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-   -   Otter Cap with roach (http://forums.powwows.com/f13/otter-cap-roach-46375/)

travelingmocs 07-30-2008 02:04 PM

Otter Cap with roach
 
This year I have noticed a trend of wearing a plain otter cap with and roach. Now this caps I assumed from old pictures I have seen were signs of chiefs with certin tribes. Juquian Hamilton looks awsome out there with his.... But why are peps doing this? May reviving a old tradition?

luvstraightdancrs 07-31-2008 09:56 AM

I think it is for the look. It certainly isn't "tradition". If it was, those wearing it would know better - especially those that belong to tribes that believe in having the right to wear these things. Kinda like everyone wearing bear claws......

I just think that they are all looking for an edge - something different to grab attention. They ought to be mindful of the traditional meaning behind these things and if they are entitled to wear them. Especially if they are calling themselves "old school or traditional people".

Fat Albert 08-01-2008 03:22 PM

Yup... I agree. Maybe the yarn turbans will be the next trend? I see that every once in a while but I have not seen it in contest. But I have not been every where or seen every thing.

Historian 08-05-2008 09:28 AM

Tradition ===> Trend ===> Tradition

CHEROSAGE 08-07-2008 03:17 AM

Could it be that they heard it here first and want to be one of the cool kids?

We just report the facts you decide!

ANGELO 09-10-2008 04:27 PM

lol
 
this was discussed in another thread. but if u wana know what an individual dancer has as meaning to his regalia, then just go up and ask him or her. the otterturban and roach combo is not new or a trend. it is still practiced in northern wisconsin by the tribes who wore it traditionally. its funny tho cuz why dont we just stop assuming why a dancer dances the way he does or why he or she wears something and just let people do their things? it seems that some of you guys on here want to be chief and wish for people to come to you for answers or "permission" lol. as i was taught in Omaha country, you shouldnt put yourself in front of others and you should be humble. so enuff with the who you think has rights because traditionally these things belongs to warriors and if they are warriors, then you might get into a fight by telling a man he cant wear something because of your opion, lol.

shawndaes 09-11-2008 10:31 AM

I agree that if you have questions about what someones wearing or how they're dancing just ask them. With that being said its called TRADITIONAL! I say be proud of your tribe and carry on traditions as they have been cause they mean something. Honor your family. There are still people that judge contest and take how traditional one is into concideration, not how cool they look. And if you think it looks cool to wear something a warrior would wear, join the military.

ANGELO 09-11-2008 11:46 AM

yup
 
i agree that if one wants warrior rights, then join the military. i dont feel that the military can give true warrior status, but it can be one way to get warrior rights, lol, if u catch what im saying. some tribes use the military as a way to warrior status now tho. yet if u are a tribal lawyer or tribal cop or someone who works with ur tribe on programs that help youth or elders then you can be a warrior. this is my opion tho. yet the military can be a good way to get these "rights" i guess. the character rambo is based on a choctaw from wwi, members of the crow nation and the three affiliated tribes would steal horses from the germans in wwi. the kiowa, sioux, navajo, commanche, and many other tribes used their warrior ways to fight the enemy of the united states. even now there is a group of natives that the us use to track bin laden. but if one is judging a dancer and sees a certain article on their outfit and doesnt pick them because they think they use that for cosmetics only, then that judge is wrong. be an adult and ask that dancer why they wear thatand express ur dislike to that person. lol. then tell us on here what they did to you, lol.

Historian 09-12-2008 01:28 PM

Can old traditions with old meanings be incorporated into new traditions with new meanings?

WhoMe 09-12-2008 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Historian (Post 1208365)
Can old traditions with old meanings be incorporated into new traditions with new meanings?



SURE!

Today individuals run sundances, sweats, vision quests and charge "mazaska" (d. silver coins = Money) to the tourists to participate!!!:quiet:

shawndaes 09-12-2008 03:23 PM

can old tr
 
Hummm. Good question, maybe in some circumstances. Do you have and example? There is meaning to the dance, a reason why things are worn. It identifies my tribe/standing and I'm proud of that. Maybe they should come up a new catagory called "New Traditional" so people can throw their own spin on things.

