put words in my mouth! LOL!

Your words: "And because someone in Hollywood made a movie about the Navajo Code Talkers we are disrespectful?"
Noooo...Your not disrepectful because someone made a movie about your tribe in hollywood, your dispectful for garnering all the glory and your failure to recognize those who went before you let alone the other tribes that were code talkers also.

Your words: "If we have to clean up our drum outhouse, then other tribes should be responsible for promoting their own Code Talkers." You HAVE to clean up your drum outhouse? You should be embarrased enough about it in the first place and make every effort to clean it up because it is wrong, disrepectful and a black mark on your perfect image!

Your words: "Don't forget the whole Code Talker issue was classified by the military until the 1980's or 1990." And your point is? I think "Navajo Code Talkers" have been getting ALL the glory currently, and during the 1980's and 90's.
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Old 10-18-2005, 09:58 PM   #146
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Dang did it just get all rez in here?????
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Old 10-18-2005, 10:37 PM   #147
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dam I know it. Straight up throwin' blows and all.


but guyzzz,
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Old 10-19-2005, 01:33 AM   #148
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holy smack,.....

what the hell is going on in here? did anyone
get hurt?!! LOL i miss all the good stuff. jks
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Old 10-19-2005, 02:26 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suthernwaterbird
"“Navajo Code Talkers”, well interesting you should bring them up. Did you know that prior to WWII, there was a WWI and that (sit down, this is going to hurt) their was a predecessor to the commonly known “Navajo Code Talkers?” Yes, the politically correct way of referring to “Code Talkers” is just that Code Talkers. You see, prior to WWI the Choctaw tribe was the very first native american tribe to ever work with the U.S. war department in developing and implementing a procedure for “code talking”. My point is, do we as Indian people (Dine” included) or anyone else for that matter ever recognize the Choctaw for their initial efforts? Do “Navajo Code Talkers” even recognize or give credit to the Choctaw? Hell NO!!! I have never heard of such a tribute or even acknowledgement of the Choctaw Code Talkers let alone a movie! Furthermore, this is a prime example of how history conveniently gets lost because today everyone assumes that the Navajo Code Talkers are the first initial code talkers. I have yet to witness personally from a Dine’ or a Navajo Code Talker an attempt to correct or even clairify anyone about this fact. What I have witnessed is that they (Dine') gladly receive all the glory without even mentioning the Choctaw. Now how selfish and self centered is that?"


