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View Poll Results: Women at the drum
Yes. I support women who sing at the drum 107 47.14%
No. I do not support women who sing at the drum 120 52.86%
Voters: 227. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-12-2004, 04:55 PM   #1
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Question All Women Drum Groups

Do you support women who form All Women Drum Groups?


:Thumbs YES:
Women have always used different types of drums in their women's ceremonies. Powwow is a contemporary expression of Indian culture so all women drum groups should be allowed. Women are able to sing just as good as men. Like the "fancy shawl dance," all women drum groups are an expression of individuality in modern society. I support women who sing at the drum and all women drum groups.


OR

:NoNo NO:
Women have no right to beat the drum with a drumstick. This is not a traditional expression and women who do are wrong. A women's place is behind the men singers. Several traditional beliefs are broken when women sing on the drum. This is just plain wrong - pure and simple. I will not support or condone women who sing at the drum.
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:43 PM   #2
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Yeah sure....specially if Charlotte Church is the lead singer. HAHAHA!!!!
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Old 05-13-2004, 01:03 AM   #3
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Gawiin here and in German Nien here too.
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Old 05-14-2004, 03:22 PM   #4
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After checking the poll, an overwhelming majority of pws.com readers DO NOT support women singing at the drum.
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:03 PM   #5
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Can anyone explain...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
After checking the poll, an overwhelming majority of pws.com readers DO NOT support women singing at the drum.
Sandra Black Bear (Ironwood)

Howard Bad Hand's wife (Red Leaf Takoja)

Little Boy Singers

Cathedral Lakes

Remember Snake River?

I can name some more, but folks just know I like to rock the boat..........
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:21 PM   #6
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The greatest drum group I've ever witnessed was comprised of all women...(sadly, I can't remember their name...but they drummed at the Yarema's Lake powwow 4 or 5 maybe 6 yrs ago...if it was you you rule!) and they had the best 49's ever. Really humorous. Anyway, I support it totally and I may be setting myself up for attack here, but I think that traditions do have to evolve just like everything around them. Now I'm not saying we should ditch old ways by any means, but we're not living in the past and as someone mentioned earlier powwows are a realitively new tradition themselves. Augmentations and exception are perfectly acceptable within reason and even necessary on occaision.

Ladies, if you're out there drumming, keep it up.

...and if you need some help from another ambitious lady I'm right here.

:clapping: :Thumbs
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:21 PM   #7
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Old 05-16-2004, 11:13 PM   #8
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Gawiin. :NoNo

Our Ojibway tradition is to sing behind the men, not at the drum. Woodland Anishnabe Ikwe do not sit around the drum and sing as the men do. There is a story, a teaching of very old that we have within our nation regarding this.
I don't want to put it here though.
I understand there are tribes who do this, and that is fine and can respect that. I am only talking for my tribe. However even within my tribe there are females who do this. To me we have our traditions that was given to us since the Creator put us here on his earth. That drum story is an original teaching and to me, is not to be changed. Why change an original teaching that was given to us by the Creator? We have to keep those traditions alive and well. :)
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Old 05-17-2004, 11:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojibwaysweetie
Gawiin. :NoNo

Our Ojibway tradition is to sing behind the men, not at the drum. Woodland Anishnabe Ikwe do not sit around the drum and sing as the men do. There is a story, a teaching of very old that we have within our nation regarding this.
I don't want to put it here though.
I understand there are tribes who do this, and that is fine and can respect that. I am only talking for my tribe. However even within my tribe there are females who do this. To me we have our traditions that was given to us since the Creator put us here on his earth. That drum story is an original teaching and to me, is not to be changed. Why change an original teaching that was given to us by the Creator? We have to keep those traditions alive and well. :)

*agrees with Sweetie*
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Old 05-19-2004, 03:03 PM   #10
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I don't support or disagree with women who sing at the drum. I am left to let the woman or women singers to leave that decision for themselves. However when women decide to come and sing at my drum I ask them to not hit the drum. The only thing i tell women is think about it before you start to sing on a drum.

The reason i prefer women not to sing with my drum is that the drum represents the Heartbeat of Mother Earth, and Mother Earth is also the representative for women, and mothers. The drumsticks used to sound the drum represent the manhood of a male. And when the drum is sounded it represents the heartbeats of both the male and female in performing consumation (sex). So when a lady sounds or hits the drum it literally represents homosexuallity.

For those women singers reading this, keep doing what you do if you feel it is appropriate and that what you do is a good thing out of intention. Don't be discouraged by believing in yourself.

Sing on any drum you are permitted but none of mine.
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Old 05-19-2004, 04:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaggin_NDN

The reason i prefer women not to sing with my drum is that the drum represents the Heartbeat of Mother Earth, and Mother Earth is also the representative for women, and mothers. The drumsticks used to sound the drum represent the manhood of a male. And when the drum is sounded it represents the heartbeats of both the male and female in performing consumation (sex). So when a lady sounds or hits the drum it literally represents homosexuallity.
.
___

Snaggin:

I have heard of the drum representing both male and female genders. I have also heard about the drumstick. But I never have heard about them doing "the knock, knock dance" when meeting. Is this a Cree thing?

