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Old 05-05-2004, 09:13 AM   #61
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Ojibway elders believe in the healing of the dress. If they ask you to dance you better get up and dance! It is not wrong to fulfill an elders request.
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Old 05-05-2004, 10:06 AM   #62
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I'd like to add that any traditional drum keeper worth his salt knows enough about things to be able to chime in when things are wrong - such as with young ladies and whatnot. You can usually tell the ones who know for sure what they are doing by the thunder staves (bent/curled/looped posts) at each corner of thier drum. Still, even in that situation, it's nice to have an older lady on hand that knows a thing or two - especially if she knows it the same way you do.

Even though it is towards the center of things, I'd say the dress is only a fraction of what is going on here.

ganabaj niwii-ikidow meenawaa gomaa baamaa.

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Old 05-06-2004, 04:01 PM   #63
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In a recent conversation with a pws.com moderator, the question came up,"Is the jingle dress worn in jingle dress ceremonies different from the neon colored, multi designed jingle dresses worn in a contest?"

My assumption would be yes.

What to you Kwe think?
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Old 05-06-2004, 06:28 PM   #64
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Yes.

Kiwehnzii said something about that in an earlier post. There are jingle dresses that are traditional and worn in the ceremonies. Very different from the flashy, neon ones lol.
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:43 AM   #65
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As more tribes begin to adapt the jingle dress dance for competition purposes, champions begin to emerge.

Would it offend the Anishinabe if there was a major powwow and no Anishinabe placed even though they were well represented?

What do you think of contemporary non Anishinabe dancers, placing higher than Anishinabe Ikwe's in jingle dress contests?
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Old 05-10-2004, 02:05 PM   #66
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It happens all the time. Personally it bothers me to some extent.. I don't know how the other kwes feel here. The thing that keeps me happy is knowing that we are the true people of the jingle dress, and only Anishnabe kwe, when done properly has the true spirit of healing within the dress. The contemp dresses are used for contest and I said before somewhere, most probably those contemp dresses are not properly taken care of before wearing, I mean, how can they when they are not anishnabe, right? How would a dancer lets say from new mexico for example know what the proper protocol is before wearing it? They would not know, therefore the dress is lacking the spirit of healing. Makes sense? I'm trying to type quickly here as I am with auditors this afternoon *LOL*. :p
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Old 05-10-2004, 02:55 PM   #67
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Old 05-10-2004, 03:16 PM   #68
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hmmm...i guess after reading all of those replies and what not...and even before i read them i've come to this thought, and its just a thought, but i think there was a reason our people gave our dresses away, if worn in the proper fashion and with tobacco it becomes a healing dress, to be worn as that a healing dress to be worn by someone who needs healing. I know that when i'm dancing i cant help but smile, it feels good to have that attachment to god. and thats what i feel when i dance, there are songs where i dont even remember how i dance or even remember stopping. When the dress is used properly there is a feeling of love and your on air. but then again if a dress is just a dress for looks then thats the feeling that person will give off and how they will look when dancing. I dunno its kind of hard to explain...anyhow i guess it comes down to the dress itself it came from the creator as a way of healing, laughter is said to be a kind of healing and thats what i do...I will act silly to get a smile, i will also be serious when i need to be. as for the kits...i dunno i could see that as a way to learn to make a dress, but there wont be any feeling in it, no real spirit. As for my dresses my mother makes them, I could make my own but i chose not to, for she puts love into it and that just pours out when i dance. anyhow, when our ancestors gave our dress to other tribes it was a sign of good faith, a goodwill gesture in hopes that the story and in hopes they too would be able to atain the love and the healing power that creator had shown us, just as the lakota had given us the soldier drums as a sign of goodwill and goodfaith. ummm i think thats what i was thinking, if not i'll be back to edit.
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:59 PM   #69
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Old 05-11-2004, 11:07 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby 2sday
I agree with you Ojibwaysweetie. What about when they have the old style jingle categories/specials and the Ojibs get shut out. But I think in that case it's the judges who haven't been to Ojib country to see real old style like at tradish powwows. It kind of bugs me too but not enough for me to get all mad and angry about it. And some of those ladies of other tribes can old style pretty good.

Hinckley is having that category this year and I'm curious to see how that's going to go. The old style sidestep special is good to watch there,Tarah J rippin it up,havin fun, and smiling out there.
Good Ruby. Yes there are judges at powwows judging the old style jingle who lack the knowledge of the proper protocol, ie. the steps, etc. which leads to our own anishnabe ikwes not placing. and yes, it bothers me to some extent, but again its not the fault of anyone if they lack the awareness. I hope to make it to Hinckley to see the trad category!
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Old 05-15-2004, 01:00 PM   #71
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wow! this has turned into a really good discussion! :) Coool...

OKay, what about a non Ojib woman, BUT a full Blood from another tribe that lets say she really knows the old style steps and dances only that style ....and does not possess any of the "highlighter" type of dresses...If you happen to be at the same pw as this person would you Ojib Kwes go up to her and say "hey you did a good job dancing out there, thanks for carrying on the true meaning of our dress" :dontknow: I'm just curious :D ...kinda a cheezy question...but i'm just wondering :)
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Old 05-16-2004, 11:02 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burberrilish
wow! this has turned into a really good discussion! :) Coool...

