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Old 05-05-2003, 06:37 PM   #21
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If anyone was disrespectfull it was the elder lady. there are soo many differant colors for jingle. i believe so long as the reguired number of jingles are on the dress, then anything goes.

i think the only time a dancer should be escorted from the arena is if she (or he) was disrespectful to another dancer or a judge or arena director.
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Old 05-07-2003, 08:50 PM   #22
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I take it that "elder" doesnt go to much powwows because if so he/she would drop dead seeing all those other dancers with tha colorful outfits huh.
I think the colors pink n purple are nice colors together..i have a jingle dress that has those colors in it. ;)
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Old 05-09-2003, 11:02 AM   #23
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i think it woulda started a brawl

I really did want to yank that elder lady up and "teach" her some respect, but I think It would have started a huge ordeal and I truly believe it would have done some damge that could not be undone. I am not a meek person, I am a cop for a living, so I don't back down from things most of the time.

My daughter Cheyenne is such a great girl, she plays sports and sings, dances, straight As in school always, student council etc. She was hurt by the elder because those words were so harsh, but Cheyenne is making a name for herself for being respectful and she thinks before she does things. I do think that she will go back to jinglin when she feels the time is right for her.

She just knows that not all elders are someone to "look up to" no matter what their age or experience.

Anyway, a friend of mine recently told me that she was "taken aside" herself by several people all at different times and schooled on why she was wrong. I guess she hasn't been around much since then, I haven't seen her anyway......

Do I wish I could have handled differently sometimes yes, but it seems that it worked out the way is should have, and Cheyenne is kickin' it up as a FancyShawl dancer for awhile,

Things can be so emotional when it somes to our kids, cuz they are "our" kids and nobody should treat them wrong ever, but I think Cheyenne and I both learned alot. I don't want her to grow up to be bitter and resentful of people when they do wrong, sometimes people just make STUPID mistakes and it always comes back on them some way
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Old 05-16-2003, 10:56 PM   #24
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Jingle Dress

She had no right doing that to your daughter. I would have been outraged but you did the right thing by not causing a scene. The only thing I was scolded on was the way I danced. I was taught by elders to not get fancy in my foot work. I was told to slide my feet instead of lifting my feet. I did have a purple jingle dress and was never ever scolded on the color of my dress. The nerve of that woman...whomever she may be.
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Old 05-17-2003, 02:42 AM   #25
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At the same powwow I went to and it was mentioned in another thread about a fancy dancer being told to not dance anymore.. the head lady and mc were going to tell this young mother, who was with the head southern drum(she is married.. in her middle 20's) not to dance jingle because "you are to quit dancing jingle after you have children"!!!!!!!!! You believe THAT one?
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Old 05-17-2003, 11:29 AM   #26
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whaaaat?

How could that person not know how stupid that sounds.."quit dancing if you've had kids"
unfreakin believable!!!!!
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Old 05-18-2003, 12:52 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mato Winyan
At the same powwow I went to and it was mentioned in another thread about a fancy dancer being told to not dance anymore.. the head lady and mc were going to tell this young mother, who was with the head southern drum(she is married.. in her middle 20's) not to dance jingle because "you are to quit dancing jingle after you have children"!!!!!!!!! You believe THAT one?

Why would someone say that?????????????????????
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Old 05-18-2003, 07:10 PM   #28
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OK.... here goes... you ready for this?

I guess it is believed that the dress was given to a young girl and that is what the medicine is about. The dream/vision and healing. This is a medicine/healing dance and that it is to be done by the young girls in keeping with that orginial dream. After a woman marries and has children she should no longer do this because the "medicine" now is not apart of that.
I guess that it was forgotten about Maggie White the "Mother" of jingle dancing danced after this time.

