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Old 09-23-2011, 11:01 PM   #1
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how do ppl behind desk calculate degree of indian blood?

greetings! before i present my question, let me begin by saying i have browsed through some of the questions other people had regarding tribal law, and was utterly disappointed at the responses that other people gave; particularly by people who already had an indian card and wanted to float their own boat by making themselves feel like the real deal just because they have the card and another person doesnt. any comments about the illegitimacy of my own indian heritage will be ignored. quite frankly, i just think its childish to give a smartbutt response when theres just an innocent person asking a question about indian law, regardless of how basic you insiders may think it may seem. that being said, without further ado, ill go ahead and present my question(s) and hope atleast 1 person can act like an adult and provide some positive feedback.

first off, im sure im not the only one who "chuckles" at the fact that blood degrees are calculated by looking at your parents paperwork. i understand that if u have 1 father who is enrolled as a full blood of a certain tribe, and a mother who is not tribal, then you are automatically issued as 1/2 of your fathers tribe. plain and simple. this has been the procedure for many years. i have a Ph.D in genetics, and even a junior high student knows that we unless you stab someone with a needle, put their blood in a stigmatic tropolator, and let the machine tell you what your blood composition is, until that day comes, all we have is paperwork. that is the law and world we have to live by. on with my question......

i am from a civilized tribe and yes i am the "real deal". i have super dark red skin and long black silky hair. i even have slow pronounciation like some of the stereotypical movie indians, and my family all speaks our tribal language. i have found my original ancestor on the rolls and have mailed in all of my birth certificates connecting myself as a biological decendant of my enrolled ancestor. there are no issues that will prevent me from being enolled, as i am entitled to it by nearly every article of the tribal constitution. i am currently awaiting my indian tribal card to come in the mail. i will be the only indian within the last 4 generations to be enrolled (they chose not to), which is no problem as far as the enrollment is concerned. my tribe does not care if my parents, grandparents, etc.....were not enrolled. all that matters is that the ORIGINAL enrollee was documented and i have shown the lineage to him/her. along with my question......

since you understand my situation, im sure you have made the inferance that my question is reguarding blood degree. since i am 4 generations away from the original enrollee, obviously i am ATLEAST his percentage divided by 4. also, my tribe does not have a blood quantum, so i cannot be denied on basis of quantum either.

QUESTION # 1- HOW DO THE PEOPLE SITTING BEHIND THE DESK CALCULATE MY BLOOD DEGREE ALL THE WAY FROM 4 GENERATIONS AGO? DO THEY JUST AUTOMATICALLY ISSUE ME THE BARE MINIMUM OF 1/4 SINCE I AM 4 GENERATIONS AWAY FROM A DOCUMENTED FULL BLOOD?? I CALLED THE TRIBE AND ASKED THEM THIS, AND ALL THEY WOULD TELL ME IS THAT THEY HAVE A SPECIAL WAY AND AFTER I GET MY CARD I HAVE 30 DAYS TO FILE AN APPEAL ON MY BLOOD QUANTUM HATH I DISAGREE WITH IT.


QUESTION # 2- SINCE MY TRIBE HAS NO BLOOD QUANTUM AND CANNOT DENY ANYONE ON THE BASIS OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH BLOOD, THEN WHY DOES MY DEGREE OF BLOOD MATTER IN THE FIRST PLACE? ILL BE IN THE TRIBE EITHER WAY.

QUESTION # 3- I UNDERSTAND THAT A CDIB AND TRIBAL CARD ARE 2 DIFFERENT THINGS WHEN IT COMES TO THE CIVILIZED TRIBES. I KNOW YOU CAN GET A TRIBAL CARD IN AS LITTLE AS A WEEK IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A CDIB CARD FROM THE BIA STATING YOU PART OF SOME OTHER TRIBE AS WELL (NOT GOING TO GET INTO THE DUAL-ENROLLEMENT DISCUSSION). MY QUESTION, SINCE I AM JUST NOW GETTING MY CDIB and TRIBAL CITIZENSHIP CARD, WILL ALL MY PAPERWORK BE PROCESSED AT THE TRIBAL OFFICE? WILL THEY VERIFY EVERYTHING THERE OR JUST SEE THAT MY NAME IS ON THE ROLLS AND THEN SEND MY CDIB APPLICATION OFF TO SOME BIA OFFICE FOR THEM TO CALCULATE THE BLOOD DEGREE? IM ACTUALLY CONFUSED AS TO WHICH AUTHORITY, EXACTLY, WILL BE EXAMINING MY PAPERWORK.

