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Old 12-20-2011, 10:50 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by pigheaded View Post
Let's date RDNKJ, which came first 78's 45's or RDNKJ? LOL
Back in the day we had to learn to be NDN by actually going to reservations. We didn't have youtube or DVD's, no BluRay or DVR's, we walked up hill in the snow both ways to get there, and we were happpy about [email protected] We didn't have things like cars, or buses, we had no food, we eat grass and we loved it.
So i was thinking , "What came first? The shicken or the egg?".

http://vinylville.tripod.com/spindoc.html

I was thinking about the 33 1/3rpm vinyl.
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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

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Old 12-20-2011, 11:30 AM   #62
Ugh. As. If.
 
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Originally Posted by Joe's Dad View Post
Don't both of u think you should share in the good news of discovering lineage...from Pennsylvania to Minnyappleissss?????
yeah i got her good news right here


just kidding everyone



this is me --->
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:33 AM   #63
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I can see yous guys smoke signals now... they would be hey neighbor you got any paper? or when your ole ladies went into town it would be sos out of spam
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:35 AM   #64
Ugh. As. If.
 
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SORRY>SUBMITTED TOO SOON.

cont...what you do within your home and family in regards to those things that surround courting, marriage,pregnancy,birth,death and grieving and burial,holidays,worship,ect,ect,ect(those important markers in a lifetime) this is your heritage. Ask yourself who is my Mother, Father, siblings, husband? What kinds of things do we do traditionally that defines who we are as a family group? There is your very intimate heritage in which you already have with your loved ones.
Some folks on here have tried to explain to you that these things are very private among family members and this would be why they have suggested that they not be talked about openly.
As for the white heritage/lineage that I asked about.I get the impression that you are running away from your "whiteness" as if it is something to be ashamed of.It's not.
There are heros, warriors, flashy people and humble ones in every peoples history and heritage.There are right and wrong found in all cultures and there is the sacred found in every heritage as well. You have everything you need to fulfill your cravings right in the very world you were placed in by the creator.Don't turn your eyes from what was given to you because you are looking for something else lest you realize when you are old that you....missed it while still looking.
I bring up the Caucasion lineage because it seems to me that according to what you have reported, there is plenty of it to draw your rich heritage from.
You are tenacious indeed as you are still here!I hope you tenaciously run from the new age junk as it is a hodge podge of made up supposed cultural stuff.Every human is more deserving of greater than hodge podge.
peace
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Sometimes I just can't keep my mouth shut, so here goes:

I guess I will never quite understand how discovering an ancestor from so many generations back is such a life-changing event for some. To me it would seem that anything beyond about 3 generations back would be an interesting familial curiosity, but little more. My (father’s) people first came to the Americas in the late 1600’s – early 1700’s. If I discovered that I had an NDN ancestor from 300+ years ago – well, I would probably go buy a book or two about whatever tribe he/she was from and learn a few basic things about them. Were they farmers? Sea-farers? Hunter-gatherers? Was their language Athabaskan? Iroquoian?... But that’d be about it. ‘Cause that’s who a long-ago ancestor was, but it isn’t who I am.

If NDN symbolism/totem animals started showing up in my life – I wouldn’t recognize it/them for what they were – because that symbolism would be meaningless to me – ‘cause I’m not NDN and those symbols/animals would have nothing to do with my background, upbringing, religion, the culture in which I was raised, etc.. I don’t understand why G-d/Creator would send me messages that were, in effect, 300+ years out of date. I would think He would want me to understand any messages sent, and so would send msgs. understandable to me as I am now.

I am of German, French, Scots-Irish and English extraction. I could move to Germany, France or Great Britain, and even gain citizenship there – but I can never truly be German, French or British. People from those countries might recognize some of the foods I eat, or the odd custom here and there – but if I tried to claim to be German, French, English, etc…well, they’d (metaphorically) pat me on the head and tell me that my g-g-g-g-?-granddaddy might’ve been one of them, but I’m not. I.e., people brought up in a small town in NDN country Oklahoma just don’t grow up to be Frenchmen. That’s true the world over.

I don’t understand why so many people who discover NDN ancestry gravitate towards the new agers. Especially in the computer age. The ancestor’s tribe isn’t from where you live now? Get on your computer and find the tribe’s official website and proceed from there. Or, if that’s too difficult, contact the official website/office of a nearby tribe. See if anyone there knows anyone, or has contact information for the tribe you’re looking for.

