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Old 02-13-2003, 11:31 PM   #1
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What is it with these things....?

Ok Im just wondering here bout double standards......... ok Im not trying to start anything just wondering how you all feel about this...... mkay.....

Floral work is a symbol of belonging to Cree, Ojibway n other woodlandsy tribes right? well I dont see anyone getting P.O'd bout other tribes wearing these ....... as well the floral beadwork on velvet is Ojibway......(might be Cree too, I dunno, besides my point though) but......

How come when it comes to other things like this people are acting all offended n stuff when a girl/woman wears lets saw a Otoe style dress with Otoe designs??

and maybe an Ojibway woman does not get P.O'd if lets say a Crow woman wears a jingle dress with floral work on velvet......?

Just wondering what y'all ladies think about that....?

My point being.. something along the lines of well..... you know...........
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Old 02-14-2003, 05:49 PM   #2
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I live and pw in an area where southern protcol dominates. Everybody around here knows everybody. There pretty protective of there clothing. It's not unheard of for one to get approached or called out for it. I was given the rite to where Otoe clothes and designs, but I mainly stick to floral or my own patturns. I don't understand the double standard. This was long before I married my husband. My mother inlaw ( she's Navajo) wanted me to draw some floral designs for a jingle dress she was making. I just suggested she look at a quilting magazine. I'm pretty protective of my kokoum's design's and rather they stay in the family.
I guess it depends on where you live. I gotta stick up for my sister's Crow inlaws they have there own style of floral beadwork. It even looks similiar to Kiowa floral patterns too. Way back in the day they camped with one another. I hope this sheds some insight. :Angel:
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Old 02-15-2003, 12:17 AM   #3
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Thats pretty cool :)

and yes it does help to hear everyones input, I really liked what you said though :)
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Old 02-15-2003, 11:52 AM   #4
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Good point eagleclan22. Yep a few tribes have their own floral work I guess, I'm Ojibwe too and I know a few out there who aren't but like to put our style of floral on their dresses, I guess it makes them feel closer to us or something or it was "given" to them ... but anyways, all I can can remember is that I know what our real floral looks like, the old floral on black velvet and what not, it doesn't p*ss me off really cuz what can ya do about it? Rip their beadwork up? I find that concerning the Jingle dress and all that, people are gonna do what they're gonna do anyways ya know? I just sport my floral beadwork I know my grandma's and their grandmas did in their designs. I stick with my own tribe's floral and designs just cuz I would feel funny walking around with southern or Sioux designs and all that, just cuz I don't know much about those tribes. I find that just my Ojibwe floral sets me apart while down here in the southwest.
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Old 02-15-2003, 04:52 PM   #5
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yeah I've always wondered that too eagleclan22! I'll think of this for awhile then come back and post later; my brain's not workin today LOL
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Old 02-15-2003, 06:51 PM   #6
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I totally agree with ya Jingle Mama, buy the way I really like your name :)

and Witchy woman, think faster!!! lol,, :) ha ha :Chatter
Just kidding its spring break no time for thinking now.

Me neither I dont get P.O'd if I see other women of other tribes wearing Ojibway style work, It is very flattering to know that they like it enough to take the time to make these items n stuff.
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Old 02-16-2003, 10:23 PM   #7
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Miigwetch! :) eagleclan22... and it would be interesting to see what Witchy 3itchy thinks too! lol... just kiddin' girl!
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Old 02-17-2003, 03:27 PM   #8
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LOL jingle mama some "jeed" more or less called me that in one thread! but I let it slide with you cuz you're cool! Umm what I think? As for the floral part I don't really mind dancers of other tribes wearing it...it's just another issue I don't agree with maybe I'll save that for a day when I want to stir something up LOL JK yeah I agree with jingle mama though; what can ya do about it? And I agree with eagleclan22 on this question and I don't really have an answer:

"How come when it comes to other things like this people are acting all offended n stuff when a girl/woman wears lets saw a Otoe style dress with Otoe designs?? and maybe an Ojibway woman does not get P.O'd if lets say a Crow woman wears a jingle dress with floral work on velvet......?"

