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Old 06-30-2005, 06:56 PM   #101
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A few questions So where do you buy dowels from? Anyone know of good places to buy supplies in Canada? Do you think those kits are a good deal to get or just buy seperately? After you mount the hackles and such...for the rest of the dowel is that where you make a design with tape? Thanks!
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Old 07-01-2005, 12:02 AM   #102
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lotsa questions

Boozhoo niji,

I see a lot of questions on here, so I will try to apply my experience as best as I can.




Hello, all

I was wondering if any of you would have any ideas on how to construct the the base boards for the bustle. A little new at the game and any help would be appreciated. One of my sons wants to go to fancy dance from grass dance. So this is all new to me. If any of you have any good picture designs or any fine detail on how to do this. please reply. Thank you.

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For starters, the best material to use is plexiglass, 1/4 inch thick. Its not indestructable but its a good start. Make the shape likea trapaziod, a square larger on the top edge and smaller on the bottom edge, make two of these, one for each bustle, about 7 inches tall and 6 inches wide at the topand 5 at the bottom. for the neck make a hole in each corner, about 3/4 of an inch big enough for silk scarves to tie on, these you will tie around your neck, shoulders or whatever. For the back bustle you can either use a belt or Ilike to use leather ties, they are easy to replace if they break. use 1/4 inch holes for these and all other holes. You have to figure how you keep the bustles upright, I use !/4 inch steel dowel, bent into a v shape, but the shape is more complicated than that, will have to try to take a pic later.

You need two holes about one inch apart in the center, to hold your center cone and rosette in the middle, and then three holes shaped like a v two on top, one on bottom. The spacing for these is important, and dependent on how many feathers you have you string the ends and measure the length, and space the holes out according to that. Theres not too much more than that.

For mine I used plywood, and leather for the base, and its a much more complicated design that what I just posted. I would rather show it to you and talk about it, than try to describe it here.

...

A few questions So where do you buy dowels from? Anyone know of good places to buy supplies in Canada? Do you think those kits are a good deal to get or just buy seperately? After you mount the hackles and such...for the rest of the dowel is that where you make a design with tape? Thanks!

Get dowels from the local DIY (do it yourself) store, like home depot. I call them do it yourself, cause you got to look for stuff yourself, and inthe new stores down here, even check it out and pay for it yourself, bag it yourself, etc. lol. Anyway, look in the wood section where you find trim, and molding and stuff. Also try wal mart, and ace hardware if they got those in Canada. If you are really new to making the bustles, then the kits are not a bad idea, also get the book, Fancy Dancign, from Crazy Crow, it has a better set of instructions than what you get in the kit. Also dont use the leather fort he quill loops provided in the kit. See if you can get your hands on some rawhide instead. The leather tends to rot, when you sweat on it, will only last a little over a year.

OK the hackle rows go on the tips, either two or three rows, and you might want to have another row of hackles at the base of the feather. Yes the tape pattern goes onthe dowel, and also whatever of the quill exists. You are just going to ahve to mess around with these, I preassembled my bustles, and then spray painted a thunder bolt on there, then wrapped over that pattern with thread to make my design. You might want to lay out your design in a similar way./

Derek
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Old 07-01-2005, 02:15 PM   #103
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Question Ok..Getting the Idea

Hello,

Thanks for the information on that ...would be great to see your pic. of it to make sure im on the right track, thanks..not sure what your talking about on the center cone part...something like a spreader type thing or the rossette is the spreader. not sure, but correct me if im wrong..thanks. oh and another thing are the feathers each going to have a hole in the base board?...well fill me in as i go along.

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Old 07-01-2005, 10:54 PM   #104
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pics later this weekend

Boozhoo niji,

No there is not a hole in each feather, there are a couple of ways to do this, I am just going to have to take the pictures this weekend and somehow post them on here, maybe just upload to the crafts gallery here on pw.com.

Derek
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Old 07-21-2005, 04:29 PM   #105
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Question CrazyWolf

hello,

was wondering on those pictures you were talking about... still a little in the dark on the base board construction thing. but when ever you get the chance, please post a reply. thanx

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Old 07-21-2005, 09:11 PM   #106
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forgot about it

Boozhoo niji,

I totally forgot all about it man, its been pretty hectic around here for the past two weeks. Thanks for reminding me about it though. I should get something this weekend for you pretty quick.

