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Old 03-08-2010, 01:17 PM   #1
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side step is for contest purposes or not?

My question is "Was the side step create for contest purposes only?' A young jingle dress dancer refuses to side step because she claims that it is contest dance and she only dances straight for the medicine. Don't know where she was taught. I wanted to put this question out to hopefully get some feedback and clarity. Thank you for any info.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:16 PM   #2
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This dance belongs to the Ojibwe people..it is a medicine dance and there are certain songs for this ceremonial dress. ("side step" being one of them)Only competition pow wow has used the side step in competing in this category. Like most dances, its origin has been misconstrued and misrepresented in the competition arena. it is not for competition only, it has an origin and has songs for the dress.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:59 PM   #3
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That was the point I was trying to make this weekend at a powwow to this young lady. There were other women that tried to talk to her but she became defiant and refused to listen. I had never heard the claim she was making about the side step being created for contest only. It is sad how dance information becomes diluted or miniplated.
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:31 AM   #4
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Side Step Jingle Dance

Quote:
Originally Posted by calicoquilts View Post
That was the point I was trying to make this weekend at a powwow to this young lady. There were other women that tried to talk to her but she became defiant and refused to listen. I had never heard the claim she was making about the side step being created for contest only. It is sad how dance information becomes diluted or miniplated.
I called a relative about this issue and was told that depending on where the dancer is from and their teacher dictates whether or not the side step was taught. No jingle dress dancers from my Reserve do a side step, to my thinking that fact may be because there is an Oneida Reserve across the river from my reserve and they (the Iroquois) do a side step. I also heard rumors of a Jingle Dress Society and asked the question about this Society to numerous elders and dancers and I was told that they have never heard of such a Society here in the North where the Chippewa Reserves originate.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:57 AM   #5
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jingle

To: Calcoquilts
As we all know there are those in Florida who have a habit of sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong. They also have no respect for other tribes and customs. Though they see them selfs as the know all of the native customs the rest of the world doesn't so then they have to go online running off at the mouth.
You forgot to mention the fact you interned the circle during this jingle dance in a woman's traditional cloth dress.
Next you accuse my charge of being defiant and refusing to speak to you, When it was you who approached this prayer dancer in a disrespectful manner, making demands. Who are you to tell another when she should or should not dance??
What and where do you come up with all these groups?? The Jingle Dress Society Are you even able to relay an event with out adding your own dramatics? you see there are other people who see you and what you do!!
Not every one lives in Central Florida,most of us have to live in the real world where we have Real Federal Reservations and true Elders to guide our path.

But seeings how you are such a know all of native customs, how about you tell me here and now about the Apache Jingle dancer??



Love and Blessings
Night Wolf

Last edited by Tommy (Night Wolf); 03-12-2010 at 11:40 PM..
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:00 PM   #6
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LOL classic.....when in doubt, go to the source...everthing has an origin, so go to the people who originated this dance, and this society.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:45 PM   #7
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Someone positive was reading this post! Got an invitation to go north for some education on jingle. Never claimed to know everything native...that is why I posted the question and ask questions. Is it really necessary to threaten?
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Old 03-12-2010, 07:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy (Night Wolf) View Post
To: Calcoquilts
As we all know there are those in Florida who have a habit of sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong. They also have no respect for other tribes and customs. Though they see them selfs as the know all of the native customs the rest of the world doesn't so then they have to go online running off at the mouth.
You forgot to mention the fact you interned the circle during this jingle dance in a woman's traditional cloth dress . Foul!!
Next you accuse my charge of being defiant and refusing to speak to you, When it was you who approached this prayer dancer in a disrespectful manner, making demands. Who are you to tell another when she should or should not dance??Foul!!
What and where do you come up with all these groups?? The Jingle Dress Society Are you even able to relay an event with out adding your own dramatics? you see there are other people who see you and what you do!!
Not every one lives in Central Florida,most of us have to live in the real world where we have Real Federal Reservations and true Elders to guide our path.

But seeings how you are such a know all of native customs, how about you tell me here and now about the Apache Jingle dancer??

Disrespect my charge again and you will see her protector first hand, by the way if you can see me coming it's already too later to save your butt!!


Love and Blessings
Night Wolf
I've been here long enough for people to know how I am. So her's my thing. I don't care about lover's quarrels and he said she said stuff. I do get a kick out of reading drama like this.

So here's my question(s)...

What the heck is a 'charge' at a powwow?

And why do you yell FOUL!!! when ur talking about a powwow / Is it like a basketball game in ur area?

