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View Poll Results: Women at the drum
Yes. I support women who sing at the drum 107 47.14%
No. I do not support women who sing at the drum 120 52.86%
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Old 06-10-2004, 10:13 AM   #21
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I have to disagree with you on this one Ojisweety. Although I totally agree with most of your posts this one I have a different opinion.

The big drum isnt traditionally Anishinabe, Im sure most of you know this. Anyways the drum was shared with teh Anishinabe by the Sioux (pardon my choice of words). The Anishinaabe used it the way they saw fit, they customized it to be Anishinaabe by adding the drum stand with four posts etc, etc, etc,

My point being if we really want to be traditional we shoudl look at ourselves in a holistic point of view. Look at the materials we use today look at the songs that the tribes have shared with eachother. Our culture is one of sharing and evolving, this is just merely a part of the road we walk.
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:40 AM   #22
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absolutely nope!!!... think of it this way...women have moons (well not all women in reguards towards those who are on menopause) and wuts happening their yar mixing those who are on their moon and those who aint..and that just aint done because those who are should never be at a drum or even nearby those who aren't on their moon...yes, powwows are contemporary today but ya got those that are tradish too don't forget that...but wether a powwow is contemporary or tradish those women are still on a drum....even when its on stage and not at a powwow ..women aren't to be on a drum because of our moon..
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:45 AM   #23
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many women before us has been happily singing behind our men, so why change? when exactly did this change ocurr?...
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Old 06-10-2004, 01:58 PM   #24
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With sweetie on this one yep! :42: Hi sweetie :Wave LOL
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Old 06-10-2004, 02:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidatsawmn26
many women before us has been happily singing behind our men, so why change? when exactly did this change ocurr?...
___

Hidatsa,

Women singers (singing leads and beating the drum with a drumstick) were first seen "in numbers" in the Northwest powwow circuit in the 1970's. In asking male singers of the Northwest if it was always this way their answer was "no, this is a fairly new trend."

When I say Northwest, I am speaking about the tribes in the states of Washington, Oregon and Idaho.
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Old 06-10-2004, 03:09 PM   #26
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I have to share some of what I know here...because it is a gift that i carry. I am the lead singer for the womens drum here in Sagkeeng and we take it all over. We go all over mostly in NW Ontario (LOTW area) because this is where we are welcomed. These are traditional people, they never close their door on us and welcome us like any real traditional community or area would.

We do not set up at Powwows or communities where it is not accepted. We always ask the old men on the traditional drums if we can set up and they share the story with the rest of the people there so there is an understanding.

I will share a lil story with you here about when we went to Eagle Lake, Ontario. Just last year was the first time we set up over there. We have been going there for a long time but this is the first time we set up over there. The first thing I did before we even took out our drum was we talked to the old men, the ones who carry traditional drums. I gave this old man tobacco and I asked him if we could set up, and he looked at me and he said to me " I should be giving you the tobacco, you are coming here to share a gift that you women have been given and we are honored that you have come to share it with our community."

This is traditional. None of those old men who carry the old teachings ever would ridicule us because of what we have.

There are other womens drum groups in this area, I will mention a few:
*Keesis Weyabb womens Drum (Sagkeeng First Nation)
*Red Drum Womens Society (Sandy Bay First Nation)
*Grassy Narrows Womens Drum (Grassy Narrows Oji Nation)
*White Turtle Womens Drum (Wpg)
*SweetGrass Road Womens Drum(Wpg)
*Eagle Lake womens drum(Wpg)
*Wanesa (Roseau River First Nation)

I dont belive that women singing on a drum is a bad thing, if it is then its just as bad as a women going into a sweat, or sundancing, or even dancing at a powwow.
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Old 06-10-2004, 04:18 PM   #27
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Wmn singers Pt.II

So in conclusion to the previous posts, I see that some ppl are against women singing at the drum. DOnt u worry about razzin out on me...everyone is entitled to their own opinion and life is what u make i guess. Personally, I agree with women singing at the drum because I have sang around the drum. Im focussing more on dancing & back up singing now. No particular reason just wanna focus on other things this summer.

Anyways back to matter at hand...Issues that I sense that are arising is 1)Women being on their moon time being around the drum 2)teachings (from previous posts)

But i have to ask yall somethin. HOW DO U THINK THOSE FANCY SHAWL DANCERS FELT LIKE WHEN THEY WAS GETTIN ROCKS AND SHOES THROWN AT THEM WHEN THE DANCE WAS FIRST INTRODUCED AT THE CROW RESERVATION???

