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reocurringdream 01-15-2013 08:29 AM

Blood & Asia
 
Hello,
I'm new to the forum and of Korean descent. I have 2 questions. I was wondering how people feel about keeping the bloodlines intact. I myself believe that the mind, body, and spirit are one and thus how the spirit flows is dependent upon our blood/dna. Just as it matters whether we are male or female affect our nature and spiritual tendencies, keeping our bloodlines intact matters to our relationship with the Spirit, and the authenticity/unity of our people's purpose on earth. Therefore, to me, it's important to maintain bloodlines even as we change with our culture, our struggles, our identity, etc. Although not politically correct according to the hypocritical white man (even though they display overt racial preference for other whites), maintaining bloodlines is important because it is more than dna coding but a dna frequency to relate with our ancestors and Spirit in our own unique embodiment and make-up. That being said, blood/dna research, ancient maps, ancient histories, ancient culture unite us as a common peoples, so is it not a mystery but a reality that we are lost brothers and sisters of generations past. Shouldn't we transcend the divisive English language for our peoples, for example, we don't have a unifying word for our peoples in English. I am called Asian, but that is a matter of geography, or Mongoloid, but that is a matter of nationality, but what do we call in English all our peoples around the world (my 1st question)?

In Korean we call our peoples Dong-Yi despite where we reside, but its a word that signifies our origin/bloodlines, so Koreans would come here and recognize Native Americans as Dong-Yi people rather than merely by nation or geography. I guess, I am trying to say we are brothers and sisters, don't we deserve to overcome the white man's continuing severing of our peoples and build a new social context of relations with each other? For example, Japan and Korea had awful past history between each other but the peoples were able to overcome it despite governmental flare ups here and there, and build a new social context with each other. There are differences, yes, but we have a stronger peoples and common benefit to all our peoples in Southeast and East Asia having cultural exchange, inter-marriage, trade, etc...all done despite governmental or the white man's interference. One could even say the rise of Asia is in direct correlation to the unity of its peoples and our past weakness is in direct correlation to our division.

I would just like to hear about peoples acceptance or un-acceptance of the idea of building a new social context between our peoples, regardless of difficutly/feasibility, ... do you recognize your brother and sisters in Asia? Is there not value in trying to develop relations as Hopis/Tibetans or Hawaiian/Japanese have? So my question to y'all is that do you value social interaction with your lost brothers and sisters namely Japanese, Filipino, Korean, Tibetan, Mongolian, etc. peoples or do diverging histories due to the white man, geography, and culture outweigh our common blood/dna and ancestry (my 2nd question)? And I'm not talking about business relations, I'm talking about people relations. If you could please state what nation you are from, and response to question 1 & 2. Thank you.

JeremyRay 01-18-2013 01:30 AM

As a mixed raced person I would say you are a very embarrassing human being. Also, Asian women like me and I like them.

milehighsalute 01-18-2013 12:16 PM

i think the whole hopi/tibetian thing is just a few individuals & sponsored by twinkies with money & cameras because THEY wanted it to happen so much

reocurringdream 01-21-2013 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyRay (Post 1555759)
As a mixed raced person I would say you are a very embarrassing human being. Also, Asian women like me and I like them.

Well said, just like a white man. Good for you. Why embarrassing? Embarrassing for you? Your comment is pretty hostile, and only proves more to the fact that bloodlines are important. Too bad for you that 60% of the world agrees with me, and that's only Dong-yi ppl. If you count white, black, Arabs, Jews, that know the same, then you'll have to re-assess and realize this is a real issue for ppl wanting to continue their traditions and culture. The only difference between natives and asians is geography, culture, and language. i'm not embarrassed, but proud of it. We are the same ppl with diversity. What's wrong with our blood/dna that I shouldn't say that? If the inadequacy of the words in the post give you problem, I'm trying to say its not only a conclusion for Natives to become white as this is a real issue in the Native community, but that there is a greater tribe of our ppl uniquely dong-yi. It's not embarrassing for me because I'm the one that said it obviously. Again, Why embarrassing? Embarrassing for you? Is this a website for whites posing as Natives. Is that the embarrassment? I don't understand your hostility. My wife is like you of mixed race. I know you didn't know that, but I just want to let you know I'm not excluding you, you just excluded yourself.

reocurringdream 01-21-2013 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milehighsalute (Post 1555770)
i think the whole hopi/tibetian thing is just a few individuals & sponsored by twinkies with money & cameras because THEY wanted it to happen so much

