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Old 12-08-2009, 05:10 AM   #1
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Question 1/256 Cherokee?

So, I have a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood card with a 1/256 fraction or 0.00390625 math percent.

I'm just wondering if it counts, or if it's so close to nothing it's not worth mentioning the difference?

Last edited by 81z; 10-03-2010 at 09:14 PM..
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:30 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81z View Post
So, I have a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood card with a 1/256 fraction or 0.00390625 math percent.

I'm just wondering if it counts, or if it's so close to nothing it's not worth mentioning the difference?

Here's a picture...

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...88dbf01214.jpg

I'm German origin I think, last name Paris. I'm just wondering if I'm too White to be considered American Indian.
81,

I met someone who is a 1/512 card carrying Cherokee. His great great great etc. grandmother was no princess. But she was on the Dawes roll.

Even though you're of German origin, you have twice as much Cherokee blood as the the person I met!

Congratulation!

*L
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:14 PM   #3
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Call up Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma and see if you are one of theirs.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:45 PM   #4
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Call up Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma and see if you are one of theirs.
could be, with no minimum blood quantum with the CNO's...

I wonder though how many Full Bloods are reaching that point that they can no longer enroll in tribes that require 1/4 or more
I have alot of friends that are several tribes and there wife is several tribes and so there offspring would be as many as 8 tribes none of which is 1/4 or more
And yet they are Full Blood
Kinda Ironic that a 1/512th is enrolled but a Full Blood can't be
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:45 AM   #5
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could be, with no minimum blood quantum with the CNO's...

I wonder though how many Full Bloods are reaching that point that they can no longer enroll in tribes that require 1/4 or more
I have alot of friends that are several tribes and there wife is several tribes and so there offspring would be as many as 8 tribes none of which is 1/4 or more
And yet they are Full Blood
Kinda Ironic that a 1/512th is enrolled but a Full Blood can't be
That's just wrong. Doesn't culture count at all ?
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:05 AM   #6
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How come when it gets to 1/128th or less...they have to be Cherokee????

I'm jusss messin
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm A Mutt View Post
That's just wrong. Doesn't culture count at all ?
Out in California this has been an issue...

Kumeyaay.com San Pasqual tribe could expel about 80 members

San Pasqual tribe could expel about 80 members

Questions of who belongs, who benefits from casino raised

By EDWARD SIFUENTES - Staff Writer
Saturday, July 19, 2008

About 80 members of the San Pasqual Band of Mission Indians, which owns Valley View Casino, will be expelled from the Valley Center tribe if an internal effort to “disenroll” them is successful.

It is the latest in a long-standing, bitter feud among factions of the 300-member tribe that calls into question what it means to be American Indian and who gets to benefit from the spoils of casino wealth.

A week ago, members of the tribe held separate meetings on the disenrollment matter. One was held at the reservation and another at the Knights of Columbus Hall in Escondido.

The group that met at San Pasqual voted to accept a consultant’s report that concluded the 80 people whose tribal affiliations are in question do not belong and should not be listed as members of San Pasqual.

The other group contends that some of the information in the report is “unsubstantiated.”

Ron Mast, a member of the San Pasqual tribe, filed a challenge in August saying the group does not belong in the tribe. He says the group is made up of descendants of Marcus R. Alto Sr., whom he contends was adopted by his aunt and uncle, Maria Duro Alto and Jose Alto, as a child, but was not their biological son.

“They are not my family,” Mast said in a recent interview. “They have no blood of the band.”

Ray Alto, one of the descendants of Marcus R. Alto Sr., declined to comment.

The term “blood of the band” refers to kinship among tribal members. It was a method of describing an individual’s Indian heritage by U.S. census takers, beginning in the mid-1800s.

San Pasqual’s constitution requires that people have at least one-eighth blood of the band to belong.

Mast says that because Marcus R. Alto Sr. was adopted, he does not meet the requirement and neither do his descendants. In his challenge, he submitted Alto’s baptismal certificate as evidence. In it, Alto’s mother is listed as Benedita Barrios, a non-tribal member.

