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Old 03-28-2007, 01:51 PM   #1
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Question Osage Bustles

I just saw two tail bustles that were labeled - Osage.

They both looked like Crow bustles. It is said the Osage (Wahzhazhe) had the man dance Ilonska before it was reintroduced to them by the Kaw and Ponca.

I wonder if these bustles were used in "pre-history?"

I wonder how many bustle keepers wore them during the Inlonska ceremonies.

I wonder.....
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Old 03-28-2007, 05:52 PM   #2
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Hey WhoMe... bustles weren't just a man dance thing as I understand it, but were about war honors, hence they could be worn in the man dance by the elected people. Outside the dance, anyone who had the rights could wear on in battle, and when serving as hunt police.... Fletcher and LaFlesche's Omaha Tribe goes into this....

So, I'm thinking that the Osages proably had bustles before they had the Inlonschka.... but I also think its possible that they had the Inlonschka once upon a time, lost it, and then restarted w/ Ponca and Kaw help as you suggest.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw a couple of links at you to a pipe from the Adena archaeological complex. This pipe was "excavated" from a mound near Chillocothe (sp?) Ohio, and prabably dates to 500 BC - 0 or so... adena stuff is notoriously hard to date, and the excavations were often less than scupulous.... in other words, the mounds were often dug up in little more than university or museum sanctioned looting. Ok, enough diatribe - here's the links:

Front side, full view: http://www.ohiokids.org/adenahouse/ap-l.html

Back side, detail view of the bustle: http://bp1.blogger.com/_lSZAWTcQ2tA/...rse+detail.JPG

Check out the exhibition catalog "Hero Hawk and Open Hand." Some of the essays in there link some of the later mississippian archaeological stuff to Ancestral Osages or Dehigans.... and Mississippian stuff grows directly out of earlier Hopewell and Adena archaeological stuff.

Also, I've noticed that this pipe was made of a particular kind of 2 color pipestone, so the front of the pipe is white-ish, while the back is reddish.... Personally, I've always wondered if that tied into the red/white divisions in Southeastern cultures. In that case, if red = war, then its really interesting that the bustle (a war honor) was carved on the red side of the stone..... who knows, maybe SE tribes used to have some kinda man dance thing or used bustles like 1000 years ago?
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:42 PM   #3
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i was also told a story once about bustles, that they used to be about the size if not smaller than a crow style. and that they where only wore by the highest of warriors, kinda like a general would be today. the point was that the different clans or war parties would have a certain bustle that they would fallow and it was part of the war tactics of the old ones, so that no sounds where made to direct the group....kinda like the eagle staff was used....

i dont know the truth in that but it sounded cool....
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:07 AM   #4
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I will be interested in seeing more information about this topic.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:36 PM   #5
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[QUOTE=WhoMe;908973]I just saw two tail bustles that were labeled - Osage.

They both looked like Crow bustles. It is said the Osage (Wahzhazhe) had the man dance Ilonska before it was QUOTE]

How nomadic were the Osage in the "old days" could some of this bustle style come from the northern neighbors??
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Old 03-29-2007, 05:02 PM   #6
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Interesting.

I wonder...

Perhaps the Osage came upon in a trade of some sort, or the person was honored with the bustle.

If only it could talk...
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:22 PM   #7
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To my understanding, even before the Osages had oil and got the Inlonska from the Poncas and Kaw, that they were a tribe that did a lot of trading, and were well off from that also. I could be totally wrong, so maybe someone else could trow out a few ideas.
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Old 03-29-2007, 09:40 PM   #8
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I am not all that hip on my archeology or book learned ethnology, but I was told a couple of things when I was dancing in Oklahoma "in the olden days." One person told me that the Wichita received a bustle bundle, that it had a keeper, that the keeper would open the bundle at specific times of the year to care for it in a certain way.

Clyde Warrior, Ponca, said that he heard that the old Osage war dance had to do with planting a stump in center of the dance circle. The warriors would dance and occasionally hit the stump with a club [like maybe a ball headed club tomahawk]. Did some of them wear bustles? Don't know.