Hey now, don't forget about the Comanche Codetalkers. The only glory they recieve is within their own tribe, and seldom powwows.
SWB, you are correct. Choctaw and Comanche Codetalkers have not received much attention. But I have one bone to pick about Dine' being selfish or self-centered. I don't think it's about being selfish, we just happen to dearly appreciate our Marine veterans very much. I am a veteran myself and my grandpa was a codetalker (God rest his soul) and I am VERY PROUD to say he was my grandpa who volunteered for his family first. I think the Choctaw and Comanches were not publicized as much as the Navajo Codetalkers and . I don't hold any grudges for anyone on this thread for thinking who should've received recognition first, because as a veteran we don't think like civilians. We don't think one veteran is better than the other because one received a Medal of Honor or Silver Star and I sure don't think most veterans, especially the first wars are proud of what they saw or did. Killing and seeing your brother in arms blown to bits is nothing to be proud of and I sure don't think they care about who should get recognition. They would rather put all the bad thoughts and nightmares behind them instead of their tribes, families, relatives and friends receiving all the glory. Really? My grandpa told my mom that if she could do one thing, was to never allow anyone of her children to go to war, because it was the most horrible experience he ever had. Now for tribes to say, "Oh! we deserve recognition and statues built in our names" only defines selfishness. If receiving recognition means having your tribe's name on a pedistal, why don't you see first hand what it's like to in the midst of hell. I don't think anyone has the right to say who's better unless you are God. Bytching and complaining is what we all do best don't we?? it's not getting anyone anywhere? Dine', Comanche, Choctaw, Apache, Hopi,.....................well you get the idea.........let's all make up and pay what's due to all veterans. Comanche, Choctaw and Navajo alike, we all bled the same blood for the same reason, so we can all bytch and moan about stupid azz shyt!!!!!!!!!.
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Old 10-19-2005, 11:08 AM   #150
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Old 10-19-2005, 11:25 AM   #151
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Your hatred for Navajos is blinding your judgement....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutbead Queen
The purpose of my follow-up to Bluestar 99's comment about the "Navajo Code Talkers" was to inform him, her, or it that "Navajo Code Talkers" had a pedicessor, and apparently come to find out several other companion tribes of "Code Talkers". I wasn't attempting to teach you or anyone else for that matter a damn thing. So back off, you know evidently know it all anyway!
So your attempt to "inform" Bluestar 99 was not an attempt to teach anyone a damn thing? Hummmmm First you accuse us of not knowing anything, then acting like we know everything, then recognizing that I know everything. Hummmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutbead Queen
Your words: "So Navajos are snobby because we don't promote other tribes that had Code Talkers? " Well, if you want to refer to yourself and your tribe as being snobby, then that is your business. You suggested it, not me! Don't put words in my mouth! LOL!
Oh I'm sorry "snobby" was not the right term. I should have said "selfish and self centered". Per your quote posted yesterday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutbead Queen
"Now how selfish and self centered is that?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutbead Queen
Your words: "And because someone in Hollywood made a movie about the Navajo Code Talkers we are disrespectful?"
Noooo...Your not disrepectful because someone made a movie about your tribe in hollywood, your dispectful for garnering all the glory and your failure to recognize those who went before you let alone the other tribes that were code talkers also.
How do you know this? Have to spoken to all the Navajo Code Talkers, and been present for every single comment ever made by the Navajo Code Talkers. You just hate Navajos so much you assume we all purposefully ignore history. Many people (from all nations) do not know about Code Talkers. Because of History books and the US Military, not because of the Veterans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutbead Queen
Your words: "If we have to clean up our drum outhouse, then other tribes should be responsible for promoting their own Code Talkers." You HAVE to clean up your drum outhouse? You should be embarrased enough about it in the first place and make every effort to clean it up because it is wrong, disrepectful and a black mark on your perfect image!
To be honest, personally, I have never seen this outhouse. But after you so rudely pointed it out, I have plans to make a few calls and talk to some of the people I know from that part of the Navajo Nation. Because, honestly, Joe Shirley isn't going to do squat about it. But the issue is that, BECAUSE this outhouse existS on the Navajo Nation, you feel ALL Navajos are disrespectful. I guess we don't need to discuss AGAIN how ignorant it is to stereotype a whole tribe of people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutbead Queen
Your words: "Don't forget the whole Code Talker issue was classified by the military until the 1980's or 1990." And your point is? I think "Navajo Code Talkers" have been getting ALL the glory currently, and during the 1980's and 90's.
O.K. My point is.... Many, many people did not know about all Native American Code Talkers until after the Military declassified it. I never had a family member in WWI, so I did not know, until our Own Navajo people started recognizing our own in Parades and stuff. Navajos didn't openly talk about it. If you want to give glory out to other tribes, then by all means do so.

I mentioned before the late Charles Chibitty, I know for a fact that he was frequently honored at powwows in Oklahoma. I don't know what metals he received. But he was a kind and respectful man, and I was honored to know him. And yes, I even got the chance to personally thank him for his service.

Navajos are everywhere, on every continent (except Antarctica), in every state of the U.S. and on a lot of other tribal nations, including the Eastern Shoshone. Maybe that is part of the problem, like what Apachedumpling said.
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Old 10-19-2005, 12:21 PM   #152
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Old 10-19-2005, 12:49 PM   #153
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I say this thread is going nowhere and should be stopped, just 'causing lots of tension. And who knows where that can lead to, hopefully it all stays on the net.
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Old 10-19-2005, 01:15 PM   #154
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Indnz pleaze ......Can't we all just get along? Lets just go play Halo 2 ! LOL!
Lol..i'll play with you!..lmao!

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Old 10-19-2005, 01:53 PM   #155
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Wrong audience?

The hostility brought forth in this thread isn't all that serious. Sure some folks here have rec'd Disapproval comments (beads) or have taken insults to a personal level.

I think the Dine', who've responded, are the wrong audience to bring this forward to. The Dine' are just speaking out to say it's not personally them and that they respect other tribes' right to protect their authenticity. We as Dine' should take some responsibility to not encourage our own to wear other tribes' styles or famliies' emblems (for lack of a better word).

Just this past weekend, I commented to a Dine' that he shouldn't dance a certain style because certain people, such as those here, find it insulting. He took it under advisement, and he told me an elder of that tribe said it was okay (he felt the Dine', a long time friend, would respect this style) and he would teach him all that he knew.