<continue reading article via link above>
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:04 AM   #8
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If I might recommend a book:

Real Indians: Identity and the Survival of Native America by Eva Marie Garroutte is a very interesting discussion of blood quantum, culture and identity.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:22 PM   #9
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| Review | The History Teacher, 38.1 | The History Cooperative

Real Indians: Identity and the Survival of Native America, by Eva Marie Garroutte. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2003. 223 pages, $50.00 cloth, $19.95 paper.

Vol. 38, No. 1 November 2004

Along with Native activist-thinkers like Vine Deloria, Jr., Wilma Mankiller, Oren Lyons, and Winona LaDuke, Eva Garroutte contends that any resolution of the myriad problems facing American Indians today must be contingent upon a respect for and employment of indigenous intellectual perspectives. If, as the author recommends, tribal peoples and their communities decide to look to their own unique knowledge bases, they may devise definitions of Indianness that could subsume idiosyncratic political, social, religious, and economic differences. They could also privilege members of the tribal intelligentsia like elders and teachers while, finally, refuting the presumed expertise of outsiders.

Eva Garroutte uses Real Indians to remind readers that the intellectual heritage of colonialism is, regrettably, alive and well. To bring down this particular house, one more than five centuries old that has served the colonizers and their descendants all too well, it is necessary to allow for the existence of Native American knowledge. It is necessary to go a step farther and accept this way of knowing and this mode of discourse as valid. Only then will Natives, non-Natives, academicians, politicians, and activists have the proper tools to complete this tremendous but essential task.


California State University, Chico Lisa E. Emmerich

-----------------------------------
Looks like a profound examination of the matter, see if I can find a used paper copy through UC system. Thanks!
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Old 12-09-2009, 02:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
| Review | The History Teacher, 38.1 | The History Cooperative

Real Indians: Identity and the Survival of Native America, by Eva Marie Garroutte. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2003. 223 pages, $50.00 cloth, $19.95 paper.

Vol. 38, No. 1 November 2004

Along with Native activist-thinkers like Vine Deloria, Jr., Wilma Mankiller, Oren Lyons, and Winona LaDuke, Eva Garroutte contends that any resolution of the myriad problems facing American Indians today must be contingent upon a respect for and employment of indigenous intellectual perspectives. If, as the author recommends, tribal peoples and their communities decide to look to their own unique knowledge bases, they may devise definitions of Indianness that could subsume idiosyncratic political, social, religious, and economic differences. They could also privilege members of the tribal intelligentsia like elders and teachers while, finally, refuting the presumed expertise of outsiders.

Eva Garroutte uses Real Indians to remind readers that the intellectual heritage of colonialism is, regrettably, alive and well. To bring down this particular house, one more than five centuries old that has served the colonizers and their descendants all too well, it is necessary to allow for the existence of Native American knowledge. It is necessary to go a step farther and accept this way of knowing and this mode of discourse as valid. Only then will Natives, non-Natives, academicians, politicians, and activists have the proper tools to complete this tremendous but essential task.


California State University, Chico Lisa E. Emmerich

-----------------------------------
Looks like a profound examination of the matter, see if I can find a used paper copy through UC system. Thanks!
Vine Deloria, Jr., the noted Yankton Dakota who is referred to in the quote above, his child does not meet the requirements for tribal enrollment. Them Deloria men have been marrying white women since the 1800s, andit finally caught up to them too.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:44 AM   #11
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Iowa Boy -

Thanks for info! Wilma Mankiller's mom was white, Wilma eventually became a Chief. I guess her children are from a marriage to a non-tribal man, so they are down to 25% ?
But then...who lives on the rez, keeps their culture and customs?
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:01 AM   #12
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Hhhmmm, I wonder how White I am? 99.99%? 100%?
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:58 AM   #13
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Were you raised as a white person in a white community?
If so you are white with indian ancestry.
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:26 AM   #14
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as mentioned earlier the "native activist-thinker" Vine Deloria, hailed by many as a radical indian who challenged the US govt and spoke for native america in the 70s/80s never lived on a reservation. In fact, he grew up in Iowa for most of his childhood. Both his father and grandfather were missionaries to Indian people. I once asked him what his favorite movies was, he said "State Fair" (a musical, the original is in black and white), when I asked him why, he said that it remined him most of his childhood.