Here are a couple of articles I found about Maggie. Couldn't find a photo... I know I have one somewhere.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The late Maggie White, from Ontario, is considered to be Canada's first lady of Jingle Dress dancing in more recent times. Her influence has caused the Jingle Dress Dance to flourish and migrate from Ontario to Western Canada. She would lead the Jingle Dress dancers in the Grand Entry at a pow wow. Often, at pow wows, she would inspire the Jingle Dress dancers by talking with them about the history and the style used in the dance.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Almost a century ago, 7 year old Maggie White of White Fish Bay Ontario, was suffering from rheumatic fever and not expected to live. Her father went into ceremony and received a vision that led to the making of the first Jingle Maggie went on to recover from her illness, to dance in her jingle dress and to establish a new tradition that lives on today on the Pow Wow circuit.
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Old 05-18-2003, 07:38 PM   #29
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Your all wrong. I would have took off my dress and asked the old lady to step outside
I've seen her do it, Ho-Leh. Not to an old lady LOL but to a person who tried to talk some smack.
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Old 05-27-2003, 09:23 AM   #30
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Elder who?

I know this is a kind of dated thread, but I've been kind of busy and am just now catching up. My middle daughter is a jingle dress dancer. She wears a contemporary-style dress. The colors are hot pink, yellow, orange, teal, and plum. She just designed a new one that, if we can get it, will include holographic material. Did she dream this up totally on her own? The design, yes. The holographic material, NO ... she saw someone from Canada using it in some applique on a JINGLE DRESS VEST and liked the way it caught the light, etc. Like sequins with lower maintenance.

How was this person an elder? Because she was old? Not everyone is certifiably and elder. Senior age folks deserve respect based on their age, but not everyone is classified as some kind of tribal elder.

Case in point. One of the girls on our youth dance team recently ditched team commitments she'd made months before so she could go out of state to compete in a princess contest. Why? Because the "elders" of that area invited her to. She came back and announced she had to ditch the NEXT commitment to go back. Why? Because the "elders" of that area said it would be considered rude of her to come to the first powwow and NOT return for the next one.

Okay ... I try to support my girls in their activities and endeavors BUT ... I found out a week after that the "elders" were affiliated with a powwow put on by and at an RV PARK and that it had nothing to do with any tribe, state or federal. So, anyone besides me questioning the validity of these elders yet?

In other words, she (and yeah ... she's way high on my fecal roster right now) ... disrespected her LOCAL mentors (we have enrolled folks who work with these kids) and let down her local community at the advice of some "elders" who don't, haven't, and didn't offer to spend any time teaching her anything about herself, her heritage, or her dance.

This kind of "elder" the world doesn't need. Reading a few books about Indian traditions, knowing you have a bit of ancestry, getting grey hair, and attending and/or planning a powwow does NOT make one a Native. That's pretty well established, right? Well it doesn't make one an "elder," either.

If the woman who accosted your daughter was a real elder, don't you think the first thing she would have done was asked your daughter to get her parents? Every real elder I've ever met would have done so (and has!), whether they wanted to compliment or condemn. It was always DIRECTED at the child, but done in FRONT of the parents. NONE of them have ever verbally attacked a child that I've ever seen, either. If there was a verbal attack, it was made to the parents. No real elder would ever belittle a child of any race. They're wiser than thinking a child has any control over its environment, including the construction of its dance outfits. ESPECIALLY a child younger than say 16. After all, even if the child can sew, someone still has to haul them to the fabric store and (probably) pay for the materials, right?