Actually, I've been there, and its a community, more than "a few individuals." And the Hopi/Tibetan "twinkies" don't have alot of money or cameras. True they wanted it to happen but THEY didn't do it with money & cameras. They did with hard work, commonalities, and spiritual union. Its pretty amazing! I do understand your disbelief, but it does exist as much as the sun, moon, and stars.

milehighsalute 01-21-2013 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reocurringdream (Post 1555925)
Actually, I've been there, and its a community, more than "a few individuals." And the Hopi/Tibetan "twinkies" don't have alot of money or cameras. True they wanted it to happen but THEY didn't do it with money & cameras. They did with hard work, commonalities, and spiritual union. Its pretty amazing! I do understand your disbelief, but it does exist as much as the sun, moon, and stars.

im pueblo.....i know its hard for alot of people to believe that other pueblos exist outside of hopi....BUT i never hear anyone talkin about no tibetan connection and dialogue between them blah blah blah........i should ask my hopi friends though.........and as i said im sure it was TWINKIES that one day said "hey we are so enthralled with hopis and with remote tibet tribes we should get them together and see what happens".........i seriously dont think a buncha skins sat around thinking about how they had to make this happen......tibetans either

reocurringdream 01-22-2013 12:49 PM

Do they still make twinkies?

reocurringdream 01-22-2013 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milehighsalute (Post 1555932)
im pueblo.....i know its hard for alot of people to believe that other pueblos exist outside of hopi....BUT i never hear anyone talkin about no tibetan connection and dialogue between them blah blah blah........i should ask my hopi friends though.........and as i said im sure it was TWINKIES that one day said "hey we are so enthralled with hopis and with remote tibet tribes we should get them together and see what happens".........i seriously dont think a buncha skins sat around thinking about how they had to make this happen......tibetans either

This reference to twinkies, you want to highlight. You know, Asians aren't really yellow. Have you not met any? Would you call yourself yellow? We become black, we become red, we become white also. We also are born with a blue-green spot. Its just a matter of where we are and maturity. "White" ppl aren't white either, they are pale and opaque. Just hope you know static colors don't really apply to us. It really began as a black & "white" thing. You and I being included in this racist construct was an afterthought. In truth, East Asians were called white...White Brotherhood, the White Horde, those clothed in White, White ppl. What we call "white" in the West were actually called "yellow hair", they didn't get a "clothing" of color. We referred to them by their hair. The rest of the ppls are all black/dark hair so we were given a "clothing" of color. Colors in the ancient past were more than skin deep, but connoting deeper qualities than skin. It could actually be talking ethnocentrically about our ppl because we become all the colors. You know, there is more to the story than "white" lies. I hope you know that. I got the same stories as you in my culture and we didn't sit around talking about it, did we?
Anyways, I'm not sure I understand how you think it happened then. Its there and its going, so if it wasn't ppl deciding to do it, then how did it happen? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Are you saying it was forced? Or do ideas have to have a history of being talked about? Please clarify.
Btw, I am aware of pueblos outside of hopis, but you are aware that tibetans are not rich as you alluded. I don't think money was the reason. Research the commonalities and I think you'll find that it has nothing do with such a base thing as money.
I understand you might be weary of the prospect due to the history and what has been lost. But we aren't needing your land or something. Its just alot of things in the past have stood in the way of our brother/sisterhood, and its just a desire to get the family back together. We don't have to live in communities if that is what you are afraid of, but we should at least have liasons to piece the greater story of our ppl. But it is happening more than you know I think. The Mayans and Chinese are building one in Mexico right now. And, I'm here talking with you. The world is moving past the "white" lies, just thought there might be more wanting too.

Matsuki101 08-22-2013 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyRay (Post 1555759)
As a mixed raced person I would say you are a very embarrassing human being.

THIS

...and just thought I'd add, since the OP is so fixated on the social concept of race, that the "blood" of the "whiteman" he despises so much is flowin' through his "pure" Korean veins.

For those unaware, Korea, much like here in Japan, has some really weird fixation on blood...they've literally taken blood type discrimination propaganda, that was first pushed by the Nazis, and adopted it to literally discriminate people based on their blood types. Things aren't as bad as they used to be here in Japan, you wouldn't get jobs or get to marry if you were the wrong blood type, but it's still very common for people to inquire about your blood type when they first meet you, and stereotype you based on it. I've heard it's still really bad in Korea though I don't live there so take that with a grain of salt.