Ya might need someone of another tribe to comment on why other tribes get p.o'd. But I know us Ojibs are great people :)!

Last edited by Ruby 2sday; 02-17-2003 at 03:31 PM..
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Old 02-17-2003, 10:30 PM   #9
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lol, why yes us OJI's really are good people.. ;) I really appreciate everyones opinion on this subject, it helps shed a little light on myself and others with the same questions :)

And thanks for replying like you said Witchy :)


Women of other tribes, please it would be great to hear what you think as well.
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Old 02-18-2003, 12:26 AM   #10
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Hehe.. she said Jeed :P just kidding... yep I would like to hear what other woman think too..
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Old 02-18-2003, 01:28 PM   #11
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Hey!!!! You can't say that on here. :Yell :Yell :NoNo :NoNo

JK :D
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Old 02-18-2003, 02:52 PM   #12
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LMAO. Harold... what they don't know won't hurt them, what we know will make us laugh. :p :D
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Old 02-19-2003, 11:01 AM   #13
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well you also have t o take a look at other nations beadwork...some naturally do both floral but in a different way...maybe the vine is shaped different at the tip etc..
i do floral but very rarely...i only bead towards my own nations way..and to the way i was taught...but i do know what you mean
about other nations copying off other nations floral beadwork...i see alot of that done too...some people thinks okay it looks easier to do and it looks pretty so why not....now thats wrong to begin with...that there is bad as copying off another jingle dress or copying another jingle step...what are some people thinkig of ?
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Old 02-22-2003, 07:24 PM   #14
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Just as long as we dont get into Japanese designs! JKS!
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Old 02-22-2003, 08:53 PM   #15
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lol, Japanese designs, now that would just be crazy, ... Personally I wouldnt do it. But anyways,

I find that floral work takes longer and is a bit harder to do then geometric designs, especially if they have a lot of straight lines.... I would rather do a lot of beadwork with straight designs rather then florals... but I would rather wear florals then geometrics... I make a good mix dont I, lol.. not even.

I wish I knew what you were talking about too.....

Ok its offline time, lol
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Old 02-27-2003, 06:58 PM   #16
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i don really think it matters, cuz everyone on the pow wow trail copies each other newayz like dresses, hair ropes, fans, designs and all that jazz. And we all are native and we share everything execpt for our partners (lol)
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Old 02-28-2003, 12:04 AM   #17
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From someone that sews, I don't think it is the floral part that upsets some southern folks. I think it lies in the style of the clothing and they way they are fashioned.

I incorporate some floral design in my ribbonwork but only if it was part of that tribe. Example: Otoes/Iowas wear a floral style - not on velvet and usually not beaded. A tulip, basic flower or leaf of some sort attached to a design. Never completely floral. Comanche and Kiowa that I have made are geometric or animal related, Apache is a star pattern. These are a few that I have made recently.

There are certain ways the skirts and blouses are made and outfits put together. Placement of ribbonwork and whatnot is a key factor. That is what determines the "tribal style". I think this is where the problem arises and it is usually from someone that saw it and said "I want a dress like that" and poof they have it. There are some around here that will sew anything for anybody as long as they get paid. I tend to be more selective. I also don't think that I would put a Crow, Ojib, or Cree design on someone unless I was sure they had the right to wear it.

I admire the Ojib style, Crow style and several Plaines styles but wouldn't dream of making one for myself. I was taught that if someone thinks enough of you, it will be taken care of for you in a proper manner.

These are just my thoughts......

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Old 02-28-2003, 10:09 PM   #18
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lmao Ojibwe stylez... just like on that 70s show, "you kids trade partners more than square dancers!!".:Chatter Yeh I hear ya straightdancer, .. we're thinkin alike. Even though I'm married to a Navajo, I still haven't incorporated their designs onto my dresses, my husband even designed one for me with their geometric designs and put my Ojibwe floral in it, does that give me the right to wear it I wonder? I think I would feel funny, my mother-in-law tied my hair up in a traditional bun once and I felt all odd when we went into Chinle cuz maaaan, I got that northern look for sure. LOL. Huh, what do ya's think about this?
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