What is the dancer's protocol for dancing on their moon time? I personally go my own families ceremonial ways and they always tell me not to dance or touch those eagle feathers when im on my moon time. Do all women dancers bide by this?

MY last question...if we are doing such a disrespect by sitting at the drum why is alcohol and drugs a big influence in the powwow world? I am not judging anybody or calling everyone drunks and druggies (cos i know sober ppl on the powwow trail) but I have seen it being part of the powwow trail singing and dancing. But honestly ppl there are more serious issues at hand.

Women singing at the drum is here and to be quite frank these posts are not going to change the emotion and experience of all women drummers out there. In my time singing, I always noticed there was always soo many children who came around the drum when we sang. ONe time we even got asked for our autographs. BUt what everyone should realize these are real people yall are condoning that have shared similar experiences to women dancers in the past. We had people in the crowd crying because they were so moved and our families and friends always happy to hear us.

POWER TO YA 2 ALL MY FELLOW DRUMMA SISTAZ

PS apples and oranges...hmmm they a fruit aint they....same size both come from trees...just different color LOL
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Old 06-12-2004, 11:26 AM   #28
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i see where you're coming from (in pertaining to last post) and you're right ...it's just i think that many nations have different ways of percieveing things...many ppl including myself believe you shouldn't change tradishion but on the other hand some changes are good it just all depedns. i'm personally glad you firmly stand strong to your opinions and ya should keep on doing that because that defines you..and your right about some male singers being on drugs and alcohol ....thats not the type of lifestyle as a singer they are suppose to be leading...maybe those after partys at powwows has alot to do with it...
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Old 06-12-2004, 02:10 PM   #29
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Somebody may have already made this point already, but I'm just to damn lazy to read everyone elses reply's right now *its been a long day*

I myself was in an all womens drum group my senior year *Blue Star Singers* and we performed at various functions and such. It was quite an experience, we respected the drum and the songs that we learned, and we got alot of support from both Male and Female elders who taught us songs and gave us good advice.

I totally support female drum groups, heck, if Creator blessed ya with the voice for it, use it. Aint no one here without fault, and traditions have been continuously twisted and tainted anyways, its really hard to say whats right and whats wrong these days.
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Old 06-12-2004, 10:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleclan22
I have to disagree with you on this one Ojisweety. Although I totally agree with most of your posts this one I have a different opinion.

The big drum isnt traditionally Anishinabe, Im sure most of you know this. Anyways the drum was shared with teh Anishinabe by the Sioux (pardon my choice of words). The Anishinaabe used it the way they saw fit, they customized it to be Anishinaabe by adding the drum stand with four posts etc, etc, etc,

My point being if we really want to be traditional we shoudl look at ourselves in a holistic point of view. Look at the materials we use today look at the songs that the tribes have shared with eachother. Our culture is one of sharing and evolving, this is just merely a part of the road we walk.
I have talked to elders there too. And I conclude there are differences in our Ojib teachings from my area to there. And I am not saying that is not wrong, it is only different. I was most surprised that some elders up that way allow women in sweats on their moon and some felt it is okay to attend ceremonies at that time of the month. However that is a different issue, but I was making a statement of the difference in beliefs even among our Anishnabe people. Here we were brought up with the traditional drum story. (ain't gettin into it here though) in which we believe was given to us as an original instruction by Kitche Manidoo furthermore we believe it is not right to change that. The only one has the right to change it, is the one who has given it. So, here in my neck of da woods, we stick to that and will remain that way with our women. Maybe he has given your anishnabe people a different teaching. Who knows.