As to Korea's view on Native Americans....it can pretty much be summed up as "Silly Indians, don't you know you're Korean?!" :rolleyes: The OP's views on blood and racial purity are unfortunately far too common among Koreans and share more with Hitler's view of the world than most reasonable people in 2013. Although the country is rich, well-educated, peaceful and fairly ethnically homogeneous – all trends that appear to coincide with racial tolerance – more than one in three South Koreans said they do not want a neighbor of a different race. This may have to do with Korea’s particular view of its own racial-national identity as unique – studied by scholars such as B.R. Myers – and with the influx of Southeast Asian neighbors and the nation’s long-held tensions with Japan....but don't take my word for it:

The Americas were Korea:
America was Korean Territory - YouTube

Inca and Mayan civilizations are Korean:
Korean established Aztec, Inca civilizations - YouTube

Basically all technology was invented by Korea:
Korea is origin of modern technology - YouTube

None of this surprising as Koreans are the best race:
Racial Superiority Propagation - YouTube

Korea's Independence Hall: The Independence Hall of Korea

Features: A description of the Korean race's physical characteristics that went something like this: A broad forehead suggests large brain capacity unlike Mongolians who have a narrow forehead. A description of a war where they beat a several hundred thousand strong Chinese army thus preserving the racial integrity of Korea.

If you're done laughing, here's something interesting to chew on...there have been quite a few ancient "Korean" artifacts found in Alaska that predate the anything ever found in Korea. :g0000000:

milehighsalute 08-24-2013 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reocurringdream (Post 1555986)
This reference to twinkies, you want to highlight. You know, Asians aren't really yellow. Have you not met any? Would you call yourself yellow? We become black, we become red, we become white also. We also are born with a blue-green spot. Its just a matter of where we are and maturity. "White" ppl aren't white either, they are pale and opaque. Just hope you know static colors don't really apply to us. It really began as a black & "white" thing. You and I being included in this racist construct was an afterthought. In truth, East Asians were called white...White Brotherhood, the White Horde, those clothed in White, White ppl. What we call "white" in the West were actually called "yellow hair", they didn't get a "clothing" of color. We referred to them by their hair. The rest of the ppls are all black/dark hair so we were given a "clothing" of color. Colors in the ancient past were more than skin deep, but connoting deeper qualities than skin. It could actually be talking ethnocentrically about our ppl because we become all the colors. You know, there is more to the story than "white" lies. I hope you know that. I got the same stories as you in my culture and we didn't sit around talking about it, did we?
Anyways, I'm not sure I understand how you think it happened then. Its there and its going, so if it wasn't ppl deciding to do it, then how did it happen? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Are you saying it was forced? Or do ideas have to have a history of being talked about? Please clarify.
Btw, I am aware of pueblos outside of hopis, but you are aware that tibetans are not rich as you alluded. I don't think money was the reason. Research the commonalities and I think you'll find that it has nothing do with such a base thing as money.
I understand you might be weary of the prospect due to the history and what has been lost. But we aren't needing your land or something. Its just alot of things in the past have stood in the way of our brother/sisterhood, and its just a desire to get the family back together. We don't have to live in communities if that is what you are afraid of, but we should at least have liasons to piece the greater story of our ppl. But it is happening more than you know I think. The Mayans and Chinese are building one in Mexico right now. And, I'm here talking with you. The world is moving past the "white" lies, just thought there might be more wanting too.

i wonder if youre still around......you have no idea what a twinkie is andi dont think you got a single thing i said......nor could i make you understand unless i give you a crash course......i dont have time or desire for that

Matsuki101 09-04-2013 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milehighsalute (Post 1587415)
i wonder if youre still around......you have no idea what a twinkie is andi dont think you got a single thing i said......nor could i make you understand unless i give you a crash course......i dont have time or desire for that

A "Twinkie" to Asian Americans means an Asian that's become totally white at heart. (Also heard banana as well and egg to describe white people trying to be Asian) Not the same way you're using it. (hence the confusion) Not sure what mixed people like myself are considered but it sounds like a pretty nasty omelet.

Zeke 09-04-2013 04:48 PM

Normally, I get into the race baiting stuff but this is just boring.

If you're fixated on blood, you're a fearful racist.

Not complex.

MoonWoman 09-04-2013 11:59 PM

Funny how you are so fixated on blood and DNA but somehow maintain that Koreans and Native Americans are one and the same....? What scientific evidence are you inferring exists that proves Native Americans and Koreans share the same bloodline...? Or is your message that all races should unite against "the white man"...? And in that case, what blood quantum from which geographical origins define white?