Derek
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Old 07-25-2005, 12:54 AM   #107
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bustle pictures

Boozhoo niji,

I kinda did this in a hurry, so I hope it works, here are links to pics I took of my bustle. Its the back bustle. The neck bustle is made totally different, and it would be a lot harder to make. This is simpler. When making the neck bustle, look at the board on this one, you will see four leather thongs comming off the sides, and that is how I tie it around my waist. For the next, dont use those holes, instead drill four large holes at the corners, where you will tie on scarves. I reccomend silk for that.

That is all I can write rightnow, am tired. If you have any questions of if the links dont work, post it hear and I will try to fix it.

Derek




http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group...src=gr&.view=t

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group...src=gr&.view=t

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group...src=gr&.view=t

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group...src=gr&.view=t

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group...src=gr&.view=t

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group...src=gr&.view=t
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Old 07-25-2005, 02:55 PM   #108
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I couldn't get the pics to come up crazywolf...
first I had to login into Yahoo.. then I got this error message ....

Error
GROUP_CHECK
gpg10.bc.scd.yahoo.com:GROUP_CHECK
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Old 07-25-2005, 09:31 PM   #109
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new links

Boozhoo niji,

ok these better work


http://crazywolf.home.mindspring.com...tlepics043.jpg

http://crazywolf.home.mindspring.com...tlepics044.jpg

http://crazywolf.home.mindspring.com...tlepics047.jpg

http://crazywolf.home.mindspring.com...tlepics048.jpg

http://crazywolf.home.mindspring.com...tlepics049.jpg

http://crazywolf.home.mindspring.com...tlepics050.jpg

I dont really like posting to yahoo because sometimes it works,and then it never works. Those are on my webspace so they better work.

Derek

ok they work, I checked them all, aint technology grand?

Last edited by crazywolf; 07-25-2005 at 09:35 PM.. Reason: double checking
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Old 07-26-2005, 11:33 AM   #110
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazywolf
I dont really like posting to yahoo because sometimes it works,and then it never works. Those are on my webspace so they better work.

Derek

ok they work, I checked them all, aint technology grand?
nice pics
thanks for sharing

I have the same problems with Yahoo too, except when my server was down for a day, Yahoo worked for me (surprise)....usually I have to go to one of my satellite sites and make a whole page (...happened when I was making a beadwork thread)
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Old 03-20-2006, 06:32 PM   #111
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how come some top bustles fan upward and some fan straight back?also how do you make them to where they fan upward?
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:42 PM   #112
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Rigging

Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyfeather9510
how come some top bustles fan upward and some fan straight back?also how do you make them to where they fan upward?
It is all in how you attach the bottom of the spikes to the backboard. Different dancers will "Rig" different ways depending on how he likes it. The smaller the center piece is, the more butterfly effect you'll get, generally speaking. If your center piece is to large, the feathers will be to stiff. Talk to some of your local dancers from your tribe, they may have ways they can show you hands on, better than typing.

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Old 03-21-2006, 03:31 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyfeather9510
how come some top bustles fan upward and some fan straight back?also how do you make them to where they fan upward?
i mean like the spikes point up not backward example: the top one that im wearing points back and sum1 like spike drappers points up some
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Old 03-21-2006, 06:07 PM   #114
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No offence, but I've been confused ever since you started typing. I think something is getting lost between the lexicon that most of us use and the description you are giving. I think you will need to post some photos or cite some images from the gallery to help us understand.
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Old 03-21-2006, 07:22 PM   #115
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ok now the top bustle that im wearing(my picture/avatar) points back like the bottom 1

http://www.powwows.com/galleries/sho...me=999&way=asc

but the 1 that this man is wearing is tilted upward unlike the 1 that im wearing. so how do u make the difference?
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:57 PM   #116
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OK, now I gotcha!

A couple things. First off is that the bustle needs to be made correctly with the right amount of cup to the bustle shape. Your photo appears to be too flat. You need to do two things, 1-tighten the bridle string and 2-adjust the uprights that you tie the bridle to (closer together and pointing outward more.)

This effect really comes more from HOW you wear your bustle than how it is made. The guy in the photo has the bustle tied as high as possible up on his back/neck. The smaller the bustle board the higher you will be able to get the bustle. There is probably no tie cord on the bottom of the board either, so the board only touches his body at the top edge and the bottom sticks out a little, this naturally points the feathers more upwards.