As for the drug and alcohol issue...those very singers know it is wrong. Only they can make a decision to stop it. We believe here that even alcohol has a spirit, a bad one. And when it is brought around our sacred things there is a clashing. It is sad when a rude awakening has to happen first. Life is all about choices they say.
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Old 06-13-2004, 05:13 PM   #31
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"I was most surprised that some elders up that way allow women in sweats on their moon and some felt it is okay to attend ceremonies at that time of the month. However that is a different issue, but I was making a statement of the difference in beliefs even among our Anishnabe people."
-Ojisweety-

Holy smokers eh? I never heard of that before. I respect what you say Ojisweety. That hasnt changed over here, women on their time stay far away from ceremonies dancing and being in the powwow dance area here (etc)

I felt like it was an opportunity for myself as a woman who carrys a drum to share a bit of enlightenment. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion I belive, however one should not pass judgement on anothers gifts... (not that you or anyone else has here, just saying it b.c thats how I feel) :)
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Old 06-20-2004, 04:03 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
After checking the poll, an overwhelming majority of pws.com readers DO NOT support women singing at the drum.
me toooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-28-2004, 04:08 PM   #33
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"The drum was a gift given to men by women and we honored them with that. We women are taking back the drum." quoting what these ears has heard up here.

We might just do that...what a good way to fund raise for our communities childrens programs.
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Old 07-06-2004, 07:22 PM   #34
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I'm Pro-Choice

It's a woman's decision to make. There are nations out there that allow women to sit at a drum. Couer d'alene for example allows women to sing at the drum and it goes way back to when a woman from that tribe proved herself as a warrior.

(somebody said women singing at the drum in the northwest is a fairly new trend...ahhh...check your sources...it goes way back)
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Old 07-06-2004, 07:46 PM   #35
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that's cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
___

Hidatsa,

Women singers (singing leads and beating the drum with a drumstick) were first seen "in numbers" in the Northwest powwow circuit in the 1970's. In asking male singers of the Northwest if it was always this way their answer was "no, this is a fairly new trend."

When I say Northwest, I am speaking about the tribes in the states of Washington, Oregon and Idaho.
Well, that's cool that you got some male singers opinions BUT what did the women singers from the northwest say? I know a lot of woman singers from the northwest that would disagree with those men.

There are some dances from around the plateau that use to be very popular at powwows way before 1970's. . .and ONLY women were alowed to sing the songs that went with the dances. Women singing at the drum is nothing new in the northwest.:)
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Old 07-09-2004, 04:47 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uw_n8iv
Well, that's cool that you got some male singers opinions BUT what did the women singers from the northwest say? I know a lot of woman singers from the northwest that would disagree with those men.

There are some dances from around the plateau that use to be very popular at powwows way before 1970's. . .and ONLY women were alowed to sing the songs that went with the dances. Women singing at the drum is nothing new in the northwest.:)
__

uw8v:

I guess I need to get more specific. What I am referring to are women singers around the "big drum" at powwows. Many tribes across the U.S. and Canada have women societies and clans where women sang.
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Old 07-09-2004, 05:07 PM   #37
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On the Spokane rez in WA women are generally accepted at the drum, however, a few years back, one of the local elders was saying that he remembered when women were not allowed at the drum.
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Old 07-29-2004, 12:26 AM   #38
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I vote yes..

I've seen a few all women drum groups playing together on a large drum. It's great and I don't see any problems with it.

I play the hand drum with a group of 8 other women... we loves singing!! :D
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Old 07-29-2004, 01:25 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojibwaysweetie
I have talked to elders there too. And I conclude there are differences in our Ojib teachings from my area to there. And I am not saying that is not wrong, it is only different. I was most surprised that some elders up that way allow women in sweats on their moon and some felt it is okay to attend ceremonies at that time of the month. However that is a different issue, but I was making a statement of the difference in beliefs even among our Anishnabe people. Here we were brought up with the traditional drum story. (ain't gettin into it here though) in which we believe was given to us as an original instruction by Kitche Manidoo furthermore we believe it is not right to change that. The only one has the right to change it, is the one who has given it. So, here in my neck of da woods, we stick to that and will remain that way with our women. Maybe he has given your anishnabe people a different teaching. Who knows.

As for the drug and alcohol issue...those very singers know it is wrong. Only they can make a decision to stop it. We believe here that even alcohol has a spirit, a bad one. And when it is brought around our sacred things there is a clashing. It is sad when a rude awakening has to happen first. Life is all about choices they say.
None of the elders - male or female - that I know and know of allow women on their moon to be at sweats or ceremonies.

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Old 07-31-2004, 12:28 PM   #40
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Heart of the Great Lakes, Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singing Eagle
None of the elders - male or female - that I know and know of allow women on their moon to be at sweats or ceremonies.

I'll pm you on this one, SE.
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"Gaa wiin daa-aangoshkigaazo ahaw enaabiyaan gaa-inaabid"

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