I'm not so sure we should be discussing Code Talkers here, bringing up those people who have past on, how much "who knows about what", and who dances best. These comments are unsettling to a lot of us. You must see that this was the intent (to get us upset) of those comments.

Punkrock most-likely started this thread to let out her frustration on one instance she saw, or that a particular dancer was always getting more points that her friends. We can speculate all day. She should have been more descriptive about what she posted and why she felt compelled to make this statement.

Well anyway, I hope you try to see the big picture and not just focus on what's in front of you.
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Old 10-19-2005, 03:21 PM   #156
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I am from the "South", Ponca, Sac &Fox, Pawnee and Otoe as well as Lakota(grandmother from Rosebud), I am speaking only for my self and my family. Some of the nicest people I know are from the Dine' nation and they are very respectful of our ways from the NAC to the pow wow arena to the traditional feasts they have participated in. So, I believe that they share a respect and a love for the arena the same as I do. Respect is the key word.
Also, I am married to a Comanche and had met the late Charles Chibitty and the tribe was very honored by the way he carried himself when asked to receive a Presidential award for being the last Comanche Code Talker...he stated that he did not want the award because none of his brothers received one before they left and he was no better than they. He was proud to be a Comanche and to have played a part in the war, but not to be honored..... because they were fighting for the Comanches and their preservation of culture. So, no matter what tribe you were during that time, you were representing all of us and our rights to dance, sing and the freedom to be who we are.
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Old 10-19-2005, 03:45 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sltate
I am from the "South", Ponca, Sac &Fox, Pawnee and Otoe as well as Lakota(grandmother from Rosebud), I am speaking only for my self and my family. Some of the nicest people I know are from the Dine' nation and they are very respectful of our ways from the NAC to the pow wow arena to the traditional feasts they have participated in. So, I believe that they share a respect and a love for the arena the same as I do. Respect is the key word.
Also, I am married to a Comanche and had met the late Charles Chibitty and the tribe was very honored by the way he carried himself when asked to receive a Presidential award for being the last Comanche Code Talker...he stated that he did not want the award because none of his brothers received one before they left and he was no better than they. He was proud to be a Comanche and to have played a part in the war, but not to be honored..... because they were fighting for the Comanches and their preservation of culture. So, no matter what tribe you were during that time, you were representing all of us and our rights to dance, sing and the freedom to be who we are.
You know that is so true I agree with all you've said cause you are being so real.
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Old 10-19-2005, 06:36 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by vince_j
The hostility brought forth in this thread isn't all that serious. Sure some folks here have rec'd Disapproval comments (beads) or have taken insults to a personal level.

I think the Dine', who've responded, are the wrong audience to bring this forward to. The Dine' are just speaking out to say it's not personally them and that they respect other tribes' right to protect their authenticity. We as Dine' should take some responsibility to not encourage our own to wear other tribes' styles or famliies' emblems (for lack of a better word).

Just this past weekend, I commented to a Dine' that he shouldn't dance a certain style because certain people, such as those here, find it insulting. He took it under advisement, and he told me an elder of that tribe said it was okay (he felt the Dine', a long time friend, would respect this style) and he would teach him all that he knew.

I'm not so sure we should be discussing Code Talkers here, bringing up those people who have past on, how much "who knows about what", and who dances best. These comments are unsettling to a lot of us. You must see that this was the intent (to get us upset) of those comments.

Punkrock most-likely started this thread to let out her frustration on one instance she saw, or that a particular dancer was always getting more points that her friends. We can speculate all day. She should have been more descriptive about what she posted and why she felt compelled to make this statement.

Well anyway, I hope you try to see the big picture and not just focus on what's in front of you.
Finally, a Dine' voice of reason!
I commend you on your comments.
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Old 10-19-2005, 10:12 PM   #159
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Cutbead , you really sound cut throat.....take a chill pill sister.
Ain't no one gonna say the things you wanna hear. Add some mellow drama in there w/o sounding like you be hate-n- an ndn. Then everything will be alright. Go outside , throw in a cd
like Youngbird -kick your Mocs up and watch the fire flies just as the sunset goes down . Anyone want to add anything else?
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Old 10-20-2005, 10:23 AM   #160
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. . . Anyone want to add anything else?

Salt River C,

I have one thing to add. . .



Cutb Q is your neighbor!

Perhaps you can tell her this person?
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