Maize-Grower 08-27-2014 04:47 AM

If anything, we're more similar to Joumon culture... 冗談じゃない。 (Not kidding.) I have compared various Native legends to those of Japan's Joumon and Yoyoi periods as well as extant Ainu texts and cultural artifacts of both regions. My conclusion is that there was possibly trade at the very least because of cultural and artistic similarities between Ainu and Haida peoples. There are also some religious ideas that bear similarity such as a belief in a Creator and vast number of spirits of nature. There's also a resemblance between the story in the Kojiki of the sacrifice of the Food Goddess resulting in people being forced to toil for food and the sacrifice of the Corn Woman (Selu in Cherokee Mythology, called various other names and seems to be nearly the same story among the Maya) which had the same outcome. However, I must point out that the most recent that migration could have happened, is 5-9000 years BP. Even if this were not the case, Koreans living at that time are not the same Koreans alive today. The Han invaded from China and wiped them out at the end of the 3 Kingdoms Period. People living in Korea now are a mix of the Han and later occupying Mongols. After the fall of the Great Mongolian Empire, Joseon Dynasty lasted until 1910 when the King died. From the Mongols, the Koreans received Hoh Tolboton, the Blue Mark, said to be the blessing of Tengri. Now, since we know for sure due to genetic studies that we're related to Mongolians, that could be why Koreans get confused. But our shared ancestry is Mongolian, not Korean. Interesting to note: Tengri is a Sky God represented by a wolf and an eagle. Tengriists believe cardinal directions are important and they are represented by different colors. Heck of a coincidence... but not a whiff of this in Korean Religion. The Han were Confucian and followed the 7 lucky gods as well as Buddhism.

TL:DR
Ancient Japanese and NDNz share some cultural similarity and may have made contact. Mongolians share some ancestry according to DNA. Koreans' only relation is because Mongolia conquered them. Even if ancient Koreans came, they wouldn't be related to modern Koreans.

Matsuki101 08-27-2014 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maize-Grower (Post 1605736)
If anything, we're more similar to Joumon culture... 冗談じゃない。 (Not kidding.) I have compared various Native legends to those of Japan's Joumon and Yoyoi periods as well as extant Ainu texts and cultural artifacts of both regions. My conclusion is that there was possibly trade at the very least because of cultural and artistic similarities between Ainu and Haida peoples. There are also some religious ideas that bear similarity such as a belief in a Creator and vast number of spirits of nature. There's also a resemblance between the story in the Kojiki of the sacrifice of the Food Goddess resulting in people being forced to toil for food and the sacrifice of the Corn Woman (Selu in Cherokee Mythology, called various other names and seems to be nearly the same story among the Maya) which had the same outcome. However, I must point out that the most recent that migration could have happened, is 5-9000 years BP. Even if this were not the case, Koreans living at that time are not the same Koreans alive today. The Han invaded from China and wiped them out at the end of the 3 Kingdoms Period. People living in Korea now are a mix of the Han and later occupying Mongols. After the fall of the Great Mongolian Empire, Joseon Dynasty lasted until 1910 when the King died. From the Mongols, the Koreans received Hoh Tolboton, the Blue Mark, said to be the blessing of Tengri. Now, since we know for sure due to genetic studies that we're related to Mongolians, that could be why Koreans get confused. But our shared ancestry is Mongolian, not Korean. Interesting to note: Tengri is a Sky God represented by a wolf and an eagle. Tengriists believe cardinal directions are important and they are represented by different colors. Heck of a coincidence... but not a whiff of this in Korean Religion. The Han were Confucian and followed the 7 lucky gods as well as Buddhism.

TL:DR
Ancient Japanese and NDNz share some cultural similarity and may have made contact. Mongolians share some ancestry according to DNA. Koreans' only relation is because Mongolia conquered them. Even if ancient Koreans came, they wouldn't be related to modern Koreans.

Spot on!