Every tribe believes differently about the spirit of the drum and its symbolism. It is interesting to learn different beliefs concerning the drum.
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Old 05-19-2004, 05:49 PM   #12
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Geez.....

I've heard it all now...

I'll remain the fly on the wall......This is too much...He was on a roll then had to dive right off the deep end.........wongeh
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:00 PM   #13
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I'm with Ojibwaysweetie on this one.

I dont' know about this one....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaggin_NDN
The drumsticks used to sound the drum represent the manhood of a male. And when the drum is sounded it represents the heartbeats of both the male and female in performing consumation (sex). So when a lady sounds or hits the drum it literally represents homosexuallity.
.
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_HULK
I'm with Ojibwaysweetie on this one.

I dont' know about this one....
He's with me he's with mee he's with meeeeeeee!! :blow: :blow:


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Old 05-20-2004, 03:36 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=WhoMe]___

I have heard of the drum representing both male and female genders. I have also heard about the drumstick. But I never have heard about them doing "the knock, knock dance" when meeting. Is this a Cree thing?QUOTE]


i have not the slightest idea of what you're talking about?:Eyepopper
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Old 05-20-2004, 05:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaggin_NDN

i have not the slightest idea of what you're talking about?:Eyepopper
___

Snaggin:

In other words . . .

I just have never heard the story of a drum and drumstick snaggin' each other before. Is this a Cree thing?
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Old 05-31-2004, 03:02 PM   #17
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wmn singers

in manitoba there are alot of women drum groups coming out. and lately i been asking myself should women sing at the drum but i guess where it has found me contemplating is as well considering the fact that it wasnt too long ago that wmn dancers were not allowed in the powwow circle.

i was watching an interview (i think it was on the powwow trail) they interviewed a lady from the crow reservation. and she said when she started around the 1940s shawlin, that was not accepted. she specifically said that different items like rocks and shoes were thrown at them when they first started dancing.

So historically speaking, the participation of women in powwows has come a long but in my perspective has a long ways to go. like what the powwows original purpose? what did our ancestors really anticipate with this gathering? and whos really to say who can or cannot dance or sing? i guess these are the fundamental questions that we must ask ourselves...personally i believe every tribe has their own unique ways of doing things and whos the say what is right and what is wrong?
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Old 06-08-2004, 01:01 PM   #18
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Your mixing apples and oranges......

Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyFemale49
in manitoba there are alot of women drum groups coming out. and lately i been asking myself should women sing at the drum but i guess where it has found me contemplating is as well considering the fact that it wasnt too long ago that wmn dancers were not allowed in the powwow circle.

i was watching an interview (i think it was on the powwow trail) they interviewed a lady from the crow reservation. and she said when she started around the 1940s shawlin, that was not accepted. she specifically said that different items like rocks and shoes were thrown at them when they first started dancing.

So historically speaking, the participation of women in powwows has come a long but in my perspective has a long ways to go. like what the powwows original purpose? what did our ancestors really anticipate with this gathering? and whos really to say who can or cannot dance or sing? i guess these are the fundamental questions that we must ask ourselves...personally i believe every tribe has their own unique ways of doing things and whos the say what is right and what is wrong?
Now i'm not trying to raz you either....

However i'm still going to point out groups like Ironwood, Red Leaf Takoja, and Little Boy.......
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Old 06-08-2004, 05:25 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by FancyFemale49
in manitoba there are alot of women drum groups coming out. and lately i been asking myself should women sing at the drum but i guess where it has found me contemplating is as well considering the fact that it wasnt too long ago that wmn dancers were not allowed in the powwow circle.

i was watching an interview (i think it was on the powwow trail) they interviewed a lady from the crow reservation. and she said when she started around the 1940s shawlin, that was not accepted. she specifically said that different items like rocks and shoes were thrown at them when they first started dancing.

So historically speaking, the participation of women in powwows has come a long but in my perspective has a long ways to go. like what the powwows original purpose? what did our ancestors really anticipate with this gathering? and whos really to say who can or cannot dance or sing? i guess these are the fundamental questions that we must ask ourselves...personally i believe every tribe has their own unique ways of doing things and whos the say what is right and what is wrong?

I totally agree with you
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Old 06-09-2004, 04:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ojibwaysweetie
Gawiin. :NoNo

Our Ojibway tradition is to sing behind the men, not at the drum. Woodland Anishnabe Ikwe do not sit around the drum and sing as the men do. There is a story, a teaching of very old that we have within our nation regarding this.
I don't want to put it here though.
I understand there are tribes who do this, and that is fine and can respect that. I am only talking for my tribe. However even within my tribe there are females who do this. To me we have our traditions that was given to us since the Creator put us here on his earth. That drum story is an original teaching and to me, is not to be changed. Why change an original teaching that was given to us by the Creator? We have to keep those traditions alive and well. :)

I agree with sweetie too.
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