OKay, what about a non Ojib woman, BUT a full Blood from another tribe that lets say she really knows the old style steps and dances only that style ....and does not possess any of the "highlighter" type of dresses...If you happen to be at the same pw as this person would you Ojib Kwes go up to her and say "hey you did a good job dancing out there, thanks for carrying on the true meaning of our dress" :dontknow: I'm just curious :D ...kinda a cheezy question...but i'm just wondering :)
Hiya Burbz :)

Well, first of all......in my respectful opinion a woman who dances jingle from another tribe will not know the "real" old style. She may know how to dance the steps and the movements while dancing both straight and sidestep, but to know the real old style the dress possesses that spirit of healing and medicine and there are certain things Anishnabe Ikwe has to do before it can be recognized as a true jingle dress. :) Not a cheesy question, Burbz how we going to know if we dont' ask right? :D
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Old 05-17-2004, 12:53 PM   #73
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Ohhh Okay OjiSweetie!! Thanks :) seeeee it doesn't hurt to ask huh??? :p
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Old 05-17-2004, 01:40 PM   #74
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You're so right, Burbzie :D
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Old 05-20-2004, 10:02 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
In a recent conversation with a pws.com moderator, the question came up,"Is the jingle dress worn in jingle dress ceremonies different from the neon colored, multi designed jingle dresses worn in a contest?"

My assumption would be yes.

What to you Kwe think?
im not ojibway or anishnabe....but if ya look at old time photos especially those pictured in whispering wind magazine...i think they had pictured the original ladies of jingle im not sure on that one but old time jingle dresses were very plain and long....now in days because of trends ya see flashy sequinned and short jingle dresses...their acceptable short but the original jingle i believe were pencil thin not like they have now...thigns have changed since then and im wondering if its good or bad to introduce trends..
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Old 05-20-2004, 10:07 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojibwaysweetie
Hiya Burbz :)

Well, first of all......in my respectful opinion a woman who dances jingle from another tribe will not know the "real" old style. She may know how to dance the steps and the movements while dancing both straight and sidestep, but to know the real old style the dress possesses that spirit of healing and medicine and there are certain things Anishnabe Ikwe has to do before it can be recognized as a true jingle dress. :) Not a cheesy question, Burbz how we going to know if we dont' ask right? :D
but as long as we respect the jingle dance and follow it we still have the right to dance jingle....right? cuz i was told that its meant to be shared as long as we follow and go through proper procedures in becoming a jingle dancer
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Old 05-21-2004, 12:45 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidatsawmn26
but as long as we respect the jingle dance and follow it we still have the right to dance jingle....right? cuz i was told that its meant to be shared as long as we follow and go through proper procedures in becoming a jingle dancer
who told you that?

Another woman from another tribe other than the Ojibways, (the rightful owners of our jingle dress) can dance with it anytime, anywhere, we cannot stop that no matter how any one of us Anishnabe women feel. I also feel they can even go through any procedure(s) they want, but the dress lacks the spirit of that healing because we have certain things we have to do first and certain dreams Anishnabe women have before making their dress...those are Ojibway teachings and traditions from the time our jingle dress was given to us by the Creator. And no, I will not say here what they are...... No other tribe will "really" know the proper procedures because simply and quite logically they are not Anishnabe. One of my Ojib sisters said somewhere here that more women atta go to Northern Canada and Minnesota rezzes to see our elder jingle dress women dance and how they carry themselves. Only then you will see the true old style jingle. Today, many tribes dance with our dress all over Canada and the US....and it really makes me very proud to know my people are the sole/soul owners......:)
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Old 05-21-2004, 12:49 AM   #78
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Ahow, Anishnabe Ikwewaak......giin taam!

What you other kwes gotta say?
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Old 05-25-2004, 09:06 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by ojibwaysweetie
who told you that?

Another woman from another tribe other than the Ojibways, (the rightful owners of our jingle dress) can dance with it anytime, anywhere, we cannot stop that no matter how any one of us Anishnabe women feel. I also feel they can even go through any procedure(s) they want, but the dress lacks the spirit of that healing because we have certain things we have to do first and certain dreams Anishnabe women have before making their dress...those are Ojibway teachings and traditions from the time our jingle dress was given to us by the Creator. And no, I will not say here what they are...... No other tribe will "really" know the proper procedures because simply and quite logically they are not Anishnabe. One of my Ojib sisters said somewhere here that more women atta go to Northern Canada and Minnesota rezzes to see our elder jingle dress women dance and how they carry themselves. Only then you will see the true old style jingle. Today, many tribes dance with our dress all over Canada and the US....and it really makes me very proud to know my people are the sole/soul owners......:)
my aunte sherrie
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Old 06-24-2004, 12:23 PM   #80
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I respect all the Anishinabe ikwes for speaking their minds and heart on this subject.

I think most women who dance in a jingle dress have heard the origin story of how the jingle dress came to be.

Two versions of where this origin story took place have surfaced. One from White Fish Bay, Ontario and the other from the Mill Lacs, Minnesota Reservation.

Is there one place that can be agreed on as to the location of the origin?
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