See Harold L. Peterson, "American Indian Tomahawks". Figures 1,2,4,6,7.
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:09 PM   #9
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hmmm

well if u ask around oklahoma u will find that straight dance was originally danced with bustles. the Omaha bustle is as much a part of straight dance as the otter trail. the us army outlawed all native ceremonies and away went the bustle. the Omaha still use the bustle. i even dance with the Omaha bustle. uncle Tim Grant showed me the correct way to make it as well as the story behind the Omaha bustle. maybe thats something that can make a come back to straight. lol, who knows.
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:52 AM   #10
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From what I got told, it is important to understand the bustles were not just dance grip as they filled a number of purposes. A lot of folks now and days have forgotten the place of the bustle in the ceremony to the point that I have heard folks discussing at their benches someone who wears a bustle in the formal because it is not straight dance clothes so it must be wrong. From what I was told it has a place there. I have also been told that a lot of folks don't wear them out of respect to the people that wore them back in the day and what they had to do to earn the right to wear them. Personally I like seeing the bustle when it shows up at the formals I go to. Also, it is always a good feeling to see it out at the Kiowa dance.
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Old 11-13-2007, 02:20 PM   #11
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When I was at Ponca in October, there was a dancer who wore a round bustle to the evening session. He was introduced, but I couldn't hear most of it so I can't speak to the significance of him wearing it. It caught my eye as it wasn't a traditional bustle in the sense of a traditional dancer. Just my $.02.
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Old 11-13-2007, 02:39 PM   #12
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the bustle

well if any one wants info on the straight dance bustle or the Omaha bustle, then all you have to do is go to Macy,Ne. every aspect of the Omaha bustle has a meaning. and yes it was a great honor to wear one. thats where the grass dance comes from. those warriors who didnt have the right to wear the bustle would wear two sweet grass braids in the back of their belt to represent the bustle. even today the sioux call the grass dance the non bustle grass dance. so as the late Browning Pipestem would say one would have to be a big dogg to put one of those on and try to dance with it. lol. and where is erwin at i would have figured him to have jumped all over this one. this deals with his tribe in specific.
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Old 11-13-2007, 05:19 PM   #13
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tcumonster: He was also at the previous Ponca dance and talked about his bustle at one of the water breaks.

The bustles being talked about look nothing like a modern day tradish bustle. There were a LOT of different parts/ feathers/ and so on. Can you say mojo? I know you could!
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:17 AM   #14
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Check out this link:


NMAI National Powwow 2007

Then go to: Evolution of War Dance (Helushka)



Whatcha' think?


The actual interviews along with many others, give tons of additional information on the origins of powwows, dances, songs, regalia, etc. Unfortunately they are not available to the public because they have not been processed from their original form.
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Old 11-14-2007, 02:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Albert View Post
tcumonster: He was also at the previous Ponca dance and talked about his bustle at one of the water breaks.

The bustles being talked about look nothing like a modern day tradish bustle. There were a LOT of different parts/ feathers/ and so on. Can you say mojo? I know you could!
I didn't get a chance to see it up close, but at a distance you could tell it was more than a "regular" bustle. I wish I could have heard what was being said...dang loud music.
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Old 11-17-2007, 08:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ANGELO View Post
well if u ask around oklahoma u will find that straight dance was originally danced with bustles. the Omaha bustle is as much a part of straight dance as the otter trail. the us army outlawed all native ceremonies and away went the bustle. the Omaha still use the bustle...
Two Omaha Bustles - 1907
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Last edited by Historian; 11-17-2007 at 08:51 PM..
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Old 11-21-2007, 10:35 AM   #17
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The gentleman with the Omaha bustle and who has danced at two Ponca hethuskas, is Taylor Keen. I'm pretty sure he's a member of the Omaha hethuska. He has also run for Cherokee tribal offices in Oklahoma.
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