Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Crafts > Beadwork The Ethics of Beading The Ethics of Beading

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-21-2005, 01:20 AM   #1
Traditional Dancer
 
Cutbead Queen's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Cutbead Queen is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 93
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
The Ethics of Beading

I was recently approached by someone who is native to bead an entire set of regalia for their teenager. The design they approached me with was not specific to their tribe and I was even provided several photographs of someone else’s beadwork that they expected me to copy almost exactly. Why is it acceptable for natives to steal each others designs? Why then do we get so upset when white people mimic us culturally? What they want is northern regalia and they are clearly from the southwest - all traditional acting, too.

I would like to know if any other beaders on this forum get as ticked off as I do when you know someone is not only wearing a set or piece of beadwork that has a design on it that has absolutely no significance to them, their family or their tribe. They are just merely wearing it because they decided they wanted to dance a certian style, found a design they liked and stole it outright by copying it or paid someone else to bead it for them.

I refused to bead for them but I know that they will find someone else who will.

Would you bead a design knowing that it is out right copying and or not tribally appropriate?
__________________
Where the spirit does not work with the hand there is no art." - Leonardo Da Vinci

"I found I could say things with my beads that I couldn't say any other way....things I had no words for" - Eva McAdams Eastern Shoshone
Cutbead Queen is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-21-2005, 02:23 AM   #2
Lovin' life,
 
Mato Winyan's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,450
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 260.00
Savings: 1.00
If I knew they were copying a design colors and all..... I would tell em naw hell! No way. Sure they may get someone else..... but at least my conscience would be clear.

As for the tribally appropriate.......that's a more personal decision. Not really sure what I would think. Would depend on the circumstance at the time I guess. While I may think it is weird.....and may not agree with them, it's not hurting another.
__________________
"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume
Mato Winyan is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-21-2005, 05:41 AM   #3
Warrior Woman
 
biggurlbrain's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
biggurlbrain is just really nice
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: north of the big border
Posts: 197
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Smile stealing designs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutbead Queen
I was recently approached by someone who is native to bead an entire set of regalia for their teenager. The design they approached me with was not specific to their tribe and I was even provided several photographs of someone else’s beadwork that they expected me to copy almost exactly. Why is it acceptable for natives to steal each others designs? Why then do we get so upset when white people mimic us culturally? What they want is northern regalia and they are clearly from the southwest - all traditional acting, too.

I would like to know if any other beaders on this forum get as ticked off as I do when you know someone is not only wearing a set or piece of beadwork that has a design on it that has absolutely no significance to them, their family or their tribe. They are just merely wearing it because they decided they wanted to dance a certian style, found a design they liked and stole it outright by copying it or paid someone else to bead it for them.

I refused to bead for them but I know that they will find someone else who will.

Would you bead a design knowing that it is out right copying and or not tribally appropriate?
i had always thought that a person's outfit was sacred. that a design is meant only for that person. so i agree that u shouldnt do it. i was just discussing the tribally appropriate thing with my sister the other day. i think that you should only dance a style of another tribe if you married onto it, or your best friend forever is from there, like you were raised in that culture. i don't like the idea of us canadians dancing women's southern buckskin for example because we might unintentionally disrespect that tribe because of ignorance. on the other hand none of us could dance jingle cause we ain't all objibway.
__________________
it's been a long time, shouldn't have left u.
biggurlbrain is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-21-2005, 02:08 PM   #4
the legal plumes lady!
 
walela49's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
walela49 has a reputation beyond repute
walela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond reputewalela49 has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: www.walela49.com
Posts: 1,167
Credits: 112.00
Savings: 0.00
i feel the same way....i cant believe anyone would be that open about copying somebody's outfiit...providing pictures...sheeesh!

this is why i get so nervous when i post pics on the web...i dont want anybody copying my stuff...but you gotta post pics if you wanna get orders for work. guess that's a risk we artists have to take these days...modern technology and all!
walela49 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-21-2005, 02:20 PM   #5
Junior Dancer
 
Mezzobean's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mezzobean has a spectacular aura about
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 249
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutbead Queen
I would like to know if any other beaders on this forum get as ticked off as I do when you know someone is not only wearing a set or piece of beadwork that has a design on it that has absolutely no significance to them, their family or their tribe. They are just merely wearing it because they decided they wanted to dance a certian style, found a design they liked and stole it outright by copying it or paid someone else to bead it for them.
I would like to add the perspective of a fledgling beader who is not Native American . . .