P.S.- I UNDERSTAND THAT THE BIGGEST STEP FOR INDIANS WAS GETTING TRIBAL SOVERENITY AND ABLE TO ESTABLISH OUR OWN LAWS AND MANIPULATE OUR OWN CITIZENSHIP POLICIES ETC.....BUT I HAVE NEVER AND WILL NEVER RESPECT INDIAN LAW DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY CREATED BY THE WHITE MAN. I AM READY TO GET THE CARD AND MOVE ON WITH MY LIFE AND STOP WITNESSING THESE WHITE PPL WITH RED HAIR, BLUE EYES, AND FRECKLES CONTINUE TO REAP THE BENEFITS THAT WERENT MEANT FOR ME, YET THEY GET IT AND I DONT JUST BECAUSE THEY MAILED IN THEIR PAPERWORK. I AM GENETICALLY, SPIRITUALLY, MENTALLY, PHYSICALLY, EMOTIONALLY, INDIAN WITH OR WITHOUT THE CARD.

THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING QUESTIONS 1 AND 2 AND 3. HAVE A NICE DAY AND MAY CREATOR GRANT MANY BLESSINGS UPON YOU.
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:46 AM   #2
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:55 AM   #3
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:10 PM   #4
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Wihtout telling us "your tribe" we cannot help, since everyone has there own ways. Please be exact and we can help.
its the choctaw nation. the big one in oklahoma who has a white man for a chief. yes i know my screenname says cherokee champion lol. i am just a lil bit cherokee but i am enrolling myself as a choctaw. thanks alot my iowa fried.

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Old 09-26-2011, 08:29 PM   #5
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Perhaps i should edit the title of my thread to "how do they calculate blood degrees cards for ppl whose parents are not enrolled".

just trying to understand the system. any help is greatly appreciated, as it will be a few more months before my card comes in the mail.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:06 PM   #6
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its the choctaw nation. the big one in oklahoma who has a white man for a chief. yes i know my screenname says cherokee champion lol. i am just a lil bit cherokee but i am enrolling myself as a choctaw. thanks alot my iowa fried.
Seems to me you sound a bit prejudiced and maybe a bit bitter ! It also seems that to be "Chief" of the Choctaw Tribe , he would have to be a tribal member , which makes him Choctaw....not white. Something you will also be when you get your "card". Seems you think you've been "missing out" on something you think is due you .
The Tribe will go through the records of all the percentages of your family , and by doing that they will determine if and how much Choctaw blood you have.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:35 PM   #7
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:02 AM   #8
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:18 PM   #9
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Seems to me you sound a bit prejudiced and maybe a bit bitter ! It also seems that to be "Chief" of the Choctaw Tribe , he would have to be a tribal member , which makes him Choctaw....not white. Something you will also be when you get your "card". Seems you think you've been "missing out" on something you think is due you .

The Tribe will go through the records of all the percentages of your family , and by doing that they will determine if and how much Choctaw blood you have.
well well well, look at what we have here. another card holder who is bashing a non-card holder. what a shame.

Wardancer- you obviously did not read the original post, and you obviously have never met nor seen the chief of the choctaw nation. he is a white man.

