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Old 01-21-2004, 01:12 AM   #61
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well one thing is for sure-the best way to ruin a pow wow is to card,use SCIC for example-does anyone remenber that pow wow 10 yrs back before they started carding? The arena was packed with dancers and competition was tight-the dancers with skills were there. Now, they pissed so many dancers off with the card thing that the arena is barren.

I actually had an incident happen there that really bothered me. I am light,don't wear turkey feathers , but I am enrolled-well when I went to register there was a large group of dancers around the table trying to register one of the registrars said out loud "Hey, does everyone here carry a card, we are not checking, we just want you to say yes" everyone said yes. After that, the same lady came up to me got in my face and said "where's your card?" I was pissed because I knew she was trying to prove some kind of racist point. So, in a well contained manner, I pulled my card out like nothing and showed it to her. She stared at it intensely, and kept looking back at me up and down. There was nothing she could do but let me register. This continues to happen every year, I only keep going because it seems a friend or family member is on head staff every year plus there's not much else going on other than Schitmitzun. Every year, I get carded but several of my friends who don't have cards but are much darker than me do not. just because someone has brown skin, doesn't mean there Indian or more Indian than me-Last year I went with a friend of mine who is a grasser-full blooded Navajo but he was adopted-he didn't get carded but he was sweatin' it because since he's adopted he's not enrolled.

What does a card prove anyway when many tribes enroll people with even low blood quatums. Carding dancers is not going to keep kooks from dancing around in roadkill when they can dance in intertribals anyway- besides if someone is afraid of contesting against someone in roadkill, they must suck.

Pow wows that card lose dancers, not everyone keeps family records or has the means of being able to be enrolled, if everyone had the means of being enrolled than SCIC would still have a lot of dancers that travel the circuit-but it doesn't. Besides, I've noticed that every year there they get a lot of dancers there from that Hobbiest Assoc.-doesn't that show them that carding defeated the purpose of why they started it???Now, there are more hobbiests there exhibitioning than there are in the dance contests-its pretty sad when you got a lot of dancers that travel around who would rather stay home than go there.

But, thats what I think. I guess Soboba realized how carding lowers dancers attendence because now they only ask for your card when you win.???
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Old 05-06-2004, 02:42 AM   #62
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Thumbs up

Just thought I'd read this older thread; and bring it back up to the top of the line. This is a good subject to open up to further discussion.
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Old 05-06-2004, 12:50 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CYSA
No one else on here or out there can tell you who you are and what you are and wether or not your ndn. you know where you come from and who your family is, take pride in your ancestry no matter where it comes from
Apparantly people can tell me who I am and who I'm not, lol. Most of the time its some "Natives" and Non-Natives that tell me I'm not Indian enough or whatever. But I know who I am and I luv myself, lol.

The carding issue....I really don't agree with them carding people to compete, because like its been said before, some people can't enroll because of certain issues, but they're just as Native as anyone else. My thing is, if they're going to card, card EVERYONE. Don't pick and choose based on looks. Now, I take mine up there with me just in case. It makes me a little upset when the person at registration cards someone in front of me, or someone behind me, but they won't card me because they know me or something. I would think I'm one of the ones they card because of looks. Most of y'all that know me know I'm light skin, but there's color there, lol, and my hair isn't black or anything, its like medium brown. But whatever, just don't be pickers and choosers. And at this powwow I went to recently, it said you have to have a state or federally recognized tribal ID. Well, there were these girls that came all the way down from NY, and they had their cards, but for some reason they didn't let them dance. There were others out there I know don't have cards, or they're bogus ones, but they were allowed to compete. But whatever. I just really wish they'd fix the issues and stop the drama, lol. I feel though, people should be allowed to dance if they want to. As long as they're respectful, and just have good, clean fun:) And if they can't compete, at least let them dance exhibition if they want to. I know its a lot more fun to be able to dance with just your category when you want to jam, instead of trying to do it in intertribals where its crowded. Also, if there's rules, like registration closes at a specific time, don't open it back up later for someone to register. I went to a powwow last year, and they opened it back up for me, even though they had denied several other people who got there late. It caused a lot of drama, and I felt bad about it the whole weekend. Also, we all need to remember we're not dancing for the money, at least we're not supposed to be. I slip up every once in a while, but I always try to remember the real reasons I'm dancing, and its not for the money. Well, that's enough from me, lol.