WhoMe 09-12-2008 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawndaes (Post 1208434)
There is meaning to the dance, a reason why things are worn. It identifies my tribe/standing and I'm proud of that.


Shawn,

You brought up some good points.

I asked someone about this thread. They said, "think about this, would you wear a medal of honor, a bronze and a silver star in public, if you didn't earn it?"


Hmmm?

ANGELO 09-12-2008 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoMe (Post 1208469)
Shawn,

You brought up some good points.

I asked someone about this thread. They said, "think about this, would you wear a medal of honor, a bronze and a silver star in public, if you didn't earn it?"


Hmmm?



wow i like that answer. this is a good way to look at it, but would you wear a us navy seal pin if you wasnt a seal? so with that why dance and wear the uniform of a warrior society if you are not a member? it would be like wearing a seal pin if you aint even in the navy. lol. so then powwows would have to cease to be and what tradition would we leave for our kids to enjoy? nobody on here is a real traditional hethuska member accept for some omaha or poncas. and even then who has done warrior tasks that was done say a hundred years ago? i mean what sioux has killed a crow or pawnee and has gone to their tribe for honors? lol. so you either want it to die out all the way or let it prevail.

ewoaf 09-13-2008 09:58 PM

I know of, and have seen old pictures of, people where my wife is from (great lakes area.) I have seen fingerwoven sash turban w/ roach a lot. I have also seen that in the SE a bit too. Can't say I've seen otter cap w/ roach, but it wouldn't suprise me. I might have. So I know this is an old phenomenon. I think it looks ok. Seems to me like they were just trying to keep their heads warm while still wearing a roach.
So what do we say about this "warrior status" issue? Where do we draw the line as far as who need what rights to wear what? I've encountered people who think you have to be a warrior to even wear eagle feathers, so what about little johnny 12 y/o with an eagle bustle? Or heck...lets just say roaches..I'd be interested to hear what people think. I can't say I'm sure what I even think.
maybe I'll just go w/ historian's trad-trend-trad.

Historian 09-14-2008 04:03 PM

IMHO, I think it is up to the Headman in each warrior society organization, be it Ponca hethuska, Osage Inlonschka, Pawnee Iruska, Comanche War Dance Organization, or whatever, to set down guidelines of what is acceptable dress with well understood meanings, for members within their organizations. (BTW - Some organizations have "Veterans only" memberships, and some organizations do not require members to be Veterans.)

For Straight Dancers not involved with membership in a warrior society organization, I believe they should have the knowledge and respect to wear what is appropriate for the style and tribal tradition they represent.

ewoaf 09-14-2008 07:54 PM

I think that was a perfect answer..That's prety much it..depends on the society, tribe, family, etc. ie Perspective..
Problem is, what happens when some one views another dancer within thier own guidlines and standards..problems are caused.

Kiwehnzii 09-14-2008 08:13 PM

When I went to Morongo last year, I received a look, I believe, because of my otter hat. I am Anishinaabe, so.... it's what I wear.

This is a straight dancing thread, so what is said about straight dancers wearing otter caps doesn't pertain to me.

We have our way, straight dancers have theirs.

shawndaes 09-15-2008 10:06 AM

See thats unfortunate. I'm not afraid to ask questions and people have allways given me a kind answer. It should never hurt to ask a question. However I have seen people ask a simple question and get no answer. Instead that person blows it out of porportion, thinking it was an insult. There is only bad feelings and no answer. That is not what a powwow is about. I hear of this more and more every powwow.

legalstraight 09-15-2008 05:47 PM

This is a good thread,,,,
I now live up in the great lakes area too, and even on straight dancers I see otter turbans, sometimes it's related to societies or sometimes it is just the tradition of that person's tribe (I can think of one or two fellas who are straight dancers even though they are from northern tribes). But at this point I am happy to see anyone else with a dragger at a powwow.
I have seen this otter and roach look on mesquakies(?) from over in Iowa. never asked if it was related to their dance or not. I just thought the guys was ashamed to look like Mr. Clean. aayyee.

WhoMe 09-15-2008 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANGELO (Post 1208548)
... nobody on here is a real traditional hethuska member accept for some omaha or poncas...



Oh. This is going to get fun....:hypocrite


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