The question that cherokee champion asked was how do cdib authorities calculate your blood quantum BASED ON THE FACT THAT YOUR PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS DID NOT HAVE A CDIB. He is asking how which person will they derive his blood measurement from and how they will do it. The answer is that it must be derived from the original ancestor 4 generations ago, assuming that nobody else was enrolled. Cherokee may very well be a full blood, but he is only able to proove 1/4 of choctaw lineage seeing as though the only person that the officials can go by is his original ancestors blood degree.

why did you give his a math chart? that was not the question. we can all do simple math. you, wardancer, are whats wrong with the modern indian community and indian law. you (and people like you) have been enrolled your entire life, and you absolutely no acknowledgement, recognition, or respect to the fact that there are full blood Indians out there who do NOT have an Indian card, simply because their last name is not on the rolls or their parents opted out of receiving tribal benefits due for numerous person reasons. You have no idea what its like for people who do not have an Indian card, because youve had it your entire life. Your presence on these messages boards is solely to "toot your own horn" and make yourself feel more legitimate just because you have a piece of paper and someone else doesnt. You have become so illucidated, brainwashed, and hypnotized by the original remnants of Indian law that you overlook reality and develope your own inferiority complex against those Indians who do not fall under the same law as you.

of course u are a native american. u were born in the united states. anyone who is born in the united states is automatically a native american. shaquille oneill, bill clinton, tiger woods, justin beiber, hulk hogan, snoop dogg are ALL native americans. u sure as hell aint no American Indian and u never will be.

so u understand that having an Indian card and being in a tribe has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with having Indian blood. it has to do with filling out an application and informing a local tribe that you have birth certificate that says your ancestor had a cerain last name. the majority of people in Oklahoma who have Indian cards are NOT Indians. they are of european, african, and asian decent. until technology enables you to go to a doctor, have him stab you with a needle, put ur blood in a scientific machine, and let the machine tell you that your blood make-up is Indian blood, you have no real proof. wake up lil girl. all you are is lil kiddie with a piece of paper. that paper you have is not proof that you are an indian, and its definately......defiantely.....not proof that you have pride. all it signifies is that you have tricced a tribal government into thinking you deserve something bkuz your last name "might" be the same last name as one of their original members. sure, i can sit down here and blame my ancestor for "dropping the ball" and not choosing to put my last name on the rolls, but in reality, each and every day i tell myself that its people like you who have an Indian card for mental reasons. you have the card bkuz you are not mentally capable of making it in the real world. you couldnt last 1 day in the real world without your lil piece of paper indian card. i was originally only trying to be tribal so i could have the lil piece of paper to flash at people like you do on a daily basis and make them think you are special; but you actually are special. thats why you have it and i dont. you are not mentally capable of making it in the real world. thats why you have an Indian card and i dont. not bkuz of your blood. not bkuz of your heritage or ancestry.

you have no sympathy for people who do not have an indian card, bkuz were automatically born with it and do not understand what we have to go thru bkuz we do not have it. my last name is Froglegs, and its not on the rolls, so im not allowed to be a member of any tribe. i have to pay over 500 dollars per month in health insurance, all bkuz i don thave an indian card. i have to pay over 200 dollars annually for my car tag, all bkuz i dont have an indian card. i have to pay full tax and full price on everything, and you dont have to pay for any of those things, all bkuz u have a lil 3 inch piece of paper. you get to just breeze through life bkuz u have that lil piece of paper. you have never experienced any pain whatsoever. you live a very rich, holy, white, painless lifestyle all bkuz u have that lil piece of paper. how would you like it if u had to sit bacc and watch white ppl get everything for free, while you had to pay full price for everything? thats no different than what you "paper indians" are doin to me and my homies and everyone else who does not have the card. you wouldnt last 5 minutes in a real hood where ppl are poor and have no indian benefits. to me, you are not even an american, bkuz u dont have to pay for anything like the rest of americans do. you paper indians are just a rich, holy, hatefull, painless lil paper gang. the day you have to pay full price for everything like all americans, then u will be a real american. but until that day comes, u aint even an american to me.just someone who was born luccy enough to have a certain last name. im gonna change my last name to yours and then go get an indian card bkuz obviously yours is on the rolls. im seriously gonna do that. im seriously gonna commit fraud and steal your last name and reap the indian benefits from your ancestor and use their roll number. so u better be ready.........its coming. i have an oppointment with the judge tomarrow to get my last name changed to whatever i want. ive been strategically planning this fo a long time, but i havent made up my mind as to what i want my last name to be. all i kno is that it has to be a name thats on the indian rolls so i can get an indian card. now bkuz of you, ive made up my mind as to what my last name is gonna b. im gonna have the judge change my last name to yours just so i can reap the fradulantly reap the benefits from yo ancestor. haha. i win. u lose. now im on the "inside".

