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Old 03-31-2004, 11:09 AM   #1
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Kwe Question?

What do you think about other tribes doing your dance?

Since this is your dance, do you think other tribes have the right to do this dance?

Many women have simply decided to do this dance without proper permission or ceremony. Do you think the Gitchi dah-kwe would approve?

Let's hear your thoughts about how much this dance has spread throughout Indian Country.
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Old 03-31-2004, 12:53 PM   #2
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In spite of the sadness I feel because of the way our dress has been exhibited over the years by many, it will still go on being exhibited as just a pretty dress - a category. With those dresses that are being danced with for no other reason that a hope to place at a contest powwow, it lacks the "true" meaning. It has no anishnabe spirit because I could bet nearly 100% of the time, the correct protocol and traditions have not been followed before putting it on. There (rightly) is even a proper way to put the dress on! I mean, how can it be correctly followed for it is not any other tribes' way, right? There are ceremonies to go through, there are teachings that go along with it, there are teaching what to do and what not to do (even while at powwows). We dont dance while moontime is with us. I enjoy watching "native" women dance at powwows with our dresses, it makes me proud to know my Ojibway nation are the true owners of the Jingle Dress. It just makes me a little sad to know those contest contemporary dresses lack the true spirit of healing. Then again, there still are many that do have it! So, to you Native women from other tribes who dance jingle have fun and most of all have respect :)
Mii-aweh!
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Old 03-31-2004, 03:48 PM   #3
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Origin of dress and ways of it.

Thank you for that invitation..to wear your dress. I know I didn't follow the way..the original way? But when I decided to dance again: for some reason it had to be jingle and Yes I am aware of the story about the healing that took place. I guess for me that is what it is about when I do dance is praying for healing for those around the circle and within the circle. My pay off is that it keeps me healthy and strong as a native woman. There are lots of things I don't do when I am on my time..like cook..be around medicines, don't go to inipis etc. What I can do in this modern life I adhere to. Even when I am on my time I don't touch the eagle plumes nor the feathers. If I had my way...LOL yeah I wouldn't want to be around people either, but it's not that way anymore. But my question is this..would you be willing to share..teachings..about this if people were interested in learning? But at the same time the understanding is there too, if you don't want people to know..anything about it. B/c as lakota people some of those contest categories also belong to us, but now it's like all over the country..etc.
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Old 03-31-2004, 04:11 PM   #4
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I'm a guy, but I'll share this with you LW. The dress is very special and there are certain things that should be done with it and with the wearer before being put on. This does not mean that other nations cannot wear it. Most Ojib women dancers can fill you in on where to get these teachings. Ojibwesweetie already has told you that all you Native women can wear this dress ( Native- not wannabees). I was told that this healing dress is meant to be shared with those who need it. Our Creator does not give any one dibs on who can utilize the tools with which to call on help.
Some Ojib women do not wear the same dress to powwows as they do to ceremony dances. That is true respect.
Don't take my word for it, tho'. Remember, I'm a guy and only the true teachers can give you the right way.
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Old 03-31-2004, 04:17 PM   #5
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Kiwehnzii, chimiigwetch niiji! You are correct in saying some Ojibway women do not wear the same jingle dress to powwows. I forgot to mention that.
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Old 03-31-2004, 05:53 PM   #6
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jingle dress

well personally im glad to be a jingle dress dancer...now i'm not ojibway/anishnabe...but it doesnt matter that the dancer be ojibway if the person has the right to wear jingle dress and has gone through proper ceremonies then its all good and dandy..its sad that the meaning is slowly becoming lost and is becoming more of a catagory....the jingle dress wasnt meant for that...but then again we gotta think that maybe not all nations uphold the jingle dress like nations that do ya know?...when i used to go to powwows alot i would get upset because i couldnt dance for various reason either i was on my moon or medical reason like mono...i still get upset every now and then because i cant get out there and dance just yet...i went through mourning and now im redooing everything all over again.. giveaway etc......my question is what do you think about ppl pulling jingle dancers over just because they aint ojibway?-becca
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Old 04-01-2004, 01:16 AM   #7
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Do you feel as if we don't have cause to be concerned?
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Old 04-01-2004, 11:35 AM   #8
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I am thankful that real anishnabes are expressing how they feel about others wearing their dresses at powwows.

Since this dance, and the dress that accompanies it, has spead so far and wide, many women who wish to dance in the jingle dress do not have access to get permission or go through Anishnabe ceremony to have the "right to wear the jingle dress."

I have seen women being brought into the powwow arena as jingle dress dancers for the first time. After being brought in, they either fed visitors, had a giveaway or both. In these instances tribes other than the Anishnabe were bringing these women into the arena as jingle dress dancers. Among the individuals in charge as sponsors for the new dancers, were people from the Lakota, Cree, Navaho and Kiowa tribes.

Do other tribes have the right to bring in a jingle dress dancers into the powwow arena?

Also (the age old question*) what do the Anishnabe think about the spread of your dance to white people both here and in Europe?

And finally, what do you think of Jingle dresses being sold over the internet to whoever can afford them?

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Old 04-01-2004, 02:48 PM   #9
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Well, I am not an expert on anything, but I feel towards those who just put on a jingle dress and dance in it because, "traditional is too slow and fancy is too fast" kinda people, and yes I have encountered people like that, who got a talking to by, not me, but an elder that was near by, towards those kind of people, it just ticks me off because the dress is so much more than that. Another thing I can't stand are those girls that wear jingle dresses that look like the seams are going to bust open, what's up with that? Yeh that dress is their own personal property but did the old nishnab ogitchidaa kwe's wear those kind?? Look at the old pics, you'll never see a dress like that, those are today's standards for models and prom dresses. lol. I just find it disrespectful, what if I took a ceremonial dance from a southwestern tribe, evolved it into a pow-wow category, and just did something crazy with it for the sake of "evolution" of native culture as a whole. The smoke dance is getting popular all over the U.S., what if I took that dance and altered it a bit, made myself neon tradish gear of the 6 nations and said, "well, we must move forward because everyone else is." I think some Mohawk woman would whip my arse into shape, as I would expect them to. Ya know? Or am I just talking alot of B.S?
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Old 04-01-2004, 06:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Kwe_Zee*
Well, I am not an expert on anything, but I feel towards those who just put on a jingle dress and dance in it because, "traditional is too slow and fancy is too fast" kinda people, and yes I have encountered people like that, who got a talking to by, not me, but an elder that was near by, towards those kind of people, it just ticks me off because the dress is so much more than that. Another thing I can't stand are those girls that wear jingle dresses that look like the seams are going to bust open, what's up with that? Yeh that dress is their own personal property but did the old nishnab ogitchidaa kwe's wear those kind?? Look at the old pics, you'll never see a dress like that, those are today's standards for models and prom dresses. lol. I just find it disrespectful, what if I took a ceremonial dance from a southwestern tribe, evolved it into a pow-wow category, and just did something crazy with it for the sake of "evolution" of native culture as a whole. The smoke dance is getting popular all over the U.S., what if I took that dance and altered it a bit, made myself neon tradish gear of the 6 nations and said, "well, we must move forward because everyone else is." I think some Mohawk woman would whip my arse into shape, as I would expect them to. Ya know? Or am I just talking alot of B.S?
__

Kwe_Z:

No, you are not just talking a lot of BS. What you and other Anishnabe are saying is all in unison. You have every right to be concerned as to the directions other tribes are taking YOUR dance and dresses.

What is more important, many people read this forum to learn about the dances that they are doing. Some will read this tread and take it to heart. But on the other hand some will not.

It is important to speak your mind and voice facts. . .

"!ESPECIALLY if it is YOUR dance!"
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Old 04-02-2004, 10:21 AM   #11
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The shinobs on here have already said what's needs to be said but I suppose I will throw my meagre words in.

To me, it's ok if a member of another nation wears the dress, so long as they EARN it (Jibkwes as well). And that involves sacrifice (the fasting, the praying, the abstinence). And once one earns the right to wear the dress, there are numerous responsibilities that go along with it. One of the main ones being sobriety.

I am saddened when I see (Native) women not respecting the style of dance. And infuriated when hamhocks hang out when ppl of the Wanahbay Nation sit down in one.
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Old 04-02-2004, 11:26 AM   #12
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Okay....well hummz....im not ojib....i dont got any ojib blood in me buuut I do dance jingle.
I wanted to dance jingle since i was real little! but i never did.
Because I was young, I didn't understand the meaning of the dress so I wasn't ready to dance jingle.
But when I was 12, I had a womens ceremony (given to my mother by an elder ojib kwe) and with that I also had my jingle dress ceremony. I fasted, feasted and had a giveaway. It was a very important time in my life! One I'm never going to forget!
I wanted to come into dancing Jingle the right way.
There is a difference between any dress that I wear to Powwows and one that I might wear to ceremonies, if I ever attended one to dance jingle at. But theres a fine line between knowing the difference and pretending to know.
Ummm...thats all i wanted to say....I'm no expert either :Chatter I just know what I was taught.
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Old 04-02-2004, 11:27 AM   #13
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oh and Kwe_Zee .....dont forget us oneidas ...I'd whoop ya too ayeez :p

But about smoke dance.....well the songs any way.....
The smoke dance songs you hear, they're derived from ceremonial songs, so they were meant to be social and meant to be shared.
But the outfits are still the ceremonial ones we wear to the longhouse. Slappin on them dresses when go to the longhouse etc etc or else them ol ladiez give you "the look" ayeez
:Chatter
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Old 04-02-2004, 01:18 PM   #14
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Hehe Shan.... "the look" :P

I also don't get how some jinglers go out the night before, wake up with barely 4 hours of sleep and dance Jingle on Sunday competition. Hmmm.....
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Old 04-02-2004, 02:48 PM   #15
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Question huh

so who can wear the jingle dress?
caz up here jus bout everyone has one~!~ :rainbw:

im all ojibwe so im pretty sure its ok if i have one? lol
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Old 04-02-2004, 03:47 PM   #16
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Hmmmmm I'm not Ojib here, i'm full navajo, i have a couple of dine jinglers in my family.

But i guess someone said something about sobriety, are we talking just NO DRUGS/ALCOHOL for just that weekend of the powwow OR their ENTIRE LIFE?? LOL cuz we all know that quite a bit of the well known and non well known jinglers out there today would not be able to fit into that category of "SOBRIETY FOR YOUR ENTIRE LIFE as long as you wear that dress" because you will see them partying up during non powwow times and what not. Also i think the real jinglers are the ONES that DON'T DRINK OR DO DRUGS AT ALL..yeah that may be "stale" or whatever, but I mean if you want to be traditional about it all, wouldn't that be the way to go? I'm not trynna disrespect anyone or the dress here, this dress helped my younger sis back when she used to dance... but that was along time ago, she doesn't dance anymore mainly because she's seen firsthand that many girls have taken advantage of this dress.

but then again..what do i know.. im just a navajo:) LOL but we were taught the right ways of that dress before my sister began to dance jingle.....

Last edited by BurBz; 04-02-2004 at 03:53 PM..
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Old 04-02-2004, 10:16 PM   #17
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i dont drink , smoke or use drugs~!~ :flaming:

course i dont diss those that do thats their thing if they please
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Old 04-02-2004, 11:13 PM   #18
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Yeah I agree. Sad thing is, folks these days look at you sideways when you don't drunk, get high, or whore around. I don't look down on anyone but dang, when yall see folks tryin to do right, give them their proper respect. Quit being petty and pull together.

Hats off to the ladies. Proud of yall. :);)
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Old 04-05-2004, 03:14 PM   #19
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My friends tell me they have seen jingle dresses on ebay and I just saw a jingle dress kit available through Crazy Crow trading post.

What do you kwe's think about how the jingle dress is being sold and marketed?
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Old 04-05-2004, 03:48 PM   #20
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First off; thanks for those who spoke.
I learned something....
My daughter wanted to dance this way years ago. I said NO. We know nothing about it. We cannot just pick it up.
She can dress and dance several ways,(Tribes) and knows those things she should about those dresses.
She wanted to dance in that jingle dress because all her friends did, it was the thing.... Now I know a little more about it and I know I was right..
There are dances and there are "dances"...
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