Let me start out by saying that I would not copy anyone else's designs without their specific permission no matter what the reason. No exceptions.

That said, however, those of us who are not Native, but who are drawn to the drum and want to dance at PowWows (not talking contests here) must make a concious decision about what dance to dance (other than Intertribals) and how to best honor that dance in how we dress.

At the moment I dance only Intertribals, in respectful street clothes with my shawl, but I want that to change. For now I am watching and asking questions when I may and trying to learn. Sometime in the next year I will make a choice and begin to make regalia.

I cannot deny that I want to make something I can bead! However, I trust that while I have no tribe, my design choices will be influenced by my respect for Native ways and values and reflect also something of who I am. I think if I bead from my heart my respect will show and I will not look like a white woman 'playing Indian.'

Forgive me if this is rude to say in public, but I think the people who asked you to copycat the design for them are too lazy to look inside themselves for their own design. I applaude you, Cutbead Queen, for your stand and refusal to do the work requested.
Mezzobean is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-21-2005, 03:36 PM   #6
Happy Beading Woman
 
ac_miss's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond repute
ac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond reputeac_miss has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,911
Blog Entries: 3
Credits: 9,362.68
Savings: 1.00
Did they know what they were asking??? What were those people thinking? That's crazy to copy someone's work like that. Originality is best.
__________________
Bead All You Can Bead
ac_miss is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-21-2005, 07:36 PM   #7
Jinglin fool...
 
n8tivechick's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
n8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond reputen8tivechick has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: YES! There really is a Kalamazoo, Michigan!
Posts: 320
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezzobean
I would like to add the perspective of a fledgling beader who is not Native American . . .

Let me start out by saying that I would not copy anyone else's designs without their specific permission no matter what the reason. No exceptions.

That said, however, those of us who are not Native, but who are drawn to the drum and want to dance at PowWows (not talking contests here) must make a concious decision about what dance to dance (other than Intertribals) and how to best honor that dance in how we dress.

At the moment I dance only Intertribals, in respectful street clothes with my shawl, but I want that to change. For now I am watching and asking questions when I may and trying to learn. Sometime in the next year I will make a choice and begin to make regalia.

I cannot deny that I want to make something I can bead! However, I trust that while I have no tribe, my design choices will be influenced by my respect for Native ways and values and reflect also something of who I am. I think if I bead from my heart my respect will show and I will not look like a white woman 'playing Indian.'

Forgive me if this is rude to say in public, but I think the people who asked you to copycat the design for them are too lazy to look inside themselves for their own design. I applaude you, Cutbead Queen, for your stand and refusal to do the work requested.
I definetly would not copy anyones work. And as for the north and south thing i also think that is a personal decision. I am not Ojibway but i am a jingle dancer.

As for Mezzobean, it is great that you are accepting of the native ways. And no you were not rude. But i don't want to be rude either and i think you should dance if you are drawn to it, but make sure you have enough knowledge in that particular style. Also there will be people out there that will not want you in the circle because you are a non-native, just let then think that and get on with your life. There are quite a few "non-natives" that i know that respect the native culture more then some blood natives do. Power to ya!
~kelli
__________________
If you lose the drum beat of the creator, you are lost in life - Aanishnabe

You say I don't look indian? Well you don't look stupid, but looks can be deceiving!
n8tivechick is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-21-2005, 08:03 PM   #8
Junior Dancer
 
Mezzobean's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mezzobean has a spectacular aura about
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 249
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by n8tivechick
As for Mezzobean, it is great that you are accepting of the native ways. And no you were not rude. But i don't want to be rude either and i think you should dance if you are drawn to it, but make sure you have enough knowledge in that particular style. Also there will be people out there that will not want you in the circle because you are a non-native, just let then think that and get on with your life. There are quite a few "non-natives" that i know that respect the native culture more then some blood natives do. Power to ya!
~kelli
Thanks for the encouragement, n8tivechick . . . I will definitely not dance in public any dance that I have not practiced and checked out with someone I trust to be honest with me about how I'm doing with it.