Love and Blessings,

JD (Skirtchaser)

I don't want to be a wolf.
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy (Night Wolf) View Post
To: Calcoquilts
As we all know there are those in Florida who have a habit of sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong. They also have no respect for other tribes and customs. Though they see them selfs as the know all of the native customs the rest of the world doesn't so then they have to go online running off at the mouth.
You forgot to mention the fact you interned the circle during this jingle dance in a woman's traditional cloth dress . Foul!!
Next you accuse my charge of being defiant and refusing to speak to you, When it was you who approached this prayer dancer in a disrespectful manner, making demands. Who are you to tell another when she should or should not dance??Foul!!
What and where do you come up with all these groups?? The Jingle Dress Society Are you even able to relay an event with out adding your own dramatics? you see there are other people who see you and what you do!!
Not every one lives in Central Florida,most of us have to live in the real world where we have Real Federal Reservations and true Elders to guide our path.

But seeings how you are such a know all of native customs, how about you tell me here and now about the Apache Jingle dancer??

Disrespect my charge again and you will see her protector first hand, by the way if you can see me coming it's already too later to save your butt!!


Love and Blessings
Night Wolf

???? *smh*
What is your problem? She is a jingle dancer and she has every right to be out there supporting other jingle dancers. If you would've asked her why she was out there she would've told you but instead you make assumptions that she's doing something wrong. She wasn't being disrespectful to your "charge". We were there and other people overheard the conversation. As far as I could tell, she should've heard her out and taken it in stride. From what I remember her telling me it didn't sidestep because it was a competition dance, it was because she couldn't do it (injury or something to that affect). I've never heard that the sidestep is a competition only dance. And if she would've stayed around longer she would've had the chance to talk to the Ojibwe jingle dancers who came in on a whirlwind (LOL).

Anyways, you have issues threatening someone like that and then saying love and blessings. You need help.
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:30 AM   #10
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Well, a long time ago, like ten years..lol...we were in Hinckley and they had an old style side step contest and then when they sang the songs, some of the men and women from the crowd came out and danced the side step in their street clothes...it was awesome! the songs were just beautiful and the dancing was very interesting to watch.
Like I said, go back to the people this dance belongs to and ask your questions because they are the authority on this dance and this society. Everything gets misconstrued in the competition arena and out in the general public by tribes that do not have the knowledge of this dance.
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Old 03-12-2010, 02:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sltate View Post
This dance belongs to the Ojibwe people..it is a medicine dance and there are certain songs for this ceremonial dress. ("side step" being one of them)Only competition pow wow has used the side step in competing in this category. Like most dances, its origin has been misconstrued and misrepresented in the competition arena. it is not for competition only, it has an origin and has songs for the dress.
Agreed!! I was there when the jingle dancers from Red Lake, MN arrived. It was inquired of them about the side step. To which they replied (and I quote): "The side step is not a competition dance." I remember an elder verifying this point in your presence. One of the jingle dancers said that she was an instructor of the dance on her reservation.

Why are you threatening someone who is trying to tell you what is right? Do you totally disregard what an elder tells you? If she was your "charge" (whatever that means), why did you not speak up when you had the chance? You need help because you have serious issues.
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:49 PM   #12
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I find it amusing, no one reads what was said, just what they want to see.
Ok, I'll admit the last statement was a bit harsh, especially for one of such little concern, but the point of the matter is the lack of respect for ones personal choices. The dancer chose not to dance that dance, and it was no bodies bees wax as to why. nor was it any ones place to try and make her. Respect her choice and leave it be.
As for those who lack knowledge in vocabulary- a Charge- is one whom is being watched over or protected by another.
As for myself and my issues, LOL, yeah I do have issues with the fact that you are all so concerned with every body else s issues you fail to deal with your own.
You are so concerned with my random statement that most of you over looked the dishonor done to a guest in your house so to speak.
The Elders tell us to honor our guest, and respect their customs,and believes even if they are not our own.

Last edited by Tommy (Night Wolf); 03-13-2010 at 12:17 AM..
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Old 03-13-2010, 12:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy (Night Wolf) View Post
To: Calcoquilts
As we all know there are those in Florida who have a habit of sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong. They also have no respect for other tribes and customs. Though they see them selfs as the know all of the native customs the rest of the world doesn't so then they have to go online running off at the mouth.
You forgot to mention the fact you interned the circle during this jingle dance in a woman's traditional cloth dress.
Next you accuse my charge of being defiant and refusing to speak to you, When it was you who approached this prayer dancer in a disrespectful manner, making demands. Who are you to tell another when she should or should not dance??
What and where do you come up with all these groups?? The Jingle Dress Society Are you even able to relay an event with out adding your own dramatics? you see there are other people who see you and what you do!!
Not every one lives in Central Florida,most of us have to live in the real world where we have Real Federal Reservations and true Elders to guide our path.