Joe's Dad 08-27-2014 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maize-Grower (Post 1605736)
If anything, we're more similar to Joumon culture... 冗談じゃない。 (Not kidding.) I have compared various Native legends to those of Japan's Joumon and Yoyoi periods as well as extant Ainu texts and cultural artifacts of both regions. My conclusion is that there was possibly trade at the very least because of cultural and artistic similarities between Ainu and Haida peoples. There are also some religious ideas that bear similarity such as a belief in a Creator and vast number of spirits of nature. There's also a resemblance between the story in the Kojiki of the sacrifice of the Food Goddess resulting in people being forced to toil for food and the sacrifice of the Corn Woman (Selu in Cherokee Mythology, called various other names and seems to be nearly the same story among the Maya) which had the same outcome. However, I must point out that the most recent that migration could have happened, is 5-9000 years BP. Even if this were not the case, Koreans living at that time are not the same Koreans alive today. The Han invaded from China and wiped them out at the end of the 3 Kingdoms Period. People living in Korea now are a mix of the Han and later occupying Mongols. After the fall of the Great Mongolian Empire, Joseon Dynasty lasted until 1910 when the King died. From the Mongols, the Koreans received Hoh Tolboton, the Blue Mark, said to be the blessing of Tengri. Now, since we know for sure due to genetic studies that we're related to Mongolians, that could be why Koreans get confused. But our shared ancestry is Mongolian, not Korean. Interesting to note: Tengri is a Sky God represented by a wolf and an eagle. Tengriists believe cardinal directions are important and they are represented by different colors. Heck of a coincidence... but not a whiff of this in Korean Religion. The Han were Confucian and followed the 7 lucky gods as well as Buddhism.

TL:DR
Ancient Japanese and NDNz share some cultural similarity and may have made contact. Mongolians share some ancestry according to DNA. Koreans' only relation is because Mongolia conquered them. Even if ancient Koreans came, they wouldn't be related to modern Koreans.

My DNA is not related to mongolians.

If you have to read who you are and where you came from...you don't know who you are.

Maize-Grower 08-27-2014 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1605784)
My DNA is not related to mongolians.

If you have to read who you are and where you came from...you don't know who you are.

About Mongolian Genes:

Well... Science says otherwise. This isn't politically correct, but Nat-Geo is a very credible source so I think it's safe to say it's correct to the best of available knowledge. I know my ancestors' creation story; and I know it's impossible for the whole continent to float on the back of a water bug. I take these stories as metaphors or life lessons, not literally.

Is This Russian Landscape the Birthplace of Native Americans?

About knowing who I am:

I don't get that from books. I get that from introspection.

Grits & Beans 08-28-2014 02:09 PM

^^^are you a scientist?

Joe's Dad 08-28-2014 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maize-Grower (Post 1605789)
About Mongolian Genes:

Well... Science says otherwise. This isn't politically correct, but Nat-Geo is a very credible source so I think it's safe to say it's correct to the best of available knowledge. I know my ancestors' creation story; and I know it's impossible for the whole continent to float on the back of a water bug. I take these stories as metaphors or life lessons, not literally.

Is This Russian Landscape the Birthplace of Native Americans?

About knowing who I am:

I don't get that from books. I get that from introspection.

Am I understanding you went inside yourself to find out your heritage and culture?

OLChemist 08-28-2014 04:00 PM

Maize Grower, I am a scientist. The ink on my PhD was a quarter of a century old last year and I've been working in academic, government and industrial labs for over thirty years. I do not say this to dismiss or belittle you. But, instead to suggest I might have a POV you would like to consider.

I'm not going to debate population genetics or mutational frequencies. I don't really care about where, when or how the alleles drifted. That is not this issue I have with the use of genomics.

Being a Native woman has raised a few ethical dilemmas in my pursuit of science. Science as practiced in every lab I've ever been in, discussed at every conference I've ever attended, taught in every book I've ever read is a dominant culture affair. And it clothes itself in an assumption of both a supremacy and universality that is at its very roots a Western, secular humanist affair.

In the ethos of science "truth," as discovered in the lab and espoused by the practitioners, trumps the transcendental. Assertions of "non-overlapping magisteria" or descriptive vs proscriptive still demand the imposition a very Western of a physical/spiritual divide that is very difficult to reconcile with my people's teachings.

This viewpoint carries over into the use of scientific knowledge within and by the body politic. When I worked on a DOD funded project associated with a weapons lab, I was routinely questioned about the existential implications of my work. But, no one in the larger culture asks about the existential implications of work in population genetics. Genomic information is packaged in the cellophane of "universal truth."

So, let's look at your Siberian DNA. Native people are just one more set of immigrants. They have no greater or lesser moral claim on the land. They are no different than the borderland militias whining about the Spanish speaking brown people. And more damaging, accepting this forces the secular humanist framework onto our cultures. We divide our souls to serve those non-overlapping magisteria. There are those within our communities who correctly ask those of us in science and who use science to guide our decision making to look at the data with Native eyes.


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