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Old 05-06-2004, 01:40 PM   #64
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So think about this...I have an ID card.
My kids fall below the blood quantum....
So my children, my flesh and blood; that I love more than anything; can't dance someplace because they are not pedigreed like a dam# cocker spaniel!
I will not. and never have danced or supported anywhere that needs cards!
This is the white mans beaurocratic, acountant mindset and any commitee who wants a card has sold out to them and bought into it heart and soul...meaning they may be brown but they are not Indians anymore.
It does not work any way...look at all the blond haired blue eyed card carriers....
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Old 05-06-2004, 02:04 PM   #65
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Well said Chenoa.

And why is it that huge powwows like The Gathering and Schemitzun don't ask for cards and some smaller ones do? I mean, if there is a registration fee (and there usually is one) and some wannabe thinks they can compete with the bloods and wants to dance, I'd be more than happy to take their money,:$$$: card or no card. But that's just me.
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Old 05-06-2004, 03:10 PM   #66
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Old 05-06-2004, 03:18 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by storm
So think about this...I have an ID card.
My kids fall below the blood quantum....
So my children, my flesh and blood; that I love more than anything; can't dance someplace because they are not pedigreed like a dam# cocker spaniel!
I will not. and never have danced or supported anywhere that needs cards!
This is the white mans beaurocratic, acountant mindset and any commitee who wants a card has sold out to them and bought into it heart and soul...meaning they may be brown but they are not Indians anymore.
It does not work any way...look at all the blond haired blue eyed card carriers....

OKAY!!!!!!

And with some powwows it doesn't matter if you have a card or not. Look at Denver March. You have to be 1/4 bq to contest. What gets me is do they allow people who are 1/4 totalling more than one tribe, or just the one you're enrolled in? After adding up all my Indin parts it comes to 1/4 of 4 tribes (though I lean closely to two.) So, would I be able to dance there? I'm also a hypocrite because at the same time I can't hate on Denver March because with 1/4 bq at least it's real blood natives making that choice and not, uh, you know, uh, the blonde ones with the very huge fraction of a bq.
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Old 05-07-2004, 08:48 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homalosa
From the way some people describe powwows, it does look like folks are getting carded based on looks.


Well you need to go to NC, there I fell that they use looks to base carding. For me I think if a tribe host a powwow then it is up to that tribe to card, but if it is intertribal and put on by some committee, then no they should not card.
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Old 05-07-2004, 10:07 AM   #69
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Please...think about this...
Granted ,,,It is our culture, we are offended when folks appear to be disrespectful, we are threatened when non-indians wish to participate, because of our history with whites we are distrustful of thier motives and fear they want it to take even more from us...that being said.................
What if you went to an Opera, or a play and they carded everyone "If you are not white you cannot come in"
.....wait a minute!!!!!!we been there!
One wrong does NOT deserve another! Two wrongs don't make it right. You believe in equality and brotherhood, or you do not....no middle ground!
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Old 05-07-2004, 10:13 AM   #70
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There are advantages to being carded and disadvantages to it as well.
Advantages: 1) No Wannabees and New Agers.
2) If press invited, (hopefully) a better image is presented ( been to one
powwow where a guy with a card dressed al la Tandy Road Clan, the
press picked up on him and no one else).

Disadvantages: 1) Not all Natives, both pure and mixed, will be able to dance for
various reasons.
2) Some really good and knowledable non-Native would be allowed to
dance (Jack Heriad of Whispering Wind comes to mind).
3) Press might not attend becasue it is not an "open" event.

My personal opinion is not to card. Down where I'm from, alot of people are not on the rolls because of legal bs. Way to deal with press inlcude a free program, getting a member of the committee to arange and escort the press around, etc.
Just my $.02
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Old 05-07-2004, 10:14 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by storm
Please...think about this...

What if you went to an Opera, or a play and they carded everyone "If you are not white you cannot come in"
.....wait a minute!!!!!!we been there!
One wrong does NOT deserve another! Two wrongs don't make it right. You believe in equality and brotherhood, or you do not....no middle ground!

Very well put!!!
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Old 05-07-2004, 11:08 AM   #72
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I just need to ask a quick question. I keep seeing this around, but I have no clue what it is. What exactly is a "Tandy road clan" or "Tandy" whatever, or a "Twinkie"? I've missed something, lol. Laterz
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Old 05-07-2004, 11:41 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChenoaNativeGirl
I just need to ask a quick question. I keep seeing this around, but I have no clue what it is. What exactly is a "Tandy road clan" or "Tandy" whatever, or a "Twinkie"? I've missed something, lol. Laterz
lol, that was funny!

"Tandy" is the name of a leather-and-plastic outfit that sells some plastic native-looking stuff... Albiet they are MUCH more plastic than Crazy Crow even... "Road Clan" I'd imagine means "road kill clan", like for those goofs what wear whatever stuff they just peeled off the front of their pickup truck on the way to the event...

