[Gischihan_Sr]

In the last year or so, I noticed more straight dancers wear what appears to be a Shawl wrapped around their waist over their aprons. What is the significance of this? Does it represent something special or did they have a spare and decide to wear it

[Joe's Dad]

I thought it was just an extra long shirt.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

Originally Posted by Gischihan_Sr

In the last year or so, I noticed more straight dancers wear what appears to be a Shawl wrapped around their waist over their aprons. What is the significance of this? Does it represent something special or did they have a spare and decide to wear it

I took theses pictures at Gathering Of Nations 2013, a Kiowa Brush Dance to honor Head Woman Dancer Michelle Flying Man

[Josiah]

Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay

I took theses pictures at Gathering Of Nations 2013, a Kiowa Brush Dance to honor Head Woman Dancer Michelle Flying Man

These are Gourd Dancers not Straight Dancers, they are Members of the Kiowa Gourd Clan.
I don't know why a straight dancer would wear a shawl around their waist while straight Dancing. I know a few respected Kiowa Straight Dancers and have never seen them wear the shawl
Actually the only place I have seen many dancers wearing the shawl would be during the Annual 4th of July celebrations in and around Carnegie Oklahoma but we are Gourd Dancing...

@AmigoKumeyaay did they announce that they were brush dancing? Curious because they look to be Gourd Dancing, Brush dancing is usually only done during the Annual Celebration the drum is carried and the men follow in the brush boys

[Joe's Dad]

I saw a young guy with what I thought was long fringe on their aprons. I need to pay more attention.

[DeafElderWoman]

Originally Posted by Gischihan_Sr

In the last year or so, I noticed more straight dancers wear what appears to be a Shawl wrapped around their waist over their aprons. What is the significance of this? Does it represent something special or did they have a spare and decide to wear it

There were some native women who wore aprons in the traditional regalia in different tribes. Most often, most women carried their traditional shawls over their arms while dancing. No, I have never seen shawls wrapped around their waist over their aprons. That is new to me.

Where did you see that and what tribe do they wore their shawls over the aprons?

I think it might be Mexico or other country that they do that. I am guessing.

[Josiah]

Originally Posted by DeafElderWoman

There were some native women who wore aprons in the traditional regalia in different tribes. Most often, most women carried their traditional shawls over their arms while dancing. No, I have never seen shawls wrapped around their waist over their aprons. That is new to me.

Where did you see that and what tribe do they wore their shawls over the aprons?

I think it might be Mexico or other country that they do that. I am guessing.

No this is different not a woman's shawl it is worn by Kiowa and Commanche while Gourd Dancing. When I say shawl it with fringe. I have seen white material wrapped around the waist also but not fringed. I have also seen some Commanche men wear a black wrap during there man dance that was restarted again by Wallace Coffee

[Str8Dancer49]

This topic comes up from time to time, but it's been covered going way back, like in this thread from 2003: black shawl wraps

Just a quick note - and I in no way mean any disrespect to Josiah - but Wallace didn't restart anything. He's the current headman of the Comanche's man dance group, but it was originally restarted in 1969 by Melvin Kerchee, Sr., and Forrest Kassanavoid (and a couple other guys I can't remember right at the moment) under the guidance of the Poncas. There's been several old discussions of this issue too, about who got what from who in terms of Hethushka.

Anyway, the black waist shawl is not a symbol of the Comanche's man dance society, which gets into my old (12 years ago!) post from that thread I linked above:

Basically, I've only seen Kiowas wear them if they were members of TonKonGat - the Black Legs/Leggins Society. This is a highly respected veterans society and their symbols - the waist shawl, Ghoulayee's red cape, the bonnets, the Tipi with Battle Paintings - are guarded and cared for very deeply.