that blew my freakin mind man, think about it. Raised christian in iowa, away from all ndn live, but grew up to be a voice for all native people, he wrote and talked extensively about the plight of the reservation experience (but he never experienced it). He did a tremendous amount of good for ndn people, but lived "white".

he legally was ndn (his kid isn't), but culturally was not. In fact, his family was actually Yankton Dakota (a "d" dialect) but his dad was raised among the Lakota (and yes there are differences in their cultures too). His mom was white, his wife was white, his grandmother was white, his great grandmother was white, his great-great grandfather was a frenchman (I may have forgot a generation?)

its the great question of this site, what makes some an indian.........
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:23 PM   #15
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... what makes some an indian.........


"When someone in your family tells you you're grandmother was an Indian and you feel it in your heart!"


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Old 12-21-2009, 01:48 PM   #16
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"When someone in your family tells you you're grandmother was an Indian and you feel it in your heart!"


but only if your grandmother was a princess
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:13 PM   #17
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Tremendous Amount of Good....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa_Boy View Post
as mentioned earlier the "native activist-thinker" Vine Deloria, hailed by many as a radical indian who challenged the US govt and spoke for native america in the 70s/80s never lived on a reservation. In fact, he grew up in Iowa for most of his childhood. Both his father and grandfather were missionaries to Indian people. I once asked him what his favorite movies was, he said "State Fair" (a musical, the original is in black and white), when I asked him why, he said that it remined him most of his childhood.

that blew my freakin mind man, think about it. Raised christian in iowa, away from all ndn live, but grew up to be a voice for all native people, he wrote and talked extensively about the plight of the reservation experience (but he never experienced it). He did a tremendous amount of good for ndn people, but lived "white".

he legally was ndn (his kid isn't), but culturally was not. In fact, his family was actually Yankton Dakota (a "d" dialect) but his dad was raised among the Lakota (and yes there are differences in their cultures too). His mom was white, his wife was white, his grandmother was white, his great grandmother was white, his great-great grandfather was a frenchman (I may have forgot a generation?)

its the great question of this site, what makes some an indian.........
++++++++++++++++

What "makes"? Whether you have blood, genes, or ancestry..."being" there should count. You mentioned "missionaries" - here's one:

Official Site of the Navajo Code Talkers

During the early months of WWII, Japanese intelligence experts broke every code the US forces devised. They were able to anticipate American actions at an alarming rate. With plenty of fluent English speakers at their disposal, they sabotaged messages and issued false commands to ambush Allied troops. To combat this, increasingly complex codes were initiated. At Guadalcanal, military leaders finally complained that sending and receiving these codes required hours of encryption and decryption—up to two and a half hours for a single message. They rightly argued the military needed a better way to communicate.

When Phillip Johnston, a civilian living in California learned of the crisis, he had the answer. As the son of a Protestant missionary, Johnston had grown up on the Navajo reservation and was one of less than 30 outsiders fluent in their difficult language. He realized that since it had no alphabet and was almost impossible to master without early exposure, the Navajo language had great potential as an indecipherable code. After an impressive demonstration to top commanders, he was given permission to begin a Navajo Code Talker test program.

Their elite unit was formed in early 1942 when the first 29 Navajo Code Talkers were recruited by Johnston.
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:36 PM   #18
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but only if your grandmother was a princess


Or your uncle was a queen!
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Old 12-21-2009, 04:21 PM   #19
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Or your uncle was a queen!
I had a great grandmother who played for the other team. Does that count?
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:10 PM   #20
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Were you raised as a white person in a white community?
Yup, just like any other American caucasian male. I always knew by instinct my red ancestry is extremely insignificant, and I never really gave it a second thought, until I looked up 1/256 on a calculator.

It's what you'd expect if I did have any non-white ancestry... a number that from a practical and reasonable view, doesn't count.

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