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-   -   Just Proved Shawnee Lineage! :) (http://forums.powwows.com/f114/just-proved-shawnee-lineage-61889/)

wolf_sister07 12-18-2011 06:36 PM

Just Proved Shawnee Lineage! :)
 
My family and I have been doing a lot of genealogy and have recently found that many generations back (not sure how many exactly right off) that we are related to Cornstalk who was Shawnee, I believe he led the Water Panther Clan. I was so happy that we found this! Ever since I was a young child I have heard family tales about having Native American blood in the family so proving this made me so excited. It is also believed that there may be Cherokee and Blackfoot in the family too, but we haven't yet proven it. If family stories are to be true, my great-great-grandmother would have been full Cherokee. I look forward to try to trace as much as we can and find more about my heritage.

subeeds 12-19-2011 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_sister07 (Post 1503728)
My family and I have been doing a lot of genealogy and have recently found that many generations back (not sure how many exactly right off) that we are related to Cornstalk who was Shawnee, I believe he led the Water Panther Clan. I was so happy that we found this! Ever since I was a young child I have heard family tales about having Native American blood in the family so proving this made me so excited. It is also believed that there may be Cherokee and Blackfoot in the family too, but we haven't yet proven it. If family stories are to be true, my great-great-grandmother would have been full Cherokee. I look forward to try to trace as much as we can and find more about my heritage.

It would seem that you didn't get a lot of information from this Grandmother http://www.powwows.com/gathering/sho...66#post1225266 before she passed. Too bad. I did a quick google search of Shawnee and did not see a Water Panther Clan listed. I did see the name Cornstalk listed back in the 17th century. It's nice you found "family", but I will say that with your talk of Indian names and spirit guides, you sound much more like a new ager, than a Native. There are some things that Natives keep private, among themselves, and you go and just put it all out there for the whole internet to see. Good luck with your research. For the Cherokee side, there are many rolls you can start with and it should be easy to find out the information you are seeking. Bear in mind that family tales are often just that-family tales that get often get passed down as truth.

comadre 12-19-2011 01:33 AM

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comadre 12-19-2011 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_sister07 (Post 1503728)
My family and I have been doing a lot of genealogy and have recently found that many generations back (not sure how many exactly right off) that we are related to Cornstalk who was Shawnee, I believe he led the Water Panther Clan. I was so happy that we found this! Ever since I was a young child I have heard family tales about having Native American blood in the family so proving this made me so excited. It is also believed that there may be Cherokee and Blackfoot in the family too, but we haven't yet proven it. If family stories are to be true, my great-great-grandmother would have been full Cherokee. I look forward to try to trace as much as we can and find more about my heritage.

wow pow wow visitor, it looks like there is a lot of different kinds of lineage in your family tree. And they are found so many generations back!That is a lot of research! So you did share with us how far back the Indian blood goes. Did you say how many generations does the Caucasian lineage go? And what in particular are those groups? I find family lineage an interesting topic sometimes.As for me when we did our genealogy we could trace all the way back to 1600.The genealogist was excited to learn we were Russian. But the funny thing is that we were not too excited to learn that-because we already knew it.
Have a good day.

wolf_sister07 12-19-2011 06:03 AM

@subeeds - No, sadly I didn't get much info from her. I was told the Water Panther Clan is the one that Tecumseh and the Prophet were thought to be part of. Most of my knowledge of Native customs and such I have learned from the few local new agers, the only people I have found who are willing to teach a non-Native around here. I haven't yet found anyone who would be willing to teach me a few of the old ways, it's understandable that many Natives want to keep them sacred amongst themselves and not teach outsiders. I know that most family stories are not pure truth, but it at least gives me a place to start searching for reference. I hope to be able to prove more soon, but even if I don't find any true lineage I am still happy to have found what I have.

@comadre - So far we have only traced the Shawnee back to Cornstalk, I'm not sure exactly how many generations back or to what year approximately right off. The rest of my family has been traced back to many immigrants, not sure what the oldest recorded is at the moment. The main Caucasian lines are French, Irish, and English.

pigheaded 12-19-2011 07:58 AM

Hey I'm part white. you think you can teach me the culture and the way of the white folk? I think it was my great great great great great great something or other. BTW if you want to learn Native stuff new agers are NOT the ones to learn from unless you want to look like a clown.

wolf_sister07 12-19-2011 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigheaded (Post 1503795)
Hey I'm part white. you think you can teach of the culture and the way of the white folk? I think it was my great great great great great great something or other. BTW he you want to learn Native stuff new ages as NOT the ones to near from unless you want to look like a clown.

I have to find someone who's willing to teach me first. There's no way I'll ever learn much beyond the basics since I didn't grow up with learning any of this. And knowing my luck, no matter what I learn I'll probably look like a wanna-be clown anyways. I just want to learn, I've always been interested as I said since I was a child, but I haven't found any Native who might teach me.

pigheaded 12-19-2011 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_sister07 (Post 1503797)
I have to find someone who's willing to teach me first. There's no way I'll ever learn much beyond the basics since I didn't grow up with learning any of this. And knowing my luck, no matter what I learn I'll probably look like a wanna-be clown anyways. I just want to learn, I've always been interested as I said since I was a child, but I haven't found any Native who might teach me.

well, that signature is gonna always make you a wannabe clown, you might want to ditch it. Also here is something I usually try to get folks to consider, your ancestors obviously concealed that info for 1 reason or another, so you might want to find out why, then you might want to determine what is more important to you, the wishes of you ancestors, or your wants and desires. Who are you honoring more, you! or your ancestors.

wolf_sister07 12-19-2011 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigheaded (Post 1503798)
well, that signature is gonna always make you a wannabe clown, you might want to ditch it. Also here is something I usually try to get folks to consider, your ancestors obviously concealed that info for 1 reason or another, so you might want to find out why, then you might want to determine what is more important to you, the wishes of you ancestors, or your wants and desires. Who are you honoring more, you! or your ancestors.

I had forgotten about that sig, I made this account when I was a lot younger and never gave it a second thought. Anyways, we aren't sure yet why the bloodline was concealed (not for a lack of trying), probably because of a Native and a white intermixing. And it's so far back that most have probably forgotten by now as well.

yaahl 12-19-2011 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_sister07 (Post 1503728)
My family and I have been doing a lot of genealogy and have recently found that many generations back (not sure how many exactly right off) that we are related to Cornstalk who was Shawnee, I believe he led the Water Panther Clan. I was so happy that we found this! Ever since I was a young child I have heard family tales about having Native American blood in the family so proving this made me so excited. It is also believed that there may be Cherokee and Blackfoot in the family too, but we haven't yet proven it. If family stories are to be true, my great-great-grandmother would have been full Cherokee. I look forward to try to trace as much as we can and find more about my heritage.

There's one thing I can never understand about folks that jump online and announced they found a lost forgotten First nation ancestor that they never seem to accompany such a statement with any level of detail beyond the .. "Oh goody, I can be part of the club now because I have a 234 year connection to someone." I'm even more befuddled that the same people expect us to embrace their claims without question and if we question even one sentence of it, we're the bad guys.

You claim your family has done the research yet you don't mention even cursory levels of detail such as, is the connection paternal or maternal? Many First Nations pass the heritage of a child through either the mother or father. Is the connection to Cornstalk a direct descendant or through a sibling? Because if you are a direct descendant, where has your family been for 234 years? If you are related through a sibling of his, then why not just state that relationship? Why embellish your connection to this man by your omissions? If your relationship to this man flows from the wrong parent, you may have no claim to his tribe at all.

This might help you understand why making a claim that you have not clarified might bring you some questions:

Quote:

The Story of the Two Brothers

The story tells of two Haida brothers who out of curiosity, traveled from Haida Gwaii, across the mainland to the Rocky Mountains. After travelling for some time to a place that is know known as Jasper, Alberta, one of the brothers found a spot that spoke to him. He remained in this area while his brother returned home to Haida Gwaii. A long time passed and the man who had returned home began missing his brother too much. He decided to go back and look for his brother. He followed the same route they had taken.

At the place where the two had parted ways he saw a house. He went up to the door and called out in Haida: “Naa hl gwaa nangis?” (“Is anybody inside?”). A woman’s voice from inside the house called back: “Aangaa. Kaajiihlaa”(“Yes. Come in.”). When he entered the house he found that the girl was his brother’s daughter. His brother had passed on some years before but had passed his ways on to his daughter.

It should be noted that it does not indicate Haida ownership or lineage. Haida Lineage is passed on through the mother’s side, therefore the daughter would not have inherited any lineage through her father or be considered Haida.

By Gwaai and Jaalen Edenshaw, 2011

Here's a hint about FN folks. We love to talk about our family connections. By a simple recitation of my family's names, clans and my relation to older ones, the listener can peg me right away as to my identity. When it comes to speaking about family connections to a FN person the devil, in this case, is in the details.

You have stated in your other posts that you made a buckskin dress for your grandmother for her funeral. You do realize that you have crossed many lines with your post in such that many FN folks have very specific funeral rites and ways in which they deal with their dead? Openly discussing specific funerals or arrangements is for most of them, something not usually done in public. But I have to ask, if your family isn't too sure what their family connection is to a FN is, how did you know what to do to follow a specific burial rite?

I mean come on, my own people are were having fits over the repatriation and burial of 350 soul's remains from museums and we had the best historians, elders and cultural keepers working on it. How did your family figure it out when all you have as you state, are New agers for information?

I'm not even going to get into a huge comment on your new agey signature line about wolves. However, I will say that using such a statement will leave you open to much ridicule and you will cease to be taken seriously. There have been a few people lately on this site that have announced their special animal totem. Remarkably, each one also has another connection to groups such as New agers, Wiccan and First Nation hobbyists as we see in Europe. It can't go without notice that these other connections are to groups who also believe that an animal totem is important. Yet, these folks instead of making their animal connection to the new agers et al, insist (or assume) that FN folks want to hear about it as if it is something we practise in a pan-Indian manner. These folks are taking little nuggets of information from all over the map and wrapping it all up in a nice package called, Indian religion. Why do these folks insist on putting that crap on here instead of the new age sites that are in abundance on the web?

You should go read the thread on the 2011 census, you'll find why your claim to maybe being Blackfoot/Cherokee gives rise for some eyebrow raising from the folks on here.

wolf_sister07 12-19-2011 10:07 AM

@yaahl

I'm not interested in the tribal rights or anything like that, I just want to learn the culture. Even without the actual bloodline proven, I would still want to learn. Pulling up the chart that traces it, Cornstalk is 8 greats back from me on the paternal side and we are related directly to him. As for my grandmother, we weren't doing a specific burial rite, we were trying to honor her wishes for the funeral. The Blackfoot/Cherokee is only family tales, but we thought it would be interesting if there was any fact to them or not.

yaahl 12-19-2011 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_sister07 (Post 1503818)
@yaahl

I'm not interested in the tribal rights or anything like that, I just want to learn the culture. Even without the actual bloodline proven, I would still want to learn. Pulling up the chart that traces it, Cornstalk is 8 greats back from me on the paternal side and we are related directly to him. As for my grandmother, we weren't doing a specific burial rite, we were trying to honor her wishes for the funeral. The Blackfoot/Cherokee is only family tales, but we thought it would be interesting if there was any fact to them or not.

So I ask again, if you are a direct descendant, where has your family been for 234 years? Why do the Shawnee not know about you and include you in their histories?

You know when I read your profile and your old signature, you sound like a cultural misfit. You claim to be also learning to be a medicine woman. Now would that be a new age one, a western medicine one or some other type? You see, your omissions again, leave people with the impression that you are more than you say. You want people to give you 12 hides and other assorted items so that you can make a couple of outfits and donate them. A nice gesture but don't you think that if you can't fulfill your own wish to donate something that you shouldn't be looking to others on an internet site to do it for you? Why are you not doing some fund raising at this centre? Why not canvas your family for help? Are you relying on the misconception that we'll share with anyone that asks? Sounds like you want a few freebies for your reenactment group.

If you belong to a reenactment group, then why not go to them for help with procuring these hides? You also say in your profile that you teach people about native culture. Yet, you freely admit that you have no one to teach you. What gives on the discrepancy? How can you teach something that you have not been taught?

Besides the notion that you require 12 hides (just how small are the deer in MN anyway?) for just two outfits seems a little on the "over egging the cake" type of request.

So you say you want to learn the culture but your motive isn't to claim tribal rights. I'm going to stop here and let your brain catch up with what you just said.

Joe's Dad 12-19-2011 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_sister07 (Post 1503797)
I have to find someone who's willing to teach me first. There's no way I'll ever learn much beyond the basics since I didn't grow up with learning any of this. And knowing my luck, no matter what I learn I'll probably look like a wanna-be clown anyways. I just want to learn, I've always been interested as I said since I was a child, but I haven't found any Native who might teach me.

What the heck are the 'basics of being NDN'????

pigheaded 12-19-2011 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1503844)
What the heck are the 'basics of being NDN'????

M

Ug

How

Any more stupid questions?
:hysterica

yaahl 12-19-2011 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1503844)
What the heck are the 'basics of being NDN'????

Well if you're Mohawk it's Barricades 101 and if you're Haida it's Basic Chaining to a Logging Truck.

You can get an Advanced Degree if you take both courses.

Eagle Plumes 12-19-2011 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1503844)
What the heck are the 'basics of being NDN'????

I think its havin the best snaggin wagon. If im wrong please steer me in the rite direction. Ima fast learner :quiet:

yaahl 12-19-2011 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle Plumes (Post 1503849)
I think its havin the best snaggin wagon. If im wrong please steer me in the rite direction. Ima fast learner :quiet:

Figures you'd go there...LOL

You always go there...:wink_smil

pigheaded 12-19-2011 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle Plumes (Post 1503849)
I think its havin the best snaggin wagon. If im wrong please steer me in the rite direction. Ima fast learner :quiet:

Got an old pickem up with an even older turtle shell on it. Is that cool enough? :devil2:
Lol

Eagle Plumes 12-19-2011 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yaahl (Post 1503852)
Figures you'd go there...LOL

You always go there...:wink_smil

Bow's head do I hear the Auntie tone? lol teasing I think thats why im always on the naughty list lol

yaahl 12-19-2011 11:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The OP could always go and borrow this book.. for the basics that is...


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