"Twinkies", and "apples", well, those are terms you'll find a lots of discussion about elsewhere. It'd take more than just a few sentences to even TRY to explain. And even then, there are a lot of different interpretations. Let's just say they're not very nice things to call people...

hth, lol,
Tom
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Old 05-07-2004, 11:57 AM   #74
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Quote:
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lol, that was funny!

"Tandy" is the name of a leather-and-plastic outfit that sells some plastic native-looking stuff... Albiet they are MUCH more plastic than Crazy Crow even... "Road Clan" I'd imagine means "road kill clan", like for those goofs what wear whatever stuff they just peeled off the front of their pickup truck on the way to the event...

"Twinkies", and "apples", well, those are terms you'll find a lots of discussion about elsewhere. It'd take more than just a few sentences to even TRY to explain. And even then, there are a lot of different interpretations. Let's just say they're not very nice things to call people...

hth, lol,
Tom
yeah, like Oreos and Uh-oh Oreos...
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Old 05-07-2004, 02:20 PM   #75
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I think most of them that do that, do it to keep the hobbyists out. But that's stupid that you gotta have a blood qt. to dance?? WTF is wrong with people now a days?? Is our people really starting to do the white mans way? That's some syit that the white man would do.
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Old 05-07-2004, 06:33 PM   #76
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Quote:
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I just need to ask a quick question. I keep seeing this around, but I have no clue what it is. What exactly is a "Tandy road clan" or "Tandy" whatever, or a "Twinkie"? I've missed something, lol. Laterz

First there are the wannabees. They are the white people who "want to be" ndn so bad they say they were "adopted" by an ndn family, or "my gramma was a cherokee princess", they try to learn our language, they try to dance our dances, etc etc.

Then they "graduate" to the twinkies. These white people now buy and/or try to make our jewellery. They wear feathers, silver ndn jewellery, beadwork and them gawd awful brightly coloured feathers attached to roach clips and they fasten them all over their hair. They want to "twinkle" and shine ndn.

Then, we hit the bottom of the barrel. The whites who sell our ceremonies, sweatlodges, sundances, and they go around saying they are medicine men/women.

That, in a nutshell is the explanation of "TWINKIE", and a little more. :D
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Old 05-08-2004, 01:39 PM   #77
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Great discussion

Good points on both the pros and cons. The only thing that really bothers me is when you see whites that every one knows is white with a card amd they have it because someone pulled some strings or something like that. Should those that are adopted legally have a card when some full bloods for whatever reason can't get one.

Then there's the whole thing of latinos who admit they are not ndn but never get hasseled cause they look ndn, yet a mixed blood say 1/2 white or 1/2 black will be put thru the ringer because they don't look as ndn.

Also if it's about fed recognition then the standard s/b the same. Eisenhower had hoped to ''end the ndn problem'' by carding ndns out of existence that's why he pushed so hard for urban relocation.

I kinda agree that if a tribe puts on a pw and the monies come from per capita allotments then the monies should go to ndns, but if it's an intertribal organization and the monies come from fund raisers then why card?

this whole card business has caused so many problems, especially with the per capita deal. people want a bigger piece of the pie so some tribes vote for greater BQ. Some want more political clot so they lower the BQ.

Again I wonder if money weren't envolved would we care as much about who dances?

On our being the only ethnicity that requires proof of lineage; if Johnny Cochran ever succeeds in winning reparations for direct descendants of African slaves, the same wannabees will then be go around saying their great-great grandmother was a slave (a house slave not a field slave) and they are part black. Then instead of dying their hair black they will all get curly perms and fill their lips with even more collegen!

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Old 05-08-2004, 03:50 PM   #78
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not to change the subject, but on the reparations issue, what about those blacks descended from black slave holders, slave traders, etc? Would they be allowed to receive reparation because of their ethnicity when their ancestors help perpetuate the system? Also what about other countries involved in the slave trade: England, Belgium, France, Holland, Senegal, Ivory Coast, etc, would they have to give reparations as well? Agin my $.02.
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Old 05-09-2004, 12:51 AM   #79
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lol. thanks y'all for the explainations of the "twinkies" and "tandy" and uhmmm, yeah whatever else was discussed, lol. I think I get it, lol.

On the carding issue, a couple of you brought up a few good points. If its a tribal powwow, the tribe should decide whether to card or not, and an intertribal powwow shouldn't card. That just makes sense to me.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:30 AM   #80
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I don't worry about being carded because of one simple reason. I don't compete. If someone comes along and slips me a handshake, hug, or a lil gift and tells me they appreciate me, that's better than any contest money. :)

Not too far off the subject.....how can folks wear roadkill that still smells (let alone looks) like roadkill? :?????: :Scared :Shocked
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