i bet you also think your "tribe" is a race of its own. you dont pull for indians as a whole. ive been all around indian country, and i know for a fact the only thing that differs from tribe to tribe is tradition and beliefs. we are all the same race of ppl. we are all indians. your not the real deal bkuz u dont support or give love to indians as a whole. all you care about is your specific set. real indians give love to all indians, not just their own tribe. when a person asks me what i represent, my answer is the same every damn time. i always say Oklahoma Indian. im from Oklahoma and i represent Oklahoma Indians. if u ever.....ever.....claim anything more specific than that,

West 44th and Council homie.

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Old 09-28-2011, 02:11 PM   #10
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well well well, look at what we have here. another card holder who is bashing a non-card holder. what a shame.

Wardancer- you obviously did not read the original post, and you obviously have never met nor seen the chief of the choctaw nation. he is a white man.

The question that cherokee champion asked was how do cdib authorities calculate your blood quantum BASED ON THE FACT THAT YOUR PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS DID NOT HAVE A CDIB. He is asking how which person will they derive his blood measurement from and how they will do it. The answer is that it must be derived from the original ancestor 4 generations ago, assuming that nobody else was enrolled. Cherokee may very well be a full blood, but he is only able to proove 1/4 of choctaw lineage seeing as though the only person that the officials can go by is his original ancestors blood degree.

why did you give his a math chart? that was not the question. we can all do simple math. you, wardancer, are whats wrong with the modern indian community and indian law. you (and people like you) have been enrolled your entire life, and you absolutely no acknowledgement, recognition, or respect to the fact that there are full blood Indians out there who do NOT have an Indian card, simply because their last name is not on the rolls or their parents opted out of receiving tribal benefits due for numerous person reasons. You have no idea what its like for people who do not have an Indian card, because youve had it your entire life. Your presence on these messages boards is solely to "toot your own horn" and make yourself feel more legitimate just because you have a piece of paper and someone else doesnt. You have become so illucidated, brainwashed, and hypnotized by the original remnants of Indian law that you overlook reality and develope your own inferiority complex against those Indians who do not fall under the same law as you.

of course u are a native american. u were born in the united states. anyone who is born in the united states is automatically a native american. shaquille oneill, bill clinton, tiger woods, justin beiber, hulk hogan, snoop dogg are ALL native americans. u sure as hell aint no American Indian and u never will be. ...........ok. so u understand that having an Indian card and being in a tribe has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with having Indian blood. it has to do with filling out an application and informing a local tribe that you have birth certificate that says your ancestor had a cerain last name. the majority of people in Oklahoma who have Indian cards are NOT Indians. they are of european, african, and asian decent. until technology enables you to go to a doctor, have him stab you with a needle, put ur blood in a scientific machine, and let the machine tell you that your blood make-up is Indian blood, you have no real proof. wake up lil girl. all you are is lil kiddie with a piece of paper. that paper you have is not proof that you are an indian, and its definately......defiantely.....not proof that you have pride. all it signifies is that you have tricced a tribal government into thinking you deserve something bkuz your last name "might" be the same last name as one of their original members. sure, i can sit down here and blame my ancestor for "dropping the ball" and not choosing to put my last name on the rolls, but in reality, each and every day i tell myself that its people like you who have an Indian card for mental reasons. you have the card bkuz you are not mentally capable of making it in the real world. you couldnt last 1 day in the real world without your lil piece of paper indian card. i was originally only trying to be tribal so i could have the lil piece of paper to flash at people like you do on a daily basis and make them think you are special; but you actually are special. thats why you have it and i dont. you are not mentally capable of making it in the real world. thats why you have an Indian card and i dont. not bkuz of your blood. not bkuz of your heritage or ancestry.