I think you picked two pretty extreme examples of bustles. I see lots of young guys wearing the top bustle down low like you. Work on getting that puppy way up high. I've had dozens of tourists at powwows ask me what kind of "headdress" I was wearing with all the feathers. They were referring to my bustle tied so high. The top feathers kinda encompass your head. Makes all the difference in your overall look.

Last edited by BeadMan; 03-23-2006 at 01:55 AM..
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:58 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeadMan
OK, now I gotcha!

A couple things. First off is that the bustle needs to be made correctly with the right amount of cup to the bustle shape. Your photo appears to be too flat. You need to do two things, 1-tighten the bridal string and 2-adjust the uprights that you tie the bridal to (closer together and pointing outward more.)

This effect really comes more from HOW you wear your bustle than how it is made. The guy in the photo has the bustle tied as high as possible up on his back/neck. The smaller the bustle board the higher you will be able to get the bustle. There is probably no tie cord on the bottom of the board either, so the board only touches his body at the top edge and the bottom sticks out a little, this naturally points the feathers more upwards.

I think you picked two pretty extreme examples of bustles. I see lots of young guys wearing the top bustle down low like you. Work on getting that puppy way up high. I've had dozens of tourists at powwows ask me what kind of "headdress" I was wearing with all the feathers. They were referring to my bustle tied so high. The top feathers kinda encompass your head. Makes all the difference in your overall look.
thanks beadman! ill try that.
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:45 PM   #118
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construction techniques and clarifications

Boozhoo niji,

Beadman I have a aquestion for you. I think I know what you are talking about when you say "bridal" string. Do you mean the string that goes through all the feathers and has all the beads in it? I have been told and always referred to it as the leader string.

Fancy feather, the shape of your bustle (flat or cupped) depends on how long that bridal (lead) string is, how many feathers you have in the bustle and how many beads are spaced inbetween the feathers. It also depends on how far out that string is from the base (distace between the quill loop and the hole drilled in the shaft for this string to go through) That distance should be consistant throughout both of your bustles or they will look funky.

What you gotta figure out is how big you want your bustles, that will more or less determine the overall quill length. Once you have that figured, then you can guess how many spikes to use per bustle. 36 is a good minimum for both bustles, but I have heard of more, and less being used in the neck bustle than the back bustle. I have heard of combinations like 40/50 and such. When you get your number, make your feathers and base board, then you have to experiment with how many beads to use.

Finally, dont use glass beads unless you want to take the time with a dremel anda diamond bit to drill out the holes.

Finally, when you get the shape, there is the matter of the uprights. I have seen a lot of dancers use nothing more than bent coathangers, short and flexable. I like things durable, and opted for 3/16" steal rod. Its stiffer, but holds its shape once its adjusted. whatever you use, assemble the bustle, then bend the uprights to make the bustle hang the way you want. And beadman is right... you have to wear it on the back of your neck to get it propped up like in that photo, and also to keep the two bustles apart while you dance. If they touch when you are standing still, chances are you are gonna break something when you dance. Also having on your neck will give your bustle more movement. I tie mine around my neck and shoulders, and I can rock it pretty good by rolling my shoulders.

Derek
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Old 03-23-2006, 02:08 AM   #119
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Oh how Embarrasing!

I didn't mean "bridal" You probbably thought I was giving advice on a wedding dress. hehe I meant "bridle" as in a cord,rope, or chain that is used to control something. Think of a bridle on a horse, it controlls the head and stearing (for the most part) I've gone back and changed my post.

Whatever you call it, yea its the secondary cord that runs through the feather quill, I highly recomend that you do not drill through the extender but run directly through the quill of the feather, usually about 2-3 inches above where the base hackles are tied.

He may be "Crazy" but I agree that the uprights should be more than coat hanger. I don't know what I have it was in my dad's garage, but it sure does the trick. If you don't have to use heavy tools to bend it around, it isn't strong enough. Also, the shorter they are the stronger they will be, that's about all I remember from High School physics. Apparently I don't remember much from English class either!
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Old 03-23-2006, 11:33 AM   #120
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Hmm, now I'm begining to question your MA in BS...



edit: FYI - my top bustle is hitched to a dog collar that doubles as my choker.

Last edited by sookout sh'nob; 03-24-2006 at 08:41 PM..
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