For Comanche folks, that waist shawl is called a Pitskwinawi (closest I could get to the Comanche pronunciation!). From what I've been told by Comanche folks, these were origianlly a society emblem of the Tuuwii or Black Knife society, which has been revived in the past couple of decades, primarily under the Sovo family's leadership. In a battle long ago, these warriors went up against Mexican soldiers protecting a town. They took the dark steel swords of the soldiers, and the black shawls of the women, and used them as society emblems. The name Tuuwii refers to these swords, but also has multiple other meanings, especially in reference to the beaks of ravens - a patron animal of the society's warriors - and to the wings of the red-wing blackbird - which look like blood-stained black knives. The Battle Dresses worn by the female assistants in the Tuuwii are black w/ red sleeves and gussetts and also make reference to the red-winged black bird (Kiowa Battle Dresses are dark blue and red). In that battle where these Comanche warriors claimed these trophies, their Kiowa allies, including Ghoulayee, also got black shawls and Ghoulayee ripped the red cape from an officers neck while pushing his face away with his bloodied bare hand. Therefore, people will ask if you have the right to wear one.

However, and this is where this issue becomes tricky, the pitskwinawi has become a kind of symbol of "Comancheness" and is worn by many Comanches who aren't in Tuuwii. Some Comanche families who have dressed other NDNs and even some non-NDNs in Comanche clothes have given those people permission to wear the shawl. Jerry Harjo and Justin Yerby are two Straight Dancers who come to mind in this regard - both are NDNs, but from southeastern tribes - but both have been given permission to wear that shawl by particular Comanche families.

Interestingly, a handful of Ponca folks who I've talked to, especially those involved with Helushka, tend to view that shawl as an emblem of the Comanche War Dance Society. In theory, that's not the case, but in practice, there's a lot of overlap as men can be in more than one society if they can manage all those responsibilities. The current head man for the Comanche War Dance Society has served as the camp crier for the Tuuwii, so the origin of this confusion is understandable.

As for children wearing those shawls - I've seen it before, but wearing one is a responsibility, and one that many kids - or adults for that matter - don't understand.

P. S. - I'm from southeastern tribes, but was dressed in Comanche clothes over 10 years ago, including a pitskwinawi. Just last weekend, an elder Comanche lady asked me who gave me permission to wear it - so you can see that it's not something that folks take lightly. I've even seen a Comanche guy tell a hobbyist point blank to go take his shawl off since he didn't have the right or permission to wear one.

[Josiah]

Originally Posted by Str8Dancer49

This topic comes up from time to time, but it's been covered going way back, like in this thread from 2003: black shawl wraps

Just a quick note - and I in no way mean any disrespect to Josiah - but Wallace didn't restart anything. He's the current headman of the Comanche's man dance group, but it was originally restarted in 1969 by Melvin Kerchee, Sr., and Forrest Kassanavoid (and a couple other guys I can't remember right at the moment) under the guidance of the Poncas. There's been several old discussions of this issue too, about who got what from who in terms of Hethushka.

Anyway, the black waist shawl is not a symbol of the Comanche's man dance society, which gets into my old (12 years ago!) post from that thread I linked above:

good post! I meant recently but he did talk about Melvin starting it back up!

[AmigoKumeyaay]

Originally Posted by Josiah

@AmigoKumeyaay did they announce that they were brush dancing? Curious because they look to be Gourd Dancing, Brush dancing is usually only done during the Annual Celebration the drum is carried and the men follow in the brush boys

I took notes since I did not video this part...The big guy mentioned Brush Dance...... but then they had Michelle standing on the blanket in front of them for her Honoring as Head Woman at GON.

maybe I did not catch everything he was saying.

[Josiah]

Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay

I took notes since I did not video this part...The big guy mentioned Brush Dance...... but then they had Michelle standing on the blanket in front of them for her Honoring as Head Woman at GON.

maybe I did not catch everything he was saying.

The big guy is Tim Tsoodle headsman of the Kiowa Gourd Clan, I believe they were honoring her and that they mentioned the brush dance as a part of the 3 day celebration in Carnegie Oklahoma. In a Brush Dance the women do not actually enter the arena they are around the edge.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

https://youtu.be/Za4Fsyxl40Y

[Josiah]

Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay

https://youtu.be/Za4Fsyxl40Y

Seen alot of Okies in that video! Dance with most of them one time or another lol