you have no sympathy for people who do not have an indian card, bkuz were automatically born with it and do not understand what we have to go thru bkuz we do not have it. my last name is Froglegs, and its not on the rolls, so im not allowed to be a member of any tribe. i have to pay over 500 dollars per month in health insurance, all bkuz i don thave an indian card. i have to pay over 200 dollars annually for my car tag, all bkuz i dont have an indian card. i have to pay full tax and full price on everything, and you dont have to pay for any of those things, all bkuz u have a lil 3 inch piece of paper. you get to just breeze through life bkuz u have that lil piece of paper. you have never experienced any pain whatsoever. you live a very rich, holy, white, painless lifestyle all bkuz u have that lil piece of paper. how would you like it if u had to sit bacc and watch white ppl get everything for free, while you had to pay full price for everything? thats no different than what you "paper indians" are doin to me and my homies and everyone else who does not have the card. you wouldnt last 5 minutes in a real hood where ppl are poor and have no indian benefits. to me, you are not even an american, bkuz u dont have to pay for anything like the rest of americans do. you paper indians are just a rich, holy, hatefull, painless lil paper gang. the day you have to pay full price for everything like all americans, then u will be a real american. but until that day comes, u aint even an american to me. just someone who was born luccy enough to have a certain last name. im gonna change my last name to yours and then go get an indian card bkuz obviously yours is on the rolls. then ill be a rich lil stucc up like u and ill get to laugh at ppl and make fun of ppl bkuz they dont have a last name that was on ther rolls. im seriously gonna do that. im seriously gonna commit fraud and steal your last name and reap the indian benefits from your ancestor and use their roll number. so u better be ready.........its coming. i have an oppointment with the judge tomarrow to get my last name changed to whatever i want. ive been strategically planning this fo a long time, but i havent made up my mind as to what i want my last name to be. all i kno is that it has to be a name thats on the indian rolls so i can get an indian card. now bkuz of you, ive made up my mind as to what my last name is gonna b. im gonna have the judge change my last name to yours just so i can reap the fradulantly reap the benefits from yo ancestor. haha. i win. u lose. now im on the "inside".

i bet you also think your "tribe" is a race of its own. you dont pull for indians as a whole. ive been all around indian country, and i know for a fact the only thing that differs from tribe to tribe is tradition and beliefs. we are all the same race of ppl. we are all indians. your not the real deal bkuz u dont support or give love to indians as a whole. all you care about is your specific set. real indians give love to all indians, not just their own tribe. when a person asks me what i represent, my answer is the same every damn time. i always say Oklahoma Indian. im from Oklahoma and i represent Oklahoma Indians. if u ever.....ever.....claim anything more specific than that, you aint nuttin but a wannabe bkuz u dont give love to the indian race as a whole. if ever cum to oklahoma and say your a "native" youre just gonna get beat...

West 44th and Council homie.

1. Your language is UN-acceptable on this site !
2. I replied to Cherokee Champion in a private message on his questions.
3. You do not know me or you wouldn't have said any of the things you've said about me.
4. knowing you have a tribal card and knowing you are Indian are two entirely different things , and I assure you I am Cheyenne.
5. I and many others would surely like to know how to receive all this free stuff you keep ranting about !
6. I have worked hard all my life as a union bricklayer , and am now retired. I am nowhere near "rich" . For a part of my life I was Chairman of the Board of an urban Indian center and have helped many urban Indians achieve tribal member status.
7. The chart I posted a link to is a standard chart like the BIA uses to determine degree of Indian blood.
8. I am from Oklahoma and all my family is from Oklahoma.
9 Truthfully , I have more non-carded Indian friends than carded Indian friends !
10. I also know several "full-bloods" that also don't have enough of any 1 tribe to be a tribal members !
So , personally I think your post is about 99% rubbish and the rest is trash !
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Old 09-28-2011, 02:14 PM   #11
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They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

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Old 09-28-2011, 03:02 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by REDSKIN4EVA View Post
well well well, look at what we have here. another card holder who is bashing a non-card holder. what a shame.