But seeings how you are such a know all of native customs, how about you tell me here and now about the Apache Jingle dancer??



Love and Blessings
Night Wolf
[QUOTE=Tommy (Night Wolf);1392466]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditonal Lady View Post
Agreed!! I was there when the jingle dancers from Red Lake, MN arrived. It was inquired of them about the side step. To which they replied (and I quote): "The side step is not a competition dance." I remember an elder verifying this point in your presence. One of the jingle dancers said that she was an instructor of the dance on her reservation.

Why are you threatening someone who is trying to tell you what is right? Do you totally disregard what an elder tells you? If she was your "charge" (whatever that means), why did you not speak up when you had the chance? You need help because you have serious issues.]
Why did u write 'whatever than means'? Ur the one who wrote it in ur first post!

And just where was this powwow? This isn't that Chambers Farm powwow everybody always kicks on, is it?
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:12 AM   #14
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Hey guys, pay attention to who you're quoting. Some people are being accused of things they didn't say.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:18 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by kgirl7 View Post
Hey guys, pay attention to who you're quoting. Some people are being accused of things they didn't say.
Hey thanks kgirl7. I apologize to Traditional Lady.

I still want to know what a 'charge' is?

I'm going to get my stronger glasses!
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Old 03-13-2010, 02:08 AM   #16
Ugh. As. If.
 
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I'm going to get my stronger glasses!
ahh snap! breaking out the coke bottles!
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Old 03-13-2010, 04:22 PM   #17
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Hey thanks kgirl7. I apologize to Traditional Lady.

I still want to know what a 'charge' is?

I'm going to get my stronger glasses!
A "charge" is someone you are taking care of or looking after. I learned that from reading "The Babysitter's Club"
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Old 03-15-2010, 09:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy (Night Wolf) View Post
I find it amusing, no one reads what was said, just what they want to see.
Ok, I'll admit the last statement was a bit harsh, especially for one of such little concern, but the point of the matter is the lack of respect for ones personal choices. The dancer chose not to dance that dance, and it was no bodies bees wax as to why. nor was it any ones place to try and make her. Respect her choice and leave it be.
As for those who lack knowledge in vocabulary- a Charge- is one whom is being watched over or protected by another.
As for myself and my issues, LOL, yeah I do have issues with the fact that you are all so concerned with every body else s issues you fail to deal with your own.
You are so concerned with my random statement that most of you over looked the dishonor done to a guest in your house so to speak.
The Elders tell us to honor our guest, and respect their customs,and believes even if they are not our own.
Everybody else's issues? Dishonor? LOL Your "charge" is a powwow ambasssador now. Don't expect no one to come up to her and ask her why she isn't dancing and then walk away in bewilderment.

Bottomline: The sidestep is not a competition-only dance.
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Old 03-15-2010, 10:13 PM   #19
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You, and people like you really don't get it do you???
Just like I said , no respect for others, and every body wants to try and tell some one else what they should be doing. Mind your biz and let others tend to theirs.
Yes, she has the title, and ether you had a vote and was out voted, or you have no vote and are just another whiny nobody trying to stir up crap but either way....
You know what I just realized, I'm wasting my time on this and you, The lot of you are not worth the time nor the effort, thus I bid you a dew, and may the blue bird of happiness gift you from on high.
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:27 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Tommy (Night Wolf) View Post
You, and people like you really don't get it do you???
Just like I said , no respect for others, and every body wants to try and tell some one else what they should be doing. Mind your biz and let others tend to theirs.
Yes, she has the title, and ether you had a vote and was out voted, or you have no vote and are just another whiny nobody trying to stir up crap but either way....
You know what I just realized, I'm wasting my time on this and you, The lot of you are not worth the time nor the effort, thus I bid you a dew, and may the blue bird of happiness gift you from on high.
I was the one who asked what a 'charge' was. And yes, I knew what a 'charge' was. Never, in my almost 30 years of powwowing, have I heard of there being a 'charge' involved at a powwow. Maybe I was being a sarcastic. You see, with all the NDNs reading on here, it doesn't take much to spot a flake. I think you fit that bill.

As far as 'mind your own biz', if you saw this post, you should have talked about in private and NEVER should have posted a response for the WHOLE world to read. You've opened up yourself to any criticism that comes your way.

I've been here more that 2 posts and I've seen them come and go. I believe you're going to be one of those that goes.

BTW If you're going to bid someone 'a dew', have the courtesy to use spell check. The word you are trying to use is 'adieu'.

Joe's Dad (skirtchaser)
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"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

Mr. Rossie Freeman
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