Elder? More like lunatic.
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Old 06-03-2003, 12:28 AM   #31
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she can have any color she wants. you pick the colors you want and like so u can stand out. if everyoe ahd to pick ceartin colors for each dance style then whats the pourpose of competetion when it comes to the judges judgeing your dress?
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Old 06-03-2003, 02:29 AM   #32
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That must have been a bad experience for her! I hope she dances jingle again. Outfits have to be different, other wise we all would be the same. A long time ago all the dresses were similar especially the dance style and the only way an individual would stand out was by there style and outfit.
We all dance , sew, sing, etc... in different ways. If we all thought the same this would be a plain world. We are all not the same color and the creator blessed us with all the colors from the rainbow. We create by what we feel and see. A dress is made with alot of care, hardwork, creativity and if its made with family it is special. WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN STYLES AND I HOPE YOU DAUGHTER FINDS THE STRENGTH TO DANCE JINGLE AGAIN!!! Things change!!!:Angel:
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Old 06-07-2003, 05:29 AM   #33
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Ok I know this has NOTHING to do with the topic what so ever..just about the elder part..Well there is this woman from my reserve..who is a so called elder. We took a trip down to arizona, and we were sitting a hogan..I was sitting there all quiet..I lit a cigarette and began to pray. She was all like "can i have that smoke, i need one"..I was like.."excuse me i'm praying" and she JUST LAUGHED IN MY FACE:Mad :Yell gawwwwww
and by the way, I really hope your daughter has become stronger since that comment has been made, and I hope she is able to go back to dancing jingle:)
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Old 06-14-2003, 05:32 PM   #34
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Doesn't it ROT when people are so judgemental about who is right waht is wrong...that's not our tradition...blah blah frikken blah....
To me...it is the elders responsibility and our birthright as Native people to have knowledge on our traditions...but it is our responsibility and our Grandchildrens birthrights for us to keep the circle strong. How are we suppossed to do this if the young people don't rebel, grow, and CHANGE! Traditional ways have to be respected...but what also needs to be respected is growth. Otherwise Assimilation has succeded and we are all just breeding an extinct nation...living history and not life. Change is growth...change is what we have to do so our daughters know the way...so we can adapt our traditions and modern life to co-incide....so we don't die out and fade away. If anything ma'am, you and your family deserve a standing ovation for taking on the jingle dress, following your hearts, being with family, and teaching your children to dance and revel in thier culture. NOT thier HISTORY...but thier lives.!!!!!!

*STANDING OVATION FOR JINGLE DRESS MAKER*
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Old 06-14-2003, 08:41 PM   #35
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Damn, I agree... that elder had some issues. I'm sorry that your daughter experienced that. Please tell her to just keep dancing! That's what I worry about with my own daughter. She's 4 years old and dances fancy shawl now, but she wants to dance jingle. I'm afraid though that someone will flip out about it to her the same way they did to your daughter. That's why I put up the post earlier about children dancing jingle, cause I've heard some conflicting things. As a mother I wouldnt want my child or any other child to feel ashamed or hurt about dancing, that's not what a pow-wow is about.
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Old 06-15-2003, 01:42 PM   #36
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I see some good points on this thread, but if an elder did that to my baby girl, I would probably have said something to the elder. I mean, not flip out or anything, but say that it absolutely unacceptable to say that to a child. There are proper ways of teaching our young ones, and teaching through humiliation is not an indigenous way, its a white way. Age does not make you a respected elder. Knowledge, living your life respectfully and treating others with the same kindness and respect, all the while maintaining traditional teachings is what makes an elder. When its balancing respecting an elder and sticking up for my child, there is no comparison. An elder should know better, but if you dont stick up for your child, then who will ? Thats the most important job the Creator could ever give you.

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Amen sister! Well said:)
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Old 07-15-2003, 11:11 AM   #37
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my granpa had a saying, some people become elders, the other ones just get old. if she was an elder she would have more respect for your child, elders know that children are sacred. so i think she was just an old crone...
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Old 07-15-2003, 11:35 AM   #38
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Angry

now that aint right at all...what happens if its the color thats been given to her?no one has the right to judge a person by the color of their dress...their dress is their own creation and it come from their own heart...thats like tell ing someone they cant dance cuz they aint anishnabe......i think pink and purple is a pretty color for any dress..in matter of fact purple is one of my fave colors too...dont let anyone get your daughter down for that just ignore them cuz they just old fussbudgets anyhow...they just wanna pick on her just to pick which aint right...well it will come back to the person in the long run....thats a interesting topic..people who judge poeple on how they dance...becca
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Old 08-05-2003, 05:56 PM   #39
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http://www.powwows.com/galleries/sho....php?photo=803

look at the photo, note the child in the photo.
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Old 08-05-2003, 06:14 PM   #40
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geeeeez thats too bad, alot of outfits are nice and flashy and thats something the judges look at...... damn woman.... :Mad
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