Wardancer- you obviously did not read the original post, and you obviously have never met nor seen the chief of the choctaw nation. he is a white man.
... if u ever.....ever.....claim anything more specific than that, you aint nuttin but a wannabe bkuz u dont give love to the indian race as a whole. if ever cum to oklahoma and say your a "native" youre just gonna get called a dumbass and get your a$$ beat...

West 44th and Council homie.

cross da line, yo fuccin a$$ is mine cuzz

Snipped for Brevity and to stop my eyes from bleeding over the homie speak.

Red, besides the obvious that you are behaving like an internet tough guy with an attitude that matches a wannabe homie and surpasses someone with a bad case of constipation you have failed to encompass that Indianess does not begin and end at the 49th parallel. Many First Nations have moved past declaring membership simply by BQ. I think before you start spewing off erroneous information (Beiber's citizenship for one) you might want to take the peanut butter out of your ears and put it in your mouth or in this case, tie your hands up so you can't type and simply do some basic research.

Cherokee Champion claims to hold a PhD in Genetics yet for some reason, poses a question that someone with their background should be able to answer on their own. Forgetting that the rest of his post is a little snooty and assumes those that respond will be cantankerous regarding the BQ debate. He asked a question and Wardancer answered it.

Now, you seem to be a little more annoyed that you are paying huge amounts of living costs that you feel you perhaps should not be paying. Have you done your research and submitted your paperwork because according to your dribble, just about anyone can get a card these days? Why not you? Your premise can not run both ways that it is easy to get a card and then it's too hard to get a card. Which one is it?

Just so you are aware, my people in their land claim and self government agreement gave up their cards, tax exemption, BQ and other assorted gimmes from the government and now we are a healthier, happier, self determined people with no monkey on their back. Perhaps your grandmother once told you, nothing is free in this life - it always comes with a price... what is your price these days?
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Old 09-28-2011, 03:31 PM   #13
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Oh and there is a difference between "bashing" and stating an opinion.
Amen!

Quote:
all bkuz u have a lil 3 inch piece of paper. you get to just breeze through life bkuz u have that lil piece of paper. you have never experienced any pain
If you are as knowledgeable about Indian Country as you claim, how can you make this statement. I don't think that a CDIB cards lets you breeze through life.
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Old 09-28-2011, 04:07 PM   #14
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By the way welcome to powwows.com !
Here's a link to a BQ chart:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepxrv5/n...ians/id23.html

Interesting chart...they need to extend it out some more...I have grandchildren with denominators in the /256 range. Hopefully they will hook up with someone else with a /256 and simplify the fractions a little.
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Old 09-28-2011, 04:22 PM   #15
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Clarification:
CDIB is a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood - a letter sized piece of paper issued by the BIA (US federal Bureau of Indian Affairs) available to ANYONE with an ancestor on the rolls of the any federally recognized tribe. As long as a continuous list paternity or maternity has been kept on record, usually through the tribe of original enrollment, a CDIB can be issued to an individual showing how much, or how little, Indian Blood is on record.

A tribal enrollment card, or certificate, is issued by the tribe where an individual is enrolled according to tribal law.

A CDIB less than 1/4 won't get you anything, other than access to IHS services if you live in "Indian Country". A CDIB of 1/4 or more will give you access to BIA services of which there are FEW!! It will NOT get you automatic enrollment into a tribe.
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Old 09-28-2011, 06:58 PM   #16
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Are CHEROKEE CHAMPION and REDSKIN4EVA the same person / ISP ?

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Old 09-28-2011, 09:01 PM   #17
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Are CHEROKEE CHAMPION and REDSKIN4EVA the same person / ISP ?
My thoughts exactly. Too many similarities in the writing style especially for someone who has a Phd.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:19 PM   #18
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I think toolbox could tell us that one :)
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:35 PM   #19
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Are CHEROKEE CHAMPION and REDSKIN4EVA the same person / ISP ?

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I think toolbox could tell us that one :)
According to my research they both connect to the same network access point, because this is in the public section of the site and they are both in the U.S. I'm not going to give away the exact location in the city where the server is.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:17 PM   #20
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They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





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Last edited by wardancer; 09-28-2011 at 10:20 PM.. Reason: too much info ! LOL
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