As for not being welcome in the circle, that is something I understand and can even accept. As a non-Native I consider it a priviledge to dance to the drum, not a right. I have not met anyone yet with objections, but I have danced only Intertribals where the MC has welcomed all present to come into the circle.

My Abenaki friend who started me unknowingly on this road when she invited me to her mother's memorial PowWow 2 years ago says the same thing you did about some non-Native people respecting Native ways even more than some Native people she knows. I'm going to do my best and hope for the best from others!
Mezzobean is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-22-2005, 01:09 PM   #9
Ready to dance
 
wyo_rose's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantGuitarPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Back and Forth
Posts: 16,510
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 63,056.53
Savings: 0.00
wyo_rose is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-22-2005, 08:35 PM   #10
Honey Connoissuer
 
Blackbear's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Blackbear has a reputation beyond repute
Blackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Alaska
Posts: 9,817
Credits: 546.23
Savings: 1.00
is that your final answer Wyorose? LOL
__________________
Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.
Blackbear is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-23-2005, 09:02 PM   #11
~~~ Jedi Color Guard ~~~
 
SingingDeer's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
SingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond repute
SingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond reputeSingingDeer has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Washington State
Posts: 13,618
Credits: 105.03
Savings: 1.00
I was taught that it is VERY inappropriate to copy someone else's pattern exactly. Almost any artist dislikes having their work copied.

However if there were some similarities to their work and distinct artistic differences, the piece would not be an exact copy.

I would not copy something that is in someones regalia... not for myself and not for someone else. I would, however, make something to match an existing piece if the person requesting the new item also owned and wore the original item in their own personal regalia.
__________________
"Liberty is the one thing you can't have unless you give it to others."
~ Wm A White


"We could learn a lot from a box of crayons:
some sharp, some pretty, some dull,
some have weird names, & all different colors,
but they have to learn to live in the same box." ~ Anon
SingingDeer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-23-2005, 09:32 PM   #12
Junior Dancer
 
Mezzobean's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mezzobean has a spectacular aura about
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 249
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingingDeer
I would not copy something that is in someones regalia... not for myself and not for someone else. I would, however, make something to match an existing piece if the person requesting the new item also owned and wore the original item in their own personal regalia.
That makes good sense - I'm sure there are many people who can't afford what they'd like to wear all at once, and if they are just adding to something they already wear and the design is their own, it seems ok . . .
Mezzobean is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-24-2005, 10:15 AM   #13
Traditional Dancer
 
Cutbead Queen's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Cutbead Queen is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 93
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggurlbrain
i had always thought that a person's outfit was sacred. that a design is meant only for that person. so i agree that u shouldnt do it. i was just discussing the tribally appropriate thing with my sister the other day. i think that you should only dance a style of another tribe if you married onto it, or your best friend forever is from there, like you were raised in that culture. i don't like the idea of us canadians dancing women's southern buckskin for example because we might unintentionally disrespect that tribe because of ignorance. on the other hand none of us could dance jingle cause we ain't all objibway.
Thanks for your input, I too, believe the designs on ones regalia are a part of them. My designs have stong family and tribal significance, that can be traced back to pre-reservation times. Certian patterns we only bead on certian regalia (mens, womans) I was taught that along time ago not only could another tribe tell which tribe you were from by your beadwork, but within your tribe you could tell what family you were from. I'm proud to wear my regalia, it states strongly my tribe and my family.

Like many of you I was absolutely shocked by this woman!!!When I told her about my designs and where they came from, she didn't seem detoured or even bothered by her request of me to bead someone else's design. I must also add that, she really was not changing much (less then 10%) and keeping the orginal colors just changing the background.