I’ll probably take some flak for my next statement, but…

There is a huge amount of scholarship out there about the NDN nations. Don’t go to new age websites or buy new age books to explain NDNs to you. Check out websites like, for example, the one for the University of Oklahoma Press (or any number of other University presses). You’ll be able to find all sorts of “reputable” information.

Of course, books won’t teach anyone how to be NDN (or anything else for that matter) but then, a common thread among the people who show up here after discovering distant NDN ancestors is that they “aren’t trying to be NDN”…they’re just trying “to learn a little bit about their ancestors’ culture.” If that were truly the case, well…that’s just not that steep of a hill to climb. And while there are certainly plenty of inaccuracies in the scholarly publications - they're still way, way better sources of information than new age publications.

And that is my long-winded blathering about things for today!

sheesh we was just starting to have fun with the wannabe and youz shut it down with a reality check

jus kiddin, both posts were well spoken
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:36 PM   #65
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Here's a little story about some new agers that tried to so the tobacco thing on us...


Anyway, this couple who worked for some do-gooder organization who was all about "au natural healing" approached some of the band council to get permission to tag along on one of our community gatherings at the fish camps. So I got tagged for going with them to make sure they didn't get lost. In their effort to "commune" with the elders. They invited some of the elders to travel to the camp in their nice, new, shiny SUV. I said, if you are taking elders, you might want to put a bucket in the back for them. The lady said, "Oh no, they won't need that, we have special crystals and herbs in the vehicle to keep them from needing a bucket." I said, "Fine, suit yourself, hope it works." And proceeded to hop in the front seat with the fella. She also told the elders that there was to be no smoking in the car, as tobacco was sacred and has to be used in a good way blah blah blah... the elders all said... we don't smoke.

Now, if anyone has ever been on the cut and logging roads in the north, they tend to be a bit bumpy and narrow. And... it takes forever to get anywhere... so here we were with Me, the couple and three elders stuck in an SUV for three hours...on a cut road in the Yukon. The New agers must have peed themselves thinking that they had an undivided time with real, Indian elders!

Then it started...

Anyone from the north knows that the elders prefer to chew rather than smoke tobacco and that unlike our plains brethren, tobacco isn't one of the central medicine plants for us. We have others.

And... anyone in the north knows that if you have an elder in your car that chews.. you should have a bucket for them to spit in otherwise they'll think it's ok to just spit on your car's floor.

So... for three hours... all three elders, laughing and chewing and spitting all over the floor of this nice, new, shiny, SUV.

The lady new ager was having a fit at the spitting and the elders using her car as a spitoon... she yells, "Why didn't you tell me about this?" I said, "I did, you said your crystals would stop them. Guess they are broken." Then I said, "But that's ok, you'll have time to get them fixed before we have to leave again and drive back down."


I love it!!!! Did you manage not to laugh in their faces? I doubt if I could have kept a straight face.

Edited to add: I did notice that the OP has removed the new age signature. :)
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:20 AM   #66
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Edited to add: I did notice that the OP has removed the new age signature. :)
um.where is op?
Miss original poster-are you still here?
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:08 AM   #67
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um.where is op?
Miss original poster-are you still here?
'Prolly not. If I had to go back that many generations to find Ndn, I wouldn't worry about it. I've noticed that people seem to think that if they show up, say "Hi, I'm half or whatever Cherokee or the fast growing in popularity Blackfoot" they will get some sort of gold key to the room where the secret to being a basic Ndn (whatever the heck that is) is kept.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:30 AM   #68
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I love it!!!! Did you manage not to laugh in their faces? I doubt if I could have kept a straight face.

Edited to add: I did notice that the OP has removed the new age signature. :)
I didn't laugh...I did laugh however on the way back when their SUV got stuck in the small creek we had to cross over and they were both up to their knees in creek mud trying to push it out...the man said.."I'll go for help, you stay here." Granma Annie said after he left, "Do you think we should have told him that there are Grizzlies out?" Granpa Moose said, "Maybe he has a crystal for that too." Granma Phylis said, "I guess if the bear poops out a crystal we'll know if it worked or not." Then Granpa Moose notices that he left a can of Deet behind and says, "Oh, he won't have to worry about any bears, the flies will get him first. Hope he has a crystals for them too." The woman decides that she needs to go find her husband and leaves us sitting in the car.

We never did see them after that, along came one of the other families and we all squished into the back for a bumpy ride home with a bucket in the back. The new agers were last seen high-tailing back to British California down the Al-Can.
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Last edited by yaahl; 12-21-2011 at 01:33 AM..
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:14 AM   #69
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I didn't laugh...I did laugh however on the way back when their SUV got stuck in the small creek we had to cross over and they were both up to their knees in creek mud trying to push it out...the man said.."I'll go for help, you stay here." Granma Annie said after he left, "Do you think we should have told him that there are Grizzlies out?" Granpa Moose said, "Maybe he has a crystal for that too." Granma Phylis said, "I guess if the bear poops out a crystal we'll know if it worked or not." Then Granpa Moose notices that he left a can of Deet behind and says, "Oh, he won't have to worry about any bears, the flies will get him first. Hope he has a crystals for them too." The woman decides that she needs to go find her husband and leaves us sitting in the car.

We never did see them after that, along came one of the other families and we all squished into the back for a bumpy ride home with a bucket in the back. The new agers were last seen high-tailing back to British California down the Al-Can.



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Old 12-22-2011, 06:09 PM   #70
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I did not go thru all the posts. But cornstalk has alot of descendants today, The Shawnee was around the Chreokee from time to time. The Shawnee also traveled alot as well. Was you able to trace back to virginia? I can get you in contact with the Cornstalk descendants if you want, The Ohio Shawnee has been known to keep really good records on the Shawnee and the descendants. If you want to get in contact with the other Cornstalk descendants just send me a private message because I do not want to pass their contact info thru here.

For the new age stuff, Alot of it is taken from other cultures like druids etc. Some of that stuff is very dangerous also such as blood root will permantly scar you for life, really bad stuff. Most of the East coast people tend to stay away from the old time medicine stuff and I do not know of anyone of the East coast messing with new age things.

The reason alot of people have lost connection with their native side is due to boarding schools and the various other cultures coming in along with the various Europeanized natives migrating from place to place and of course the tribes just being moved around. There was also alot of Tribes merging with other tribes. We thought of tribes as a family, if we married into our own tribe is was incest, So for us to marry we had to find someone outside our tribe and this is why alot of descendants will trace back to more than just a few tribes.

My expertise tends to be more in the Va, Nc, Sc, Maryland, Georgia, Tennesse, Kentucky, Ohio areas with some knowledge of New york since the saponi and tutelo went to New York and there was treaties between New York and Virginia. Minesota is alil out of my range.

What we usually like to do is work really hard on our family history, traceing from ourself and working our way back, after we got our family tree well documented, then we start researching on the tribes themself. Shawnee has alot of records to go thru, so I'm guessing about 1 year gets you into the basic understanding of the history. After this start contacting college professors and archiologists to get a actual backed up history to go along with all the written records. start collecting historical maps and learning the trading paths. Never let other tribes teach you because not all tribes are the same and you'll get miseducated. You must learn of your ancestorial tribe only.

Do not look to pow wows to get your native history because the stuff at pow wows is often borrowed and has nothing to do with your actual tribe. So many people today in the native communities have been going toward the flash colored regalias, borrowed dances, dressing plains, which I myself am not into the whole borrowing other tribes stuff just to look more Tv indian or to be more accepted.

I'm half asleep but trying to best explaine lol so just bare with me lol. Ok with your own family history work from yourself back. but for your tribe history work from the furtherest back and then move foward to present. Never research tribe history from present back. The best way to honor your ancestors is to make sure everything is theirs and acurate. You want to represent your heritage in a way it honors your ancestors not other tribes. Never research the tribe etc until you have gotten your family history documentry well.

When people ask what you are, do not say indian, instead give the name of your tribe, when you say indian or native american your speaking for a whole country, you are not a whole country, your a family group, family groups are not a race no more than your surname is a race. So lean more toward using just your tribal "family" name. Never think of a tribe as a race. Tribes are not a race, they are a family. Once you start understanding that you will start feeling closer to your ancestorial heritage.

Language would probally be the next thing to start learning after all the above, language preservation is very important. Get a professional Linguistic to try to help you with this.

If a person says they are shawnee, in a kind maner ask them how they descend from the tribe also, some people just say it but do not know how they descend. Also do not believe what just any tribe will tell you, some tribes will add their own stuff and borrow stuff without telling you it was something added or borrowed. You can not truely honor yourself or ancestors with borrowed and added stuff.

There is no way to be a native american, no way to be indian. Every tribe is different just as every person is different. Listening to rap does not take away who your ancestors are, a white guy wearing baggy jeans does not make him black nor does a black guy wearing a cowboy hat make him white. What makes you a descendant of a tribe is your family tree. A philipino going to a Lakota powwow and dressing in regalia does not make the person a lakota no more than a Seminole going to a Lakota pow wow make him a lakota. You are who your ancestors are.

I'm totally half asleep so sorry if I rambled too much or if you could not follow along, just pm me and I'll get you in contact with cornstalk's descendants if you want to connect with them or need help with your family history.

Last edited by ECSN; 12-22-2011 at 06:11 PM..
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:45 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ECSN View Post
I did not go thru all the posts. But cornstalk has alot of descendants today, The Shawnee was around the Chreokee from time to time. The Shawnee also traveled alot as well. Was you able to trace back to virginia? I can get you in contact with the Cornstalk descendants if you want, The Ohio Shawnee has been known to keep really good records on the Shawnee and the descendants. If you want to get in contact with the other Cornstalk descendants just send me a private message because I do not want to pass their contact info thru here.

For the new age stuff, Alot of it is taken from other cultures like druids etc. Some of that stuff is very dangerous also such as blood root will permantly scar you for life, really bad stuff. Most of the East coast people tend to stay away from the old time medicine stuff and I do not know of anyone of the East coast messing with new age things.

The reason alot of people have lost connection with their native side is due to boarding schools and the various other cultures coming in along with the various Europeanized natives migrating from place to place and of course the tribes just being moved around. There was also alot of Tribes merging with other tribes. We thought of tribes as a family, if we married into our own tribe is was incest, So for us to marry we had to find someone outside our tribe and this is why alot of descendants will trace back to more than just a few tribes.

My expertise tends to be more in the Va, Nc, Sc, Maryland, Georgia, Tennesse, Kentucky, Ohio areas with some knowledge of New york since the saponi and tutelo went to New York and there was treaties between New York and Virginia. Minesota is alil out of my range.

What we usually like to do is work really hard on our family history, traceing from ourself and working our way back, after we got our family tree well documented, then we start researching on the tribes themself. Shawnee has alot of records to go thru, so I'm guessing about 1 year gets you into the basic understanding of the history. After this start contacting college professors and archiologists to get a actual backed up history to go along with all the written records. start collecting historical maps and learning the trading paths. Never let other tribes teach you because not all tribes are the same and you'll get miseducated. You must learn of your ancestorial tribe only.

Do not look to pow wows to get your native history because the stuff at pow wows is often borrowed and has nothing to do with your actual tribe. So many people today in the native communities have been going toward the flash colored regalias, borrowed dances, dressing plains, which I myself am not into the whole borrowing other tribes stuff just to look more Tv indian or to be more accepted.

I'm half asleep but trying to best explaine lol so just bare with me lol. Ok with your own family history work from yourself back. but for your tribe history work from the furtherest back and then move foward to present. Never research tribe history from present back. The best way to honor your ancestors is to make sure everything is theirs and acurate. You want to represent your heritage in a way it honors your ancestors not other tribes. Never research the tribe etc until you have gotten your family history documentry well.

When people ask what you are, do not say indian, instead give the name of your tribe, when you say indian or native american your speaking for a whole country, you are not a whole country, your a family group, family groups are not a race no more than your surname is a race. So lean more toward using just your tribal "family" name. Never think of a tribe as a race. Tribes are not a race, they are a family. Once you start understanding that you will start feeling closer to your ancestorial heritage.

Language would probally be the next thing to start learning after all the above, language preservation is very important. Get a professional Linguistic to try to help you with this.

If a person says they are shawnee, in a kind maner ask them how they descend from the tribe also, some people just say it but do not know how they descend. Also do not believe what just any tribe will tell you, some tribes will add their own stuff and borrow stuff without telling you it was something added or borrowed. You can not truely honor yourself or ancestors with borrowed and added stuff.

There is no way to be a native american, no way to be indian. Every tribe is different just as every person is different. Listening to rap does not take away who your ancestors are, a white guy wearing baggy jeans does not make him black nor does a black guy wearing a cowboy hat make him white. What makes you a descendant of a tribe is your family tree. A philipino going to a Lakota powwow and dressing in regalia does not make the person a lakota no more than a Seminole going to a Lakota pow wow make him a lakota. You are who your ancestors are.

I'm totally half asleep so sorry if I rambled too much or if you could not follow along, just pm me and I'll get you in contact with cornstalk's descendants if you want to connect with them or need help with your family history.
Correct me if I'm wrong but would not a person go to the tribes in present day to find out information?

Such as the Absentee Shawnee here in Oklahoma or the Eastern Shawnee also here in Oklahoma...
Both have kept their Traditions and have plenty of Elders that could answer alot of questions.
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