I must admit, I have seen some people try to bead my families designs and it really did upset me. But, an elder family member said to me "They can't and never ever will be able to truly bead our patterns the way we do." I have to admit, the copies do look pretty sad next to ours.

Thanks for all of your input, I thought I was in the twilight zone for awhile with this woman thinking, did I miss something in Indian country, is it okay to copy designs now?
__________________
Where the spirit does not work with the hand there is no art." - Leonardo Da Vinci

"I found I could say things with my beads that I couldn't say any other way....things I had no words for" - Eva McAdams Eastern Shoshone
Cutbead Queen is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-24-2005, 04:22 PM   #14
Honey Connoissuer
 
Blackbear's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Blackbear has a reputation beyond repute
Blackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Alaska
Posts: 9,817
Credits: 546.23
Savings: 1.00
A couple of quick questions though..

1) did you find out if maybe the person in the picture was a family member?
2) did you ask them if they had permission to use this pattern?

I totally agree with not copying someone else's work, but the thought occured to me ,what if this was like a cousin or relative, or even the father in the pic. How do we know without asking. But then, how do we know they won't lie either?
__________________
Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.
Blackbear is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-24-2005, 08:44 PM   #15
Peace n Mutton Grease
 
Nezbah's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Nezbah has a reputation beyond repute
Nezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond reputeNezbah has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ober here in NM
Posts: 946
Credits: 511.00
Savings: 1.00
Well I am about education here. And maybe the most appropriate way was to 'advise' them what they were doing was wrong. Then suggesting you could either help them with a new design more appropriate for them or help them come up with their own designs or 'family logo's'. If they don't know what they are doing is wrong, then they'll keep doing it. Honestly, I see alot of southwestern families doing this with northern regalia.

I am dine' and my son is a grassdancer. However, my adopted dad is lakota (singer/drum keeper) and he's the one I learned everything from. Obviously, grassdancing is not a part of Dine' culture or traditions. However, I try to respect both ways, using my designs to represent our culture, using colors that are Dine' nation colors, and yet respecting the northern traditions at the same time. Yes, it can be difficult but it can be done.

I think its sooo wrong to steal someone's design. I guess if you see your own design being used by someone else try to take in grace that they thought your design was beautiful enough to copy but then again tell them how you feel too.

I display my work at flea markets and powwow's. But I tell everyone, this is my SON'S own design, I can help you create your own look or you can use a symbol or design that belongs to your family. However, I will not copy my son's design for someone else.

Yes, us artists know that our designs may be copied, etc. That is just how it is especially when we dance or 'show' our stuff in public.

I don't know, do you know how to get a trademark for your work? Does anyone have information on this? I would like to know. :D
__________________
You have crossed my path, You will never be forgotten......


EMAIL ME for GON 2014 Special Hotel, Air, and Car Rates...limited availability. Powwow special rates across the US and Canada. I also offer great vacation, business, and specialty fares to every destination in the world! Email for the rates
[email protected]
Nezbah is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-24-2005, 11:29 PM   #16
Traditional Dancer
 
Cutbead Queen's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Cutbead Queen is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 93
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
BB: She shamelessly admitted to me that she took the picture's last year at GON because she and her daughter fell in love with the design on this ladies dress. Several photos are of this woman posing front and back....I bet if the woman posing knew what this lady had in mind at the time she would have never let her picture get taken in the first place.
She also admitted to me that she didn't know the woman. So I assumed then, that she didn't have permission to use her design and at that point my "RED FLAGS" where up. I then tried to explain the significance of my designs and that I was sure that the woman in the photographs would be damn pissed if she used her designs without her permission and I wanted no part of her project. If you can believe this, she then tried to pacify me by saying that it was for her daughters graduation gift this coming spring 2006 and would only be worn for graduation....not pow-wows. I'm sure she was convincing herself of this more then me after I scolded her. Regardless, it is just damn wrong and I know I have a clear consience, I hope she can say the same when she gives her daughter that graduation present next spring.
__________________
Where the spirit does not work with the hand there is no art." - Leonardo Da Vinci

"I found I could say things with my beads that I couldn't say any other way....things I had no words for" - Eva McAdams Eastern Shoshone
Cutbead Queen is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-25-2005, 05:09 AM   #17
Honey Connoissuer
 
Blackbear's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Blackbear has a reputation beyond repute
Blackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond reputeBlackbear has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Alaska
Posts: 9,817
Credits: 546.23
Savings: 1.00
Well then.. there you have it! ROFLMAO!! You did good!
__________________
Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.
Blackbear is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-25-2005, 05:24 AM   #18
Bear-y overprotective
 
Dakota Wica'hpi Ina's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Dakota Wica'hpi Ina has a brilliant futureDakota Wica'hpi Ina has a brilliant futureDakota Wica'hpi Ina has a brilliant futureDakota Wica'hpi Ina has a brilliant futureDakota Wica'hpi Ina has a brilliant futureDakota Wica'hpi Ina has a brilliant futureDakota Wica'hpi Ina has a brilliant futureDakota Wica'hpi Ina has a brilliant futureDakota Wica'hpi Ina has a brilliant futureDakota Wica'hpi Ina has a brilliant futureDakota Wica'hpi Ina has a brilliant future
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Where ever my work takes me
Posts: 834
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
I know copying someone's TM or work is wrong..

But if you had WRITTEN permission from the owner of the design ( or the person requesting the beadwork had permission) would you then have a problem??
Dakota Wica'hpi Ina is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-25-2005, 07:54 AM   #19
Junior Dancer
 
Mezzobean's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mezzobean has a spectacular aura about
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 249
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutbead Queen
If you can believe this, she then tried to pacify me by saying that it was for her daughters graduation gift this coming spring 2006 and would only be worn for graduation....not pow-wows.
Gee, am I a cynic or does anyone else have a problem believing THAT?!?! She steals a design, pays someone to make it up and gives it to her daughter who wears it for graduation and then NEVER,EVER takes it out to PowWow? Yeah, right.

Well, we've all said it, but Cutbead Queen, ya did GOOD!
Mezzobean is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-25-2005, 12:40 PM   #20
is waiting ....
 
chazziff's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
chazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond repute
chazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond reputechazziff has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,103
Credits: 374.00
Savings: 1.00
this one time i made these series of earrings - same general shape on all of them but totally different designs and colors for all of them - around eight of them total. i totally hate "cookie cutter" earrings - same design but different colors but thats another issue. i figure if you're gonna pay X amount of money for something it should be unique - if not it should be a lower price.

but this woman asked me when she bought them if should could use the general idea (colors/design) for a fancy dance outfit for her daughter - i saw no problem with it and said she could. she did a good job - i might mention...

but i too have seen people that have the exact same design - same colors but different families...

i know of this one woman who was asked to make a full beaded woman's northern traditional regalia for this one woman. well she made the outfit soo when it came time to pay the woman just gave excuse after excuse. so then this woman decides to make a series of regalia - the same design - same colors and sell them. well they sold and now the original woman doesn't wear hers anymore because there are like three or four outfits out there exactly with the same "theme" as hers. who would WANT to buy regalia exactly the same as other peoples?
__________________
Watch your broken dreams...
Dance in and out of the beams of a neon moon
chazziff is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
other styles of beading napesne Crafts 8 02-21-2003 08:58 PM
beading fancystar_147 Fancy Shawl Dancing 2 07-20-2002 05:33 PM
beading moccs with 13/0's Suzizila Crafts 4 03-18-2002 12:26 AM
beading moc tops Blackbear Crafts 2 10-02-2001 12:56 AM
Prob with beading..... MissTlingitAchievement Crafts 8